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Jan D. Weir's avatar

What is usually not well understood about legislation that requires union membership where there is a union, is that all workers benefit from union efforts for better pay, better working conditions and such. Where there is a union studies show that pay and working conditions are better. So legislation deducting union dues, a very small amount, from their paycheck automatically benefits those workers.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Union membershio rules are done on a state by state basis. My former office heard "Labor Management" statutes. Goes back to Taft Hartley, 1948, reducing union rights.

What Trump killed are government contracting requirements that require prevaiing wages and equal rights protections. In his first group of EOs he killed our OFCCP, Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs. Heard equal employment opportunity (EEO) and affirmative action regulations for federal contractors and subcontractors. OFCCP ensures these companies don't discriminate in hiring or employment practices based on race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, or veteran status. Also probably gone are wage and fringe benefit requirements for workers on federal contracts through various laws and regulations, including the Davis-Bacon and Related Acts (DBRA) and the Service Contract Act (SCA). These laws generally require contractors and subcontractors to pay workers no less than the locally prevailing wage and fringe benefits for similar work in the area.

The Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute (FSLMRS) is a federal law which establishes collective bargaining rights for most employees of the federal government of the United States. It was established under Title VII of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978. Trump is trying to kill it.

Meanwhile pending cases may eliminate collective bargaining courtesy of Musk/Bezos. https://prospect.org/labor/2025-02-05-musk-bezos-war-collective-bargaining/

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G.P. Baltimore's avatar

Unions can also be responsible for training and apprenticeships and testing out for journeymen membership. They ensure that the people are in fact competent to actually build the bridge you commute on or the building you work in. Lower cost medical coverage and access to less expensive life and pension fund, depending upon the union.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

How many people have lost their life savings since Trump #47 was inauguarated?

How many got access by "donating?"

From Fortune https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2025/05/10/trump-truth-social-world-liberty-financial-meme-coin-crypto-media-bitcoin-blockchain/:

Trump maintains control over and can profit from his businesses while in office through a revocable trust, of which he is both the sole donor and sole beneficiary.

In his first term, those looking to support Trump financially could lend him money against his real estate, license his name, buy his assets, join one of his clubs or book a hotel.

Since leaving office in 2021, Trump’s business empire expanded into the digital realm, where the products are often intangible, but the revenue streams are real and more accessible: Trump Media & Technology Group, the parent company of the Truth Social platform; World Liberty Financial, a decentralized finance protocol; and the $TRUMP meme coin.

It’s just a few months into his second term, but people and groups are taking full advantage of the new opportunities: Chinese blockchain entrepreneur Justin Sun’s $30 million investment in World Liberty Financial, for example, helped the venture take off and the president and his family go on to net $400 million (by comparison, Forbes estimates it took a Chinese state-owned bank about four years to route $5.4 million to Trump via its Trump Tower lease).

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt told Forbes in a statement, “President Trump is compliant with all conflict-of-interest rules, and only acts in the best interests of the American public—which is why they overwhelmingly re-elected him to this office, despite years of lies and false accusations against him and his businesses from the fake news media.”

Spokespeople for the Trump Organization, Trump Media, the $TRUMP meme coin and World Liberty Financial did not respond to requests for comment.

Trump Media incorporated the month after Trump left the White House and went public in March 2024 through a merger with a blank check company. In addition to Truth Social, it runs the streaming service Truth+ and is expanding into financial services. Trump owns 115 million shares–about 52% of the company—worth $2.9 billion as of Friday’s close, held in his revocable trust. Buying shares directly from the company in a private sale would allow for the injection of large sums of cash, while open-market purchases help prop up the value of Trump’s stake. A Canadian credit union, a locality-run bank in Switzerland and a Japanese financial-services firm disclosed owning shares in Trump Media to the Securities and Exchange Commission, although the acquisitions were made prior to Trump’s inauguration. Advertising on Truth Social or Truth+ also offers ways to enrich the president. It doesn’t look like many big companies are taking advantage of this channel though: Trump Media reported just $821,000 in net sales for the first quarter in a filing on Friday. Its ad inventory currently appears to be dominated by the likes of MAGA retailers, conspiratorial pitches and promotions for Truth+ itself.

