"But don’t mistake Trump’s and Noem’s stupidity for harmlessness." In fact this makes them more dangerous especially when combined with their evil souls. We need to get rid of them ASAP!
This sort of thing also shows tremendous fear by the authorities. A confident tyrant does not worry about complaints. They believe in themselves and know their power base is secure, and if people grumble at least they have an outlet. A good example is Friedrich William I, an 18th century king of Prussia. One day when riding he saw a poster calling him a dictator and listing what he had done to deserve that title. He carefully read it and then ordered his soldiers to take this down...and put it closer to the ground where people on foot could easily see it too. Can you imagine anyone at the top levels of the Trump or Netanyahu administrations having that kind of self-confidence and humor?
With regard to your question: "When Did Words become a Crime?" Thoughts being criminal goes back at least to the founding of Christianity. You didn't have to do anything to sin, just think about it.
Brutality is fierce, conflicted discrimination meant to cower the offender. We are seeing this now, done by ghosts with usually no ID, no affiliation. Sometimes, as w/Padlilla, a gracious man, the IDs are obvious, having ben part of the setup for the Black Widow's next dog murder. Individually, this is nerve shattering and cathartic. But without catharsis, most 'murkans feel little, if anything, so numbed have they become via digital illusions and addictions. As much as I would wish that no person, ever, anywhere, being subjected to menacing intimidation and harm, it is apparent that without these incidents, including the remorseless murders of two real persons in MN, and the wounding of another and the huge fallout to their families and friends, the catharses needed to become 'woke' to reality will end in the enslavement of 80 percent of the 'murkan population. Now we have witnessed, for 3 years, the horrors of Ukraine and Gaza. Some smoke, some noise, some defiance, followed by almost instant subjugation.
'murkans are largely numb, stressed out, dumbed down, drugged up, malnourished, deceived, deluded, intimidated, coerced, threatened, lied to 60/60/24/7/365. Tight enough for your whities? 5% of dedicated resistance will destroy this stupid, inept, nasty, infighting, jealous, whimpering cabal. But they have to FEEL IT, in their bones and nervous systems. We must, as citizens, take charge of protecting each other and those public servants, like judges and political servants, and appointed servants, with boots on the ground surrounding them. I have no power, no influence, no money, no agency. But I have these words. Cannot 300 million humans get some shit together to save their sorry asses, as a GROUP? Just sayin.'
'Tis odd that this excellent treatise by a man I deeply respect deals with verbotten verbiage. Because, you see, this geopolitical revolt (and that IS WHAT IT IS) boils down to the global majority having said "Basta" to white supremacy. Given that I have the rather mild intellect to decipher the obvious, your observation so diplomatically articulated is ironclad truth.
However being the cretin that is I, allow me break it down for the rest of us dullards: until the world's minority (the so-called "white" European) sees its children die, its cities bombed, police (as in police-y) gun down its citizens, its economy devastated it will continue to ride the tiger.
Problem with riding a tiger is that if you get off...it will eat you.
Dwell, ruminate, cogitate and contemplate so that you might, in the end, compensate as you will...one way or another.
My southern French European heritage, with some Polish and Scandanavian thrown in, has a long memory. Killers and slaughtered, within generations of each other. Turmoil, fear, terror, confusion, desperation, laced with vignettes of peaceful times, some blessed comfort here and there, some gleaning awareness of better ways to do old behaviors. Kenyatta, I have heard your words for years with Thom, always prescient and calmingly raw. The mostly melanin-less ethnicity of 'murka has yet to catch up to what has been transpiring for centuries around them, and in their midst. Denial is a bastard son of fear. It salts old wounds, evincing paranoia in the cortex, and the drama-trauma of norepinephrine boils hot in the blood, waiting for its dopamine cleanse. I have luckily had chances to meet my personal tigers, plural, and find that they are the least desirable of transporting savagery. They only eat when hungry, a dignified behavior all know of. I have often said, to voices filled with chagrin or worse, that being white skinned is a curse waiting to be exorcized, a demon that need not be carried like a sack of old bones. I do feel, and experience, that many of my bloodline have discarded this sack, and wish to bury the bones with some sense of sorrow and remorse. Right now, would be as good a time as any, que no?
Some are. 18 U.S.C. § 2385 - Advocating Overthrow of Government:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof--
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
.
This section prohibits knowingly or willfully advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government by force or violence.
It also covers publishing or distributing materials that advocate such actions.
Furthermore, it prohibits organizing or being a member of any group that advocates the violent overthrow of the government.
Penalties for violations can include fines and imprisonment.
