A caller identifying as an evangelical asked about literature that might enlighten religious people about some of the issues discussed on the program. I recalled the book from 2007, which to the best of my recollection had attempted to bridge the gap, which I found on my shelf. The book is “The Great Awakening” by Jim Wallis, with a fore…
A caller identifying as an evangelical asked about literature that might enlighten religious people about some of the issues discussed on the program. I recalled the book from 2007, which to the best of my recollection had attempted to bridge the gap, which I found on my shelf. The book is “The Great Awakening” by Jim Wallis, with a foreward by none other than Jimmy Carter. I don’t recall much about the book and I didn’t find it personally persuasive as a religious awakening, however I did attempt to get religious relatives to read it for the helpful insights and reasonableness.
The book by Susan Jacoby from 2008 entitled, “The Age of American Unreason”, also on my shelves came to mind as well, although it might be a little too liberal or challenging for most evangelicals. It’s worth looking at for certain.
There are plenty of others if one is willing to spend some time scanning Amazon’s pages. I remember discovering quite a few when looking up a book awhile back. I believe that book was “The Progressive Revolution” by Michael Lux. That one would really knock some socks off. It may have been mentioned on the show before and would be a great one to read from on the air in the future.
Other callers had talked about demanding that pictures of the children’s bodies from the school shootings be shown in the media. I don’t believe that will ever fly and I couldn’t bear seeing them having buried my own child after an accident. But I’m wondering if it would be possible to have an artist’s rendering with graphic drawings such as are used when pictures and recordings of court proceedings are portrayed.
With regard to today’s piece, I’m surprised that the tantrums on the right about the removal of school prayer from official or routine classroom sessions was not mentioned. That was right up there with desegregation and separate is unequal driving the reactionaries to desperation. Again, I must state that students who truly knew anything and had any meaningful comprehension about our government and civics were always the exception to the rule and in most cases learned from parents or an extraordinary teacher. The big STEM push might have been misguided, but the problems in our schools were legendary (see “The Great School Legend” by Colin Greer) and long preceded the 1970’s or 1980’s. The baby boomers have hardly distinguished themselves as scholars, or as people who know much about civics, history, or government, with the exception of 18 of the listeners of the Thom Hartmann show.
Am I one of the elite 18???My tail is wagging!!! Anyhow, I can claim to be a scion of Lowell High, San Francisco, 1970, and what I remember from the "civics" textbook is, Communism bad, America good. So for nuance you have to hope to stumble across, huh, what's goin' on with this Hartmann guy??? I recognize your serious references.
Did I exaggerate? Is the actual number more like 118? I am astounded daily by the awareness and insights of callers and Thom is a font of knowledge and good thinking that is unmatched anywhere or at anytime in history. But there is simply no denying that school has inspired far too few and that the true mission is to condition and program students for a society which is bent on self-perpetuation and setting limits. Schools are designed for dumbing-down and keeping the focus on trivial pursuits and behavioral modification. It wouldn't have to be that way except for compulsory attendance laws. Still, schools cannot ever deliver authentic education to more than a tiny minority. Mass education is the stuff of mythology and self-delusion on the part of idealistic and egotistical adults. For one more serious reference, look at "Philosophy in the Flesh" by Lakoff & Johnson, 1999, if you haven't heard of it before. Escaping Plato's cave might begin there and overcoming Descartes' errors is job one.
You have a point. I was raised by two schoolteachers in the "cult" of "the hidden curriculum of the middle-class home." Time-life history series, Nat'l. Geographic, and unabridged Shakespeare in my lap playing the "see if you can find what they're saying" game with "The Age of Kings" on PBS. My Mom was the first college grad in her family, and she had "Aspirations!" Including world travel. That was the "Middle Class." Was. Now all of that is demonized, and ignorance is a banner of glory. I am so, so glad I am the last of my line.
Now, I’m feeling a little envious. While my favorite aunt (Aunt Martha) was a teacher and later a school principal and my uncle was a well-known professor who served as an advisor to several presidents, the emphasis in my home was on the Bible and Sunday School lessons. We had a set of encyclopedias and my parents stressed study and good grades. But it was mostly left up to teachers to inculcate a desire to learn and to inspire curiosity and a love of learning, duties on which they fell quite short. I was the only one of four kids who went to college or has shown much interest in reading anything truly exploratory and educational and that was primarily because of the G.I. Bill, and only after I had an incredible amount of free time to read while in the Air Force for four years and after I was married with children.