$trump Meme Coin Generates Millions In Transaction Fees

Trump launched his meme coin–a cryptocurrency with no intrinsic value that’s typically based on internet jokes and hype–three days before taking office, encouraging his 100 million followers on social media to “join my very special Trump Community” and “celebrate everything we stand for: WINNING!” (The coin quickly reached a $15 billion market cap, though it has since dropped to around $2.8 billion.) CIC Digital, a Trump Organization partner behind the meme coin and another company named Fight Fight Fight retained ownership of 80% of the coins, meaning rising demand boosts the value of their holdings. The plan is to release those holdings over the next three years. The companies also collect a transaction fee of 0.1% to 10% of each trade—an arrangement that generated almost $100 million in the first two weeks, Reuters reported, citing three crypto data firms. And last month, the companies launched a contest promising a black-tie-optional dinner with Trump at his D.C.-area golf club for the top 220 holders. The announcement spiked the coin’s price by 70%, though it has since settled to around $14. More than 70% of the largest holders appear to be based outside the United States, according to crypto researcher Molly White.

World Liberty Financial ($wlfi): Hundreds Of Millions From Sales

Trump serves as the chief crypto advocate and “inspiration” for this decentralized finance platform that debuted in September 2024. The protocol functions as a banking system on the blockchain, enabling peer-to-peer lending, fundraising and trading digital assets. Holders of its $WLFI token can propose and vote on rule changes. The company earns revenue through sales of its token and other products, including USD1–a stablecoin pegged to the U.S. dollar. Trump and his family own about 60% of the company through an LLC and hold 22.5 billion $WLFI tokens, according to the website’s small print. The LLC also is entitled to 75% of the proceeds from token sales, less some deductions. In March, World Liberty Financial claimed it had sold $550 million worth of $WLFI, which should have translated to about $400 million in profit for Trump and his family. Stablecoins typically make money for their issuers by working similarly to a bank: the buyer makes a deposit, the issuer gives them coins and then it invests the deposit, keeping whatever profits it generates. Last week an investment fund backed by the Abu Dhabi government announced it would use USD1 to make a $2 billion investment in the crypto exchange Binance (which is not affiliated with Trump).

Key Background

Trump’s ventures into social media and cryptocurrency have transformed his post-presidency finances. He more than doubled his fortune in one year, according to Forbes’ estimates, largely due to Trump Media and digital assets. These new vehicles operate in sectors with minimal regulation, enabling flows of money that are faster and harder to trace than traditional real estate deals.

Contra

An ethics white paper the Trump Organization released in January noted that the Constitution does not prohibit any president from owning, operating or managing their businesses. But to “avoid even the appearance of any conflict,” the company hired an outside ethics advisor and Trump pledged to continue to keep his assets in a trust and not manage the company directly.

Surprising Fact

Since that white paper was published, the Trump Organization fired the outside attorney it had hired to serve as its ethics advisor after he drew the president's wrath for also representing Harvard University.

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Terry's avatar

Yet, most of my family adores and reveres Ronald Reagan.

He's a cult of personality.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Gratefully, it's not genetic.

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William Farrar's avatar

There is a definite shortage of intelligent life on earth Terry. You must be the black sheep of your family.

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Robert Herreshoff's avatar

While expanding the middle class is nominally an admirable goal that means that there would then be fewer people living in poverty, unable to feed their children, afford housing, and all the other evils that arise because of it. If ending poverty is the goal then maybe we should start by ridding ourselves of the class system which makes poverty inevitable. Musk is not a better person because he is rich, nor is the person huddled under the freeway overpass less because he is poor, but society — which is molded and controlled by the rich — would have us believe this to be so.