Apparently, one of the main goals of DOGE was the compilation of a database on every American. Some very busy souls have now compiled a database on everyone it seems, particularly those with any kind of a bully platform. Sadly, none of this is surprising in the context of authoritarian rule. What makes me sad is the image of an America debased, shabby, mediocre, unkempt, its citizens, to quote Goethe: troubled guests on a dark earth.
This is deja vu. E.G. After John Lennon moved to New York City in 1971, his criticism of the war and his activism led to a three-year deportation attempt by the Nixon administration. He was involved in a continuous legal battle with immigration authorities and was denied permanent residency in the US until 1976.
During the Cold War era, which encompassed the Vietnam War period, the US government used the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (also known as the McCarran-Walter Act) to exclude foreigners based on their political beliefs and affiliations deemed a threat to national security. This policy allowed for the exclusion of individuals associated with Communist or totalitarian parties or those whose entry could have "potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences" for the United States. The law was used as a political tool to deny visas to individuals suspected of promoting communism or other "subversive" views.
Graham Greene, also a brit, who I researched as a character in "Pitching Cuba", was a prolific writer, who was probably a British agent, was labelled as a commie. Greene was, in fact, briefly a member of the Communist Party when he was 19 years old. However, he left the party after a few weeks. Despite this, he was barred from entering the United States in 1952 during the height of the Red Scare, classified as "inadmissible to US because of membership in the Communist party of England". He was subsequently removed from the country. Documents indicate that his writing clearly demonstrated anti-communist sentiments, but the ban was based on his past affiliation. The State Department eventually recommended a waiver for him based on his prominence as an internationally known writer.
Mr. Solomon, I was expelled from the University of Michigan for my political views and from Central Michigan University for the same reason. My house and I were placed on a watch list by one of the intelligence agencies of the U.S. Government. I do not know for sure which intelligence agency; but I would bet it was military intelligence. My activities were repeatedly reported on by a particular agent whose first name was Richard, who was from Point Pleasant, New Jersey. I Knew him as Rich. He was employed by the military.
After I eventually graduated with a BA from Wayne State University; a truly liberal schooI, I was able get on with my education and my subsequent career as a professor. I was fired from my faculty position for political reasons and only got my job back because of the herculean efforts of the Michigan Education Association which won a grievance for me. I was the only faculty member in the U.S. [at that time] to ever gain tenure by winning a grievance.
How did I learn about the reasons for my educational difficulties? The Freedom Of Information Act and help from whistle blowers, one of whom was a member of the Michigan State Police Intelligence Agency. The head of the Michigan State police was one of those who was trying to silence me.
There is more to this story. But, enough for now. It is my final word here that I never advocated for overthrow of the U.S. Government. Never! My opinions were enough to get me into trouble.
When I was in Vietnam, my mother's close friend, a deacon in the Presbyterian church, wrote an anti war letter published by our local newspaper, and had a similar experience.
“The right to say wise things necessarily implies the right to say foolish things. The answer to foolish speech is wise speech and not force. The Republic is founded upon the faith that if the American people are permitted freely to hear foolish and wise speech, a majority will choose the wise. If that faith is not justified the Republic is based on sand.” Lincoln
It is the role of the educational system to create individuals, well rounded, who are able to discern truth from B.S. It is not happening, and I fear, has not happened for decades. That alone makes me pessimistic that we can halt this abridgement of our basic rights. It's like a rotting pier holding up a dock.
We always chuckled at Benjamin Franklin's response to Elizabeth Willing Powel's question: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" Answer, "A Republic if you can keep it"
It is slipping away, and it is so astounding that the Republicans are willing to be a party to this overthrow of our basic rights.
Free speech for me, but not for thee. And that has been the bete noire of the free speech movement, because it demands free speech for itself, but boycotts and cancels speech with which it disagrees.
On the other hand the 1st Amendment does not guarantee free speech or assembly, it simply says that congress shall make no law abridging the right, it places no restriction on any other person, party, company, organization, state, county, municipality.
I've been advocating that groups that advocate murdering other people should be outlawed. In Deutschland both the Nazi and Communist parties are verboten.
Actually, in general hate speech is protected by the First Amendment. If not, half of what Trump says would be a violation to say nothing of the right-wing blogosphere; much of theirs would be as well.
As fine as our American ideals may be, we have yet to reliably recognize & dismiss the false charges by those whose desire for more power, more money or just plain meanness makes a semantics mockery of any intelligent analysis of the meaning & use of words.
Personally I’ve always more concerned with the vulnerability of an audience than with the words of the speaker. In other words, I agree that we must do a much better job in teaching media literacy (which, under the current police state, would itself be seen as dangerous and inappropriate).