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Tomonthebeach's avatar

The term “middle class” is a rather meaningless term in America today.

Statistically, if you looked at the proverbial “Normal” bell-shaped curve, the average and the median (50% point of the distribution) are the same and one standard deviation from the mean/median accounts for 68% - the middle class. But if you look at American wealth statistics, there is nothing normal about that distribution. The average net worth of Americans is about $1.06 million. However, the median net worth (the 50% point) is a measly $193 thousand. The extent that the wealth curve is not normal is called skew, and in America, the distribution of wealth is very skewed. Only 18% of Americans are estimated to have a net worth above $1 million, not 50%. Bill Gates alone is worth $200 billion – or 200,000 times 1 million dollars.

The skew of wealth becomes more obvious when looking at percentiles. The top 5% of Americans are worth over $1.17 million. The top 1% are worth 10 times that amount ($11.6 million), but that 1% figure accounts for a whopping 30-35% of the nation’s wealth. So then, what percent are worth over $50 million? The answer is .04%. What about 1 billion dollars that is .0002%. Thus, the distribution of US wealth is skewed toward the top 1% of Americans. The so-called middle class are skew-ered. Even upper class is meaningless.

A contributing factor to the gaslight of “middle class” is how net worth is estimated. It is far easier to estimate net worth using state and federal tax data which reflects property (house) value, bank savings and investment portfolio values. However, as an economics article I read years ago pointed out, many net-worth estimates ignore retiree pension values. That is important because pensions are definitely wealth.

If you ask how much one would have to have invested in income-producing wealth at say 6% APR for a company pension to produce say $5,000/month for 25 years, you would need $767,000. That is a lot of overlooked wealth. Then, if you factor in a Social Security pension of say $2,000/month, that is $310,000 more dollars – or roughly over 1 million dollars in overlooked wealth! Now, if you try to factor in pension value while still working – it is just too messy for most economists to bother with. Not everybody has an employer pension plan. I rest my case. There is no middle class anymore.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Everything is relative and so is the cost of living, so a person making X in say, NYC makes X - % in rural America. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/cost-of-living-index-by-state

AI In 2025, to be considered middle class in the US, a household generally needs to earn between $49,500 and $148,500 annually. This range can vary by state, with higher-cost states like California and Massachusetts requiring higher incomes to reach middle-class status. For example, in California, the middle class income range is $63,674 to $191,042.

"New York’s cost of living index is 148.2, the second-highest in the country. Housing in New York is the second most expensive in the United States, costing about 1.5 times the national average. The typical price for a single-family home in New York is $373,880. Rent runs $1,659 for an average two-bedroom apartment in the state. However, averages are much higher in New York City, where a two-bedroom unit costs an average of $5,874."

"The living wage in Mississippi is $80,523 for a family of four. Meanwhile, the median income for a family of four is $70,656. Despite the low cost of living, the poverty rate in Mississippi is the highest in the nation; nearly 20% of Mississippi residents live in poverty. Mississippi is also consistently ranked as one of the worst states to live."

Despite the characterization, a family making $100,000 would be poor in NY and rich in MS.

BTW at SSA the value of the disability prortion of the trust fund in about $1mil. The future value of a penson must be reduced to present value.

I heard many cases where future damages or earnings had to be reduced to present value. Present value is the current worth of a future sum of money, given a specific rate of return. It reflects the idea that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow due to the potential for investment and earning interest.

DOL keep track of life expectancy. https://www.bls.gov/cps/tables.htm

One size does not fit all so the life expectancy varies.....

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gerald f dobbertin's avatar

Tomonthebeach, what you are saying is that "middle class" is "defined" into existence. It is not an independently existing phenomenon which we can "discover" and "measure." It is in fact reified into existence. Your comments are unfortunately correct and if the average American had any idea at all about what Mathematically "normal" distributions are they would understand what your figures mean. The fact that Americans do not understand the significance of the fact that the origin of the "normal" distribution is found in the binomial distribution [ ie. the "normal" distribution is an approximation to the binomial distribution....something one should learn in high school algebra class], is lamentable.

Mathematical normality is a powerful and extremely useful concept. It is behind all statistical inferential analysis. You obviously know your cookies here. I taught this stuff for 36 years at the university level. I was always disappointed at how unprepared my American college level students were in math. I fear this American ignorance is only destined to get worse. I knew transfer students from Norway, Israel and Korea who had no rouble at all with this stuff.

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Tomonthebeach's avatar

If graphics were allowed on comments, I would have included a giant foot squishing the bell curve with most of the wealth squirting upwards like a firehose at the toe, because, in fact, America's wealth distribution is almost flat across percentiles until you get past 1%.

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez reminded voters that "Billionaires do not MAKE a billion dollars, they TAKE a billion dollars." The implication is that you have to screw a lot of people by charging too much for goods and services to amass that kind of wealth. Gates was not a computer genius - like Musk - he is a vulture capitalist. That takes a toll on your soul, that is often visible to others.

The other day, I saw an article headlining that Bill Gates was giving away 200 billion dollars. I was shocked - not at the amount of money he planned to give away, but at his shrivelled up wrinkly face in the accompanying photo. At 69, Gates looked like my stepdad at 98!

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gerald f dobbertin's avatar

Tomonthebeach, there have been 3 ways of defining "Social Class" by scholars.

1) the "Reputational" method of W. L. Warner at Michigan State University. He asked respondents to a survey: "What class are you in?" and "What class are various people in your community in?" This might be called a cultural anthropology approach. Warner was regarded as a Cultural Anthropologist.

2) The economist's approach is to use level of wealth and income to determine class. This has the appearance of objectivity to it. But it has more subjective elements to it than one might imagine if one looks closely at it.

3) the Structural-Functional approach. This divides the working people into categories according to their relationship to the means of production in society.

A) One group of people owns the means of production and the function of the

system is to produce wealth through profit for them.

B) Another group of people does not own the means of production. But their

function is to work at the command of those who do own the means of

production and produce profits for those owners.

This 3rd type is an objective measure of social class and is usually referred to

as a Marxian approach.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Not the same.

Note the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act of 2012 (the Act) amendments to the Social Security Act (SSA).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/3630/text

In general the official definition is: Middle-income households – those with an income that is two-thirds to double the U.S. median household income – had incomes ranging from about $56,600 to $169,800 in 2022. Lower-income households had incomes less than $56,600, and upper-income households had incomes greater than $169,800.

Just because someone has income shouldn't be dispositive. E.G. some people are land rich and have little ouside income, but moist of it is "disposible." Likewise "trust fund babies" may have little taxible income but have the use of "resources" like free room, board and other benefits.

At SSA it's called "in kind" income and resources.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

DOL has defined it and monetized it, but it varies.....

In some of my cases, experts like economists and math professors had to be called to testify about future and present value. In most cases, the baseline came from the DOL tables I cited above.

When I was a trial lawyer, I would sent files to economists to estimate value and pass it on to the insurance company involved. Would usually settle the case.

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Eddie's avatar

In addition, the public school system repeatedly extolled a curriculum designed to prepare ALL white Americans for college. Who would want to become a Trade worker unless you were more brawny than the brainy Professionals deserving higher pay? Becoming a Master Carpenter, a Master Electrician, or Auto Technician obviously couldn't require much intelligence. Right? Wrong‼️Where do the academic refugees go then if college isn't an option? To the largest educational system of all--- the Military.

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Jackie's avatar

To, all that Captain my Captain it really all did start with Reagan. Thom, razor wire, Thom the cruelty is the point. I, think you have to expect this from people who have no bottom in the first place. Thanks, for our insight, Thom.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

I agree with you: Over the last 40 years, I have watched my family's business get screwed and destroyed by Government policies and regulations. Years ago, I milked cows for 5 years, but had to stop, because of "price-controls." As the Federal Government has grown, it has taken the money from people like me.