I’m not afraid of hearing the words of people I disagree with, I’m worried the people who haven’t the knowledge and skills to assess speech based on its strength of evidence; the substitution of emotional appeals in the place of facts & logic; the various interests of those implicated by such speech, and the probability of it representing an accurate view of reality.
As a college professor, media literacy & the necessary critical thinking skills that go with it were part of every course; I can’t imagine teaching on any subject without it. I warned students that once they learned these skills, there was no unlearning them, and it would open up their world view in ways that both useful and annoying (sometimes I wish I could just take a break from being so aware of the bigger picture all the time; it requires some additional new strategies for peace of mind, if only temporarily)
Ms. Ovist, your words caught my attention: "...the substitution of emotional appeals in the place of facts and logic...." It is exactly the emotional appeals which count most to the voting citizen. This is more important by far than facts and logic. Arlie Russell Hochschild examines this topic in a brilliant book STRANGERS IN THEIR OWN LAND. It was the best, most important book I had read in a decade. Her new book STOLEN PRIDE, Loss, Shame, And The Rise Of The Right is turning out to be as good. I just read the first chapter. She is perceptive and original. If you have not already read her. I recommend it. I must confess; I am a biased in your direction.
Awareness isn't the toxin, powerlessness is (not that I perceive you as powerless).
Facts and logic, or what passes for them, are not the domain of one side or the other. The MAGAverse strongly believes they have the facts and it's "our" side that denies the truth as they perceive it. Nor do they believe we have the capacity to see the strength and clarity of their logic.
It isn't as if our sources of news, aka "facts", aren't biased — they are. Assuming facts are even present in the first place: increasingly our "news" (sorry for all the the quotation marks) is littler more than opinions and spectacle. At this point, unbiased news would have an all but impossible task of trying to find financing.
As For an accurate view of reality, whose reality? I'm pretty sure yours and mine are not totally identical.
I am in my 90's but remember the '50's too well. My great-uncle, a Scottish painter and sculpture of some renown, was denied entry to the United States for a lecture tour because he was a Socialist.
If this interference with free dialogue is allowed to stand, and I fear it will be, we will be just another autocracy. I have already told my grandchildren to leave the states.
Joan, what do you mean WILL Be another autocracy. Are people self blinded? We are already there. Do you think that Noem's comments about tarring and feathering the governor of California could be made in a free country, a democracy?
When any citizen or foreigner tries to enter the United States, they must surrender their electronics for inspection. If you don't give them your password, they will likely just keep your device.
This means your email with the latest Hartmann Report could be a problem. Now is the time to think about leaving your computer and phone at home. I've seen articles advising use of "burner" phones.
We are so past "1984" territory with Palantir and license plate readers. Join the resistance. Speak the truth. But don't forget to take out the trash and wipe your search history if you are going anywhere!
Putin may not have been at the G7 in person, but I would bet he was listening-in over Trump's phone. I'll be exercising my free speech rights in the streets, and I can only HOPE Putin and his puppets are listening.
People who can't burn their trash, such as moi, need to buy a shredder. I don't have a cell phone, but I do have a digital trail on substack (Robert Reich's and Thom Hartmann's) but I am 86 and 10 years past the average life expectancy.
A friend from New England recently crossed into Canada and on her return was stopped and asked “how do feel about the president”. When she chose not to answer she was detained for 15 minutes before being allowed to go (to check her record and writings?)
In January, a man returning to the United States from Nicaragua landed at Miami International Airport, made it through customs and waited for his luggage at baggage claim. By the time he left the airport, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials had revoked his Global Entry status.
In April, a social-media travel-content creator was also detained at MIA for hours as officers looked through her social media accounts and asked about her father’s immigration status.
And just weeks ago, a Miami intensive-care nurse who travels to and from Cuba often said he was stopped by Customs to have his bags checked — along with everyone else on his flight.
My ancestors fought in every war in which we have been involved from the French and Indian War to Vietnam. Probably more, as my extended family is large and not close. At 77 and ill, I can’t travel much beyond doctor’s offices and occasionally church. But if I did go again to Europe, as I did when younger, despite my family’s military tradition and very white make-up, I would be surprised if I were not detained and interrogated for hours, given my unremitting, years-long tirades against all things MAGAt, especially the felon in chief.
Since I can’t travel, guess all I can do to prepare is exercise those Second Amendment rights those folks so revere. It may be time for us who oppose them to show them that WE are the true “arsenal of democracy”. They sure as hell aren’t.
I hope it doesn’t come to that, because I think they want that. But if they try cancelling the elections next year with a fake emergency and martial law declaration, there may be no other option. Which will be our end, no matter the outcome. Never forget: WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES, THOSE WHO VOTED FOR IT, AND THOSE TOO PUT OFF OR TOO APATHETIC TO VOTE. Never, ever forget that.
Any of us whoa re actively disparaging Trump and his government are probably on a watch list somewhere by now. It's only a matter of time before they move inward from the borders to the rest of the country. Speak now or lose the right later. This is were Americans are right now.
It's time to speak out while we still can, to call all of this out. If enough people take to the streets, as they did at the end of the Vietnam War, change can happen. Some people may get hurt or even die but liberty is not free. It has to be fought for over and over again in order to hang onto it.
This is another one of those times. We have to fight back for our liberties as granted in the constitution now, before Trump and company do away with the constitution altogether.
Thy doth speak Truth. The time in which to stop a crime is in the planning and organizaing stages, in the early stages like now. Project 2025, and that is what is driving this, Russell Vought and his plutocrats and theocrats, are in the learning stage.
One must crawl before one walks, and crawlers fall off tables and bump into hard objects.
Mariners would say, that they are getting their sea legs. Testing the boundaries, what they can get away with, and it looks like they can get away with anything. Not just immigrants, but elected officials, you and I
Want to keep your job, your social security pension, your retirement pension, your military pension, then pledge fealty to Il Duce, Der Fuhrer, Dear Leader, Comrade Supreme Commander.
Poll: Americans overwhelmingly want Trump to obey court rulings, but MAGA Republicans are split
Eight in 10 respondents believe the Trump administration shouldn't ignore a federal court ruling the White House doesn't like, per the new NBC News Decision Desk Poll.
I don't see any indications that Trump pays attention to public opinion. do you?
Trump and his handlers know that regardless of any internal conflict, like between those of the neo cons and the isolationists, that at the end of the day they will still vote MAGA, because for them the thought of a liberal government is intolerable. They have spent all of their energy and money, beating down the feminists, the queers, the blacks, the atheists, the Muslims, the Jews and what, throw it away over a trifle like war. (Sarcasm)
People should really be getting wise to the genuine peril they face in travelling to the US, even white people who have never committed even a minor infraction, even people whose visa status is absolutely in order. Tourist-dependent areas plead for visitors but they will face further loss of their incomes. And resident American citizens, if they have ever voiced even mildly dissident opinions, would be better off getting out now. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/16/why-a-professor-of-fascism-left-the-us-the-lesson-of-1933-is-you-get-out
This is beyond outrageous! It presents a very dicy dangerous moment. We all truly ARE in trouble. Who's next to be denied returning to this country, Bernie Sanders?
Certain words have ALWAYS been "thought crimes" in the "US." And no one knows this better than the Black Person in the United States, but let us, for the sake of objective debate, forget that specificity and make a more generalized observation.
While you constantly troll me, tell me, given your commentary, how to you discern "Jews" and "Blacks" from the many Black Jews from Eritrea, Ethiopia, Uganda, Ghana and Nigeria. How are they different from what you blanketly reference as "Jews?" How are they treated by the "real Jews" (let your ilk tell it)? I would guess similar to you "real Amerikans."
"But don’t mistake Trump’s and Noem’s stupidity for harmlessness." In fact this makes them more dangerous especially when combined with their evil souls. We need to get rid of them ASAP!
Oh how would Voodoo be a real thing.
I know you don't mean it but here in Baghdad By the Sea lots are using Trump effigy dolls. Pins may be billed seperately.
https://www.amazon.com/PapaLegba-Reliever-Political-Locally-Designed/dp/B0F548ZZD2/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uO3w6gf6L7sBUgSQBA5mgTZyJ9kQ-A3KQqAR-h3i8JvKMwTNUpQsHvNa-qZ-I3qU9uHDLC4-sCWh6Hu90aXxUMDgt-pLCtbMCj-fyW4n8tyKcbEvIKOsMeCwZvqZyTLM0NJIiSzVOv4AQZGKEDpUhw6i8xEaI3ozkvabN15jDoNEC_iMO7kc42J9onx4HawjI7kC_q7nxsK8lw7GfNR3ZYp2QH3tj1tuCzZ5BNfUAouL3qnxaqN6IJtDhMMMfhkmJarwmK6FUVHo6KAJ6M59YhG6xcPo-e2EoaYiNp_fPqA.V-Hni2ryE2t2L2PeEdAHePgtxOZRuiOailGVXXLA5_A&dib_tag=se&keywords=trump%2Bvoodoo%2Bdoll&qid=1750175259&sr=8-3&th=1
Thanks for the link. I just bought one.