As for Corporations, most of them are owned by stock-holders -- people like me.

You want "Government Control." I WANT MY FREEDOM -- the right to earn my Living without Government interference or "help." I could do just fine, if they would GET OUT OF MY WAY!

Then, I will gladly pay my fair share in taxes and help others along the way, so the Government won't have to do it!

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docrhw Weil's avatar

Tim, William seems a bit hard on you here, and I don't know you personally. But I will disagree on the "people like me" line as (according to a very quick check), something like the top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks, with investment firms largely controlling what is traded.

Government probably is too intrusive in some areas, particularly the lucrative industry of "fighting terrorism" by destroying our rights. And getting involved in hopeless wars, directly or indirectly, is a big business. But on the other hand we may well need more government elsewhere. Someone says, "I don't want socialized medicine because of having a bureaucrat between me and my doctor." I get that but then I say, "A bureaucrat will uphold the law that everyone gets some fair treatment. Are you happy with having an insurance adjuster between you and your doctor? Their job is to cut off your treatment and pay out as little as possible." So far nobody has a good answer to that.

It may well be the same in other areas where as individuals we need larger organizations to do things. Scientific research, big public health programs, building roads, guaranteeing that people are treated fairly, insuring worker safety and fighting climate change are examples. The current gang appears to have no interest in any such things.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

People like him who had his "family's business get screwed and destroyed" could take advantage of us taxpayers bailing them out via bankruoptcy and other government protections.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

We never went bankrupt or depended on borrowed money. When the business became unprofitable, it closed.

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gerald f dobbertin's avatar

In other words Mr. Cantrell: you failed. And now you want to blame your failure on the great bogey man, Government.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

It would be difficult to call a Dry Cleaners that expanded into a 4-State area Leather Cleaners and lasted over 50 years a failure. When the profits failed to justify the time and effort, I retired. Many of my customers had died or retired. I could tell you horror stories from dad and my customers from Government regulations. For years, I washed my hands in Perk and Stoddard Solvent.

BTW, I am an avid Environmentalist, and would never do anything to harm Creation.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

I bet you took tax deductions for any losses. I bet you took depreciation on any equipment.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

My father had an Accounting Degree: He took all permissible deductions. Problem?

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Government benefits.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

I was thinking of my mother's and sister's Teachers' Retirements: I don't think they are in the top 10%.

I have always paid cash for my Medical Services. Of course, I didn't need to see a doctor for over 30 years. I would have purchased catastrophic insurance, like I do for my home, but it didn't seem to be available. For now, I have Medicare and my supplement.

The Government has proper responsibilities, but whatever the Feds do beyond Constitutional Authority, is taken from the States and from the People! If Trump merely replaces the Bureaucracy with another of his own, we have accomplished nothing!

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docrhw Weil's avatar

A reasonable answer, thank you. But most people do see medical folks more than that. (At the least it’s a good idea to keep your basic shots up to date and check one's blood pressure and other vitals.) And they certainly can’t afford much intensive care. When my wife had a minor procedure the hospital said it would cost $3000 to keep her overnight. The nurses were nice enough to write on the chart that she was staying until dawn for “observation” so we ducked that bill, but this is the kind of thing that has to be done for basic care. Physicians may spend half their time doing paperwork and arguing with insurance companies. Anyway, one may wonder if the retirement fund you mentioned is ultimately being managed by something like Black Rock. And I completely agree about how the 10th Amendment has been subverted, though in fairness this is a very different age than when it was written. Still, it should be invoked more often. And can you really believe anything Trump says? He has betrayed everybody who ever trusted his word. (Now he says he doesn’t even understand the Constitution he swore to uphold. What does that say about him?)

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William Farrar's avatar

Yeh Tim, you want the freedom to exploit people, to poison them, to shaft them, so does Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos and all of the billionaires, but when they shaft people they shaft you.

The only thing standing between them and their ability to exploit you, is government.