Perfect image. Two x's mark the spot.
This sort of thing also shows tremendous fear by the authorities. A confident tyrant does not worry about complaints. They believe in themselves and know their power base is secure, and if people grumble at least they have an outlet. A good example is Friedrich William I, an 18th century king of Prussia. One day when riding he saw a poster calling him a dictator and listing what he had done to deserve that title. He carefully read it and then ordered his soldiers to take this down...and put it closer to the ground where people on foot could easily see it too. Can you imagine anyone at the top levels of the Trump or Netanyahu administrations having that kind of self-confidence and humor?
With regard to your question: "When Did Words become a Crime?" Thoughts being criminal goes back at least to the founding of Christianity. You didn't have to do anything to sin, just think about it.
Outgoddamnedstanding, Steve. Succinct, concise and accurate. Brutally so, in fact.
Brutality is fierce, conflicted discrimination meant to cower the offender. We are seeing this now, done by ghosts with usually no ID, no affiliation. Sometimes, as w/Padlilla, a gracious man, the IDs are obvious, having ben part of the setup for the Black Widow's next dog murder. Individually, this is nerve shattering and cathartic. But without catharsis, most 'murkans feel little, if anything, so numbed have they become via digital illusions and addictions. As much as I would wish that no person, ever, anywhere, being subjected to menacing intimidation and harm, it is apparent that without these incidents, including the remorseless murders of two real persons in MN, and the wounding of another and the huge fallout to their families and friends, the catharses needed to become 'woke' to reality will end in the enslavement of 80 percent of the 'murkan population. Now we have witnessed, for 3 years, the horrors of Ukraine and Gaza. Some smoke, some noise, some defiance, followed by almost instant subjugation.
'murkans are largely numb, stressed out, dumbed down, drugged up, malnourished, deceived, deluded, intimidated, coerced, threatened, lied to 60/60/24/7/365. Tight enough for your whities? 5% of dedicated resistance will destroy this stupid, inept, nasty, infighting, jealous, whimpering cabal. But they have to FEEL IT, in their bones and nervous systems. We must, as citizens, take charge of protecting each other and those public servants, like judges and political servants, and appointed servants, with boots on the ground surrounding them. I have no power, no influence, no money, no agency. But I have these words. Cannot 300 million humans get some shit together to save their sorry asses, as a GROUP? Just sayin.'
'Tis odd that this excellent treatise by a man I deeply respect deals with verbotten verbiage. Because, you see, this geopolitical revolt (and that IS WHAT IT IS) boils down to the global majority having said "Basta" to white supremacy. Given that I have the rather mild intellect to decipher the obvious, your observation so diplomatically articulated is ironclad truth.
However being the cretin that is I, allow me break it down for the rest of us dullards: until the world's minority (the so-called "white" European) sees its children die, its cities bombed, police (as in police-y) gun down its citizens, its economy devastated it will continue to ride the tiger.
Problem with riding a tiger is that if you get off...it will eat you.
Dwell, ruminate, cogitate and contemplate so that you might, in the end, compensate as you will...one way or another.
My southern French European heritage, with some Polish and Scandanavian thrown in, has a long memory. Killers and slaughtered, within generations of each other. Turmoil, fear, terror, confusion, desperation, laced with vignettes of peaceful times, some blessed comfort here and there, some gleaning awareness of better ways to do old behaviors. Kenyatta, I have heard your words for years with Thom, always prescient and calmingly raw. The mostly melanin-less ethnicity of 'murka has yet to catch up to what has been transpiring for centuries around them, and in their midst. Denial is a bastard son of fear. It salts old wounds, evincing paranoia in the cortex, and the drama-trauma of norepinephrine boils hot in the blood, waiting for its dopamine cleanse. I have luckily had chances to meet my personal tigers, plural, and find that they are the least desirable of transporting savagery. They only eat when hungry, a dignified behavior all know of. I have often said, to voices filled with chagrin or worse, that being white skinned is a curse waiting to be exorcized, a demon that need not be carried like a sack of old bones. I do feel, and experience, that many of my bloodline have discarded this sack, and wish to bury the bones with some sense of sorrow and remorse. Right now, would be as good a time as any, que no?
Some are. 18 U.S.C. § 2385 - Advocating Overthrow of Government:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof--
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
.
This section prohibits knowingly or willfully advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government by force or violence.
It also covers publishing or distributing materials that advocate such actions.
Furthermore, it prohibits organizing or being a member of any group that advocates the violent overthrow of the government.
Penalties for violations can include fines and imprisonment.
Daniel: Per 18 U.S.C. § 2385 , we are all guilty, including protestors.