I doubt that you have any significant contributions or abilities that would make you wealthy and put you in the top tier, but exit a democratically elected government, that responds to the needs and demands of the people that voted it in, you are left with neo serfdom, wage slavery.

The reason you enjoy your lifestyle and have an internet on which to pontificate, is government, a democratic, not authoritarian government, You will always have government, but this new government of Trump and Musk will take away all of those civil liberties,freedoms and yes economic benefits.

Who needs roads, who needs bridges, who needs education, who needs health care, who needs rules and inspectors to keep our food healthy and fund medical research and drugs?

You want to live in a libertarian society? Then you want to live in a society in which you are prey, I doubt that you have the ability to be a predator, though you may overestimate yourself.

The god mother of your ideology was Ayn Rand, she based John Galt,, Roarke, all of her hero's on a psychopathic serial killer name of William Edward Hickman, for her he was the ideal man.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

I want everyone to have equal opportunity to live up to their full potential. Our Government was limited by the Constitution, so that no one or group could exploit any other. But what stands between me and what our government bureaucracy has become? Only the Constitution. If Trump betrays us and does nor restore the Constitution, God will deal with him! I am not worried: As long as those of us who have experienced Freedom are alive, America is alive! And we will stand up to preserve it from ALL enemies.

The government will never be my Provider: It was never intended to be.

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William Farrar's avatar

Permit me to educate you as to what is a Ponzi Scheme. The phrase is like cognitive dissonance and so many others, thrown around by ignoramuses, who are lazy but hear a word or phrase that they think sounds intellgent.

A Ponzi scheme is a scheme in which a person induces others to invest in some enterprise, and as they invest they rake off the investment for their own purpose, it is the first ones in make the money, the last ones in get burned. Banking is not like that.

However multi level marketing like Amway is.

When I retired from the service I I attended an occupational counseling service, the "counseler" was an ex priest, he invited me to attend a meeting at his house (not religious) he was an Amway distributor, his pitch was to persuade me to buy into the scheme and, like him, buy the products. His garage was full of unbought and unsold (and never to be sold) products.. I would buy in, buy products, he got his cut, so did his sponsor on up the line. And that left me with thousands of dollars of inventory which I had no chance of selling.

That is a Ponzi Scheme. Betsy DeVos, the sister of Eric Prince, married into the Amway fortune. Right wing crooks, theocratic totalitarians ..;.all of them.

Eric and Betsy's father made his fortune from the vanity mirror on your cars sun visor.

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gerald f dobbertin's avatar

Yes Mr. Farrar, and that mirror factory poisoned the Macatawa Waterway in Holland, Michigan, a beautiful town of thousands of tax-paying citizens. Who needs government regulations? I wonder if either the Prince or DeVos families ever lived as riparians on the Macatawa?

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William Farrar's avatar

Government regulations, like laws and the constitution are just words on paper unless monitored and enforced, Alas most regs and laws are not enforced, especially where money rules.

My wife is a retired Building Official and she has lots of horror stories of county commissioners, city councils, city managers and mayors interfering in enforcement of codes because of the influence of money.

Then there are assholes like Bill Maher who whined even to Gavin Newsom, about having to get permits to build a shed (I would love to see what Bill Maher considers a shed, I think some thing like a middle class house, then after the fires that ravaged LA, he had his house reroofed with fire resistant material, but it required two inspections which he paid for, so he bitches about the LA County or California government.

Problem is that building codes are as old as the code of Hammurabi, and in the United States exist because of insurance companies and law suits.

It is the insurance companies that are responsible for the existence of seat belt laws, of most building codes, for inspections and certifications.

You want to build or buy a house, you have to get a loan, to get a loan, the banks require and inspection, to ensure the property they are insuring is up to code. If a company won't insure a property, no loan.