Apparently, one of the main goals of DOGE was the compilation of a database on every American. Some very busy souls have now compiled a database on everyone it seems, particularly those with any kind of a bully platform. Sadly, none of this is surprising in the context of authoritarian rule. What makes me sad is the image of an America debased, shabby, mediocre, unkempt, its citizens, to quote Goethe: troubled guests on a dark earth.
This is deja vu. E.G. After John Lennon moved to New York City in 1971, his criticism of the war and his activism led to a three-year deportation attempt by the Nixon administration. He was involved in a continuous legal battle with immigration authorities and was denied permanent residency in the US until 1976.
During the Cold War era, which encompassed the Vietnam War period, the US government used the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (also known as the McCarran-Walter Act) to exclude foreigners based on their political beliefs and affiliations deemed a threat to national security. This policy allowed for the exclusion of individuals associated with Communist or totalitarian parties or those whose entry could have "potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences" for the United States. The law was used as a political tool to deny visas to individuals suspected of promoting communism or other "subversive" views.
Graham Greene, also a brit, who I researched as a character in "Pitching Cuba", was a prolific writer, who was probably a British agent, was labelled as a commie. Greene was, in fact, briefly a member of the Communist Party when he was 19 years old. However, he left the party after a few weeks. Despite this, he was barred from entering the United States in 1952 during the height of the Red Scare, classified as "inadmissible to US because of membership in the Communist party of England". He was subsequently removed from the country. Documents indicate that his writing clearly demonstrated anti-communist sentiments, but the ban was based on his past affiliation. The State Department eventually recommended a waiver for him based on his prominence as an internationally known writer.
Mr. Solomon, I was expelled from the University of Michigan for my political views and from Central Michigan University for the same reason. My house and I were placed on a watch list by one of the intelligence agencies of the U.S. Government. I do not know for sure which intelligence agency; but I would bet it was military intelligence. My activities were repeatedly reported on by a particular agent whose first name was Richard, who was from Point Pleasant, New Jersey. I Knew him as Rich. He was employed by the military.
After I eventually graduated with a BA from Wayne State University; a truly liberal schooI, I was able get on with my education and my subsequent career as a professor. I was fired from my faculty position for political reasons and only got my job back because of the herculean efforts of the Michigan Education Association which won a grievance for me. I was the only faculty member in the U.S. [at that time] to ever gain tenure by winning a grievance.
How did I learn about the reasons for my educational difficulties? The Freedom Of Information Act and help from whistle blowers, one of whom was a member of the Michigan State Police Intelligence Agency. The head of the Michigan State police was one of those who was trying to silence me.
There is more to this story. But, enough for now. It is my final word here that I never advocated for overthrow of the U.S. Government. Never! My opinions were enough to get me into trouble.
Wow.
When I was in Vietnam, my mother's close friend, a deacon in the Presbyterian church, wrote an anti war letter published by our local newspaper, and had a similar experience.
“The right to say wise things necessarily implies the right to say foolish things. The answer to foolish speech is wise speech and not force. The Republic is founded upon the faith that if the American people are permitted freely to hear foolish and wise speech, a majority will choose the wise. If that faith is not justified the Republic is based on sand.” Lincoln
It is the role of the educational system to create individuals, well rounded, who are able to discern truth from B.S. It is not happening, and I fear, has not happened for decades. That alone makes me pessimistic that we can halt this abridgement of our basic rights. It's like a rotting pier holding up a dock.
We always chuckled at Benjamin Franklin's response to Elizabeth Willing Powel's question: "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" Answer, "A Republic if you can keep it"
It is slipping away, and it is so astounding that the Republicans are willing to be a party to this overthrow of our basic rights.
Free speech for me, but not for thee. And that has been the bete noire of the free speech movement, because it demands free speech for itself, but boycotts and cancels speech with which it disagrees.
On the other hand the 1st Amendment does not guarantee free speech or assembly, it simply says that congress shall make no law abridging the right, it places no restriction on any other person, party, company, organization, state, county, municipality.
I've been advocating that groups that advocate murdering other people should be outlawed. In Deutschland both the Nazi and Communist parties are verboten.
Defamation, fighting words and hate are not protected by the 1st Amendment.
Actually, in general hate speech is protected by the First Amendment. If not, half of what Trump says would be a violation to say nothing of the right-wing blogosphere; much of theirs would be as well.
As fine as our American ideals may be, we have yet to reliably recognize & dismiss the false charges by those whose desire for more power, more money or just plain meanness makes a semantics mockery of any intelligent analysis of the meaning & use of words.
Personally I’ve always more concerned with the vulnerability of an audience than with the words of the speaker. In other words, I agree that we must do a much better job in teaching media literacy (which, under the current police state, would itself be seen as dangerous and inappropriate).
I’m not afraid of hearing the words of people I disagree with, I’m worried the people who haven’t the knowledge and skills to assess speech based on its strength of evidence; the substitution of emotional appeals in the place of facts & logic; the various interests of those implicated by such speech, and the probability of it representing an accurate view of reality.
As a college professor, media literacy & the necessary critical thinking skills that go with it were part of every course; I can’t imagine teaching on any subject without it. I warned students that once they learned these skills, there was no unlearning them, and it would open up their world view in ways that both useful and annoying (sometimes I wish I could just take a break from being so aware of the bigger picture all the time; it requires some additional new strategies for peace of mind, if only temporarily)
Ms. Ovist, your words caught my attention: "...the substitution of emotional appeals in the place of facts and logic...." It is exactly the emotional appeals which count most to the voting citizen. This is more important by far than facts and logic. Arlie Russell Hochschild examines this topic in a brilliant book STRANGERS IN THEIR OWN LAND. It was the best, most important book I had read in a decade. Her new book STOLEN PRIDE, Loss, Shame, And The Rise Of The Right is turning out to be as good. I just read the first chapter. She is perceptive and original. If you have not already read her. I recommend it. I must confess; I am a biased in your direction.
Awareness isn't the toxin, powerlessness is (not that I perceive you as powerless).
Facts and logic, or what passes for them, are not the domain of one side or the other. The MAGAverse strongly believes they have the facts and it's "our" side that denies the truth as they perceive it. Nor do they believe we have the capacity to see the strength and clarity of their logic.
It isn't as if our sources of news, aka "facts", aren't biased — they are. Assuming facts are even present in the first place: increasingly our "news" (sorry for all the the quotation marks) is littler more than opinions and spectacle. At this point, unbiased news would have an all but impossible task of trying to find financing.
As For an accurate view of reality, whose reality? I'm pretty sure yours and mine are not totally identical.
There was a decision to that effect, but if violence is implied like shouting fire....
Defamation is not cond=sidered as speech.
AGREED
I am in my 90's but remember the '50's too well. My great-uncle, a Scottish painter and sculpture of some renown, was denied entry to the United States for a lecture tour because he was a Socialist.
If this interference with free dialogue is allowed to stand, and I fear it will be, we will be just another autocracy. I have already told my grandchildren to leave the states.
Joan, what do you mean WILL Be another autocracy. Are people self blinded? We are already there. Do you think that Noem's comments about tarring and feathering the governor of California could be made in a free country, a democracy?
First & Fourth Amendment be Damned---Hand It Over
When any citizen or foreigner tries to enter the United States, they must surrender their electronics for inspection. If you don't give them your password, they will likely just keep your device.
This means your email with the latest Hartmann Report could be a problem. Now is the time to think about leaving your computer and phone at home. I've seen articles advising use of "burner" phones.
We are so past "1984" territory with Palantir and license plate readers. Join the resistance. Speak the truth. But don't forget to take out the trash and wipe your search history if you are going anywhere!
Putin may not have been at the G7 in person, but I would bet he was listening-in over Trump's phone. I'll be exercising my free speech rights in the streets, and I can only HOPE Putin and his puppets are listening.
People who can't burn their trash, such as moi, need to buy a shredder. I don't have a cell phone, but I do have a digital trail on substack (Robert Reich's and Thom Hartmann's) but I am 86 and 10 years past the average life expectancy.
A friend from New England recently crossed into Canada and on her return was stopped and asked “how do feel about the president”. When she chose not to answer she was detained for 15 minutes before being allowed to go (to check her record and writings?)
In January, a man returning to the United States from Nicaragua landed at Miami International Airport, made it through customs and waited for his luggage at baggage claim. By the time he left the airport, U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials had revoked his Global Entry status.
In April, a social-media travel-content creator was also detained at MIA for hours as officers looked through her social media accounts and asked about her father’s immigration status.
And just weeks ago, a Miami intensive-care nurse who travels to and from Cuba often said he was stopped by Customs to have his bags checked — along with everyone else on his flight.
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article307367761.html#storylink=cpy
My ancestors fought in every war in which we have been involved from the French and Indian War to Vietnam. Probably more, as my extended family is large and not close. At 77 and ill, I can’t travel much beyond doctor’s offices and occasionally church. But if I did go again to Europe, as I did when younger, despite my family’s military tradition and very white make-up, I would be surprised if I were not detained and interrogated for hours, given my unremitting, years-long tirades against all things MAGAt, especially the felon in chief.