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William Farrar's avatar

First our constitution was not created so that one group could not oppress the other, because blacks, brown, and poor whites that didn't own land, were oppressed, and the rich, the oppressed and oppress those that weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Your God is not going to deal with Trump, anymore than the muslim god is dealing with Erdogan, or the Saudi's, or the Mullahs or the Taliban, anymore than god dealt with Hitler, Stalin Mussolini, or is dealing with Putin and Orban.

Why do you think that you are so special, That is the epitome of solipsistic narcissism.

You really don't want freedom, well you do, for your self, how about the gays, the trans, the blacks, the indigenous, the Hispanics, the immigrants, how about freedom for them.

I think that your idea of freedom is insider your personal bubble, your ability to do what you want, spend what you want, get the money you need to buy what you want, and it does not extend to the rest of society.

I think that you are an economic libertarian, and a social authoritarian.

What about the Jesus of Matthew, the Sermon on the mount, taking care of the less well off, the orphans, the widows, the cripple,the sick.

That can't be done via the churches and charity, because people are niggardly, and self centered, it can only be done via the collective, government.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

First, most of our founding Fathers were Blessed with Higher Education that enabled them to have the information and experience to develop our Constitution and operate within its Guidelines. But many of them sacrificed everything they had in the process. And it took over 100 years and a Civil War for those opportunities to expand to many in these other groups.

There is only one God, who is over all History. If you deny this, you are disagreeing with George Washington, Ben Franklin, Benjamin Rush, and many others. He is the only One who is Special. The only Authority in my life is God and His Word. Yes, if Christians were doing their Biblical job, the Government wouldn't have to.

Gays and the others you mentioned, all have equal Freedom to choose their beliefs and behavior, but they cannot choose the consequences or the outcome of their behavior.

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William Farrar's avatar

What sophistry. If I don't agree with you that there is one god who is over all history, I am disagreeing with George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush.

Well frankly there are many points on which I disagree with all of the founding fathers, they are not demigods and i have a mind of my own. Besides Thomas Jeffferson didn't believe in your god, neither did George Washington and Ben Franklin.

At best they were Masons and believed there was a great architect, we call them deists, but not the god of the Christians and Jews. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams said as much, that we are not a Christian nation.

And what do you know of the consequences of ones behavior? You know nothing,other than the shit drilled into your head. As regards consequences, believes take it too far, rather than follow the dictates of their beliefs, they seek to impose consquences here and now, rather than leave them to their god.

Which in itiself is proof that Christians and Muslims really don't believe, what they say the do, because if they did, they would leave people alone, and not try to convert them or punish them for their behavior. Because if their god is all knowing, all powerful, then he doesn't need the help of mere mortals, but mortals are weak, fearful and needy and they lack personal authority, so they invoke their god to justify their actions.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

Who said they were deists? Jefferson maybe. But I have quotes and prayers from Washington, Franklin, and Rush that prove otherwise! I have posted them in my substack comments.

I just put on our Church sign "God will Repay." What he has said always happens.

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gerald f dobbertin's avatar

Well Mr. Cantrell, history shows that people like you have refused to pay their "fair share in taxes" since Eisenhower left the White House. I never had the option of refusing to pay my income tax because it was automatically deducted from my paycheck. 97% of the working people in this country fall into the same category as ME, not YOU. WE are the people who support this country with taxes, NOT YOU.

If you do not want to pay taxes then stay off OUR public highways, stay out of OUR public parks, OUR public schools and OUR public hospitals. And when you are troubled by criminals who harm you as they violate the law, do not call OUR public police. While you are at it; stop drinking OUR public water. Try praying and ask your god or these things.

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Tim Cantrell's avatar

I drink distilled water by the gallon. I do not drink our area's "hard" water: I doubt that I will ever have arthritis.

I have paid taxes every time I bought gasoline. I would be in favor of a straight income tax of 10%, or whatever is necessary to Balance the Budget -- as REQUIRED in Missouri -- as long as spending is restricted to Constitutionally Authorized responsibilities, which I believe covers most of what you mentioned.

My God has Blessed me abundantly, in spite of what the Government does or doesn't do.

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