Since I can’t travel, guess all I can do to prepare is exercise those Second Amendment rights those folks so revere. It may be time for us who oppose them to show them that WE are the true “arsenal of democracy”. They sure as hell aren’t.
I hope it doesn’t come to that, because I think they want that. But if they try cancelling the elections next year with a fake emergency and martial law declaration, there may be no other option. Which will be our end, no matter the outcome. Never forget: WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES, THOSE WHO VOTED FOR IT, AND THOSE TOO PUT OFF OR TOO APATHETIC TO VOTE. Never, ever forget that.
Any of us whoa re actively disparaging Trump and his government are probably on a watch list somewhere by now. It's only a matter of time before they move inward from the borders to the rest of the country. Speak now or lose the right later. This is were Americans are right now.
It's time to speak out while we still can, to call all of this out. If enough people take to the streets, as they did at the end of the Vietnam War, change can happen. Some people may get hurt or even die but liberty is not free. It has to be fought for over and over again in order to hang onto it.
This is another one of those times. We have to fight back for our liberties as granted in the constitution now, before Trump and company do away with the constitution altogether.
Thy doth speak Truth. The time in which to stop a crime is in the planning and organizaing stages, in the early stages like now. Project 2025, and that is what is driving this, Russell Vought and his plutocrats and theocrats, are in the learning stage.
One must crawl before one walks, and crawlers fall off tables and bump into hard objects.
Mariners would say, that they are getting their sea legs. Testing the boundaries, what they can get away with, and it looks like they can get away with anything. Not just immigrants, but elected officials, you and I
Want to keep your job, your social security pension, your retirement pension, your military pension, then pledge fealty to Il Duce, Der Fuhrer, Dear Leader, Comrade Supreme Commander.
I've been monitoring the reaction to Trump/Iran today in right wing circles.
Republican hawks vs Maga isolationists: the internal war that could decide Trump’s Iran response. - Andrew Roth. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/17/republican-hawks-vs-maga-isolationists-the-internal-war-that-could-decide-trumps-iran-response
Trump's Most Favorable Pollster Warns It Could Be 'All Over for MAGA'
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-pollster-warns-all-over-maga-iran-israel-2086637
MAGA supporters split on whether Trump should follow court rulings
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5353865-maga-supporters-split-on-whether-trump-should-follow-court-rulings/
Poll: Americans overwhelmingly want Trump to obey court rulings, but MAGA Republicans are split
Eight in 10 respondents believe the Trump administration shouldn't ignore a federal court ruling the White House doesn't like, per the new NBC News Decision Desk Poll.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/poll-americans-overwhelmingly-want-trump-obey-court-rulings-maga-repub-rcna212783
I don't see any indications that Trump pays attention to public opinion. do you?
Trump and his handlers know that regardless of any internal conflict, like between those of the neo cons and the isolationists, that at the end of the day they will still vote MAGA, because for them the thought of a liberal government is intolerable. They have spent all of their energy and money, beating down the feminists, the queers, the blacks, the atheists, the Muslims, the Jews and what, throw it away over a trifle like war. (Sarcasm)
Pays attention to bribes. Flattery.
People should really be getting wise to the genuine peril they face in travelling to the US, even white people who have never committed even a minor infraction, even people whose visa status is absolutely in order. Tourist-dependent areas plead for visitors but they will face further loss of their incomes. And resident American citizens, if they have ever voiced even mildly dissident opinions, would be better off getting out now. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/16/why-a-professor-of-fascism-left-the-us-the-lesson-of-1933-is-you-get-out
The only free speech allowed by this administration is by the right wing. They can preach hate all they want to. Our country is in deep trouble.
This is beyond outrageous! It presents a very dicy dangerous moment. We all truly ARE in trouble. Who's next to be denied returning to this country, Bernie Sanders?
Certain words have ALWAYS been "thought crimes" in the "US." And no one knows this better than the Black Person in the United States, but let us, for the sake of objective debate, forget that specificity and make a more generalized observation.
Say anything negative about Israel.
As if propagandized antisemites haven't committed murder -- against Jews and Blacks.
While you constantly troll me, tell me, given your commentary, how to you discern "Jews" and "Blacks" from the many Black Jews from Eritrea, Ethiopia, Uganda, Ghana and Nigeria. How are they different from what you blanketly reference as "Jews?" How are they treated by the "real Jews" (let your ilk tell it)? I would guess similar to you "real Amerikans."
Thrill me, white boy.
Falasha. I identify with them. Same DNA.
You obviously hate Jews. All Jews.
This is absolutely scary shit. Any determination of validity or legality of free speech can only be made the courts.