I’m guessing that you have become well-rounded and well-educated more as a consequence of rejecting the academic priesthood and going out on your own to discover truth and reality. School is not just highly over-rated, it is the most significant barrier to authentic learning, growth, and discovery imaginable, contrary to common misconception. However, I wouldn’t knock Nat’l Geographic, PBS, or Shakespeare if they are merely available or used as a guide and not pushed as the end-all and be-all of life. Parents do have the right in any case to coerce, prod, egg, and badger children. Schools under the auspices of the state do not have that right, and when the state compels attendance in schools it defeats the purposes for any number of reasons.
The model in use is 180 degrees from true and useful. Knowledge is embodied. Or, did I already say that before? Students must be creating knowledge and their creation must be an amalgam, but mainly their own. I’m wondering if you have happened to read Paul Goodman, “Growing Up Absurd” & “Compulsory Miseducation & The Community of Scholars”; Dennison, “The Lives of Children”; any of the John Holt books, or “The Disposal of Liberty & Other Industrial Wastes”, by Edgar Z. Friedenberger. Tolstoy on Education was also a thrilling read. It’s all ancient history but that appears to be the only light in the dark forest to guide us out.
If a child isn't in thrall to a particular preacher, the Bible is a rich source of intellectual development. The ultimate test of congenital tolerance for cognitive dissonance, but also a mythology a la Joseph Campbell, with something to say about human nature, and I sometimes wonder whether paradox, or the experience of paradox, isn't symptomatic of being in touch with reality. I love your phrase: "Students must be creating knowledge..."
My statement about students creating knowledge is not hyperbole or some sort of platitude. Kindergartners, high school seniors and all in between, not to mention master’s degree candidates create knowledge. Knowledge exists solely in the human brain. Knowledge is the stuff of neurons, synapses, nerves, grey matter, glia, and neurochemical substances. What has traditionally and mistakenly been called knowledge, which is recorded in various media, is mere inert symbols, language, data, images, etc. This is why the expository model fails so regularly. What the student does with it depends on myriad factors. However, the resulting cognition is all that matters, and it is always exclusive in large part to that student.
I have very limited trust in my ability to interpret the Bible and less in the ability of most others. I agree that it is a rich source of intellectual development and that it does indeed confront one with a load of cognitive dissonance. However, I cannot imagine many students under the age of 21 being able to sort out the frivolous and the subjective historical passages from those which might provide meaningful insights and guidance. I believe Sam Harris had a great take on it in his book “The End of Faith”, but I only vaguely recall what the book was about.
The name Joseph Campbell was unfamiliar to me, but I remembered that his ideas were referred to in the book I just finished re-reading last week and I looked him up. What I found (and skimmed cursively) resonates with what I have long believed. The book I just finished is “The Crack in the Cosmic Egg” by Joseph Chilton Pearce. I am a loss to explain with any accuracy or brevity what Pearce is trying to get across but if you are curious about a different take on reality and encountering an alternative reality, and you haven’t read it, it seems like a book you would find provocative. Thom wrote the Foreward to the first edition of the book around 1970, although I no longer have that version and don’t know what he wrote then.
So great to share with you. Not quite getting "expository model." Had exposure to both Harris and Pearce. You did trigger memories of my formal education experience, though. I was accused of (some, speculative) plagiarizing once, because "no undergrad could have...." Forever, I have regretted my failure to stand up for myself. Took a B for what obviously was over-the top. Grad school, I got an A, with offer of reference if needed, for being creative in one class, and the lowest score in class for being creative where I had actually studied the orthodoxy more. (Wish I had that blue book!) I totally agree with you that biology is fundamental. Risk/reward in whatever social conditioning system one is subjected to is quixotic! Nature is crueler and more honest.
A caller identifying as an evangelical asked about literature that might enlighten religious people about some of the issues discussed on the program. I recalled the book from 2007, which to the best of my recollection had attempted to bridge the gap, which I found on my shelf. The book is “The Great Awakening” by Jim Wallis, with a foreward by none other than Jimmy Carter. I don’t recall much about the book and I didn’t find it personally persuasive as a religious awakening, however I did attempt to get religious relatives to read it for the helpful insights and reasonableness.
The book by Susan Jacoby from 2008 entitled, “The Age of American Unreason”, also on my shelves came to mind as well, although it might be a little too liberal or challenging for most evangelicals. It’s worth looking at for certain.
There are plenty of others if one is willing to spend some time scanning Amazon’s pages. I remember discovering quite a few when looking up a book awhile back. I believe that book was “The Progressive Revolution” by Michael Lux. That one would really knock some socks off. It may have been mentioned on the show before and would be a great one to read from on the air in the future.
Other callers had talked about demanding that pictures of the children’s bodies from the school shootings be shown in the media. I don’t believe that will ever fly and I couldn’t bear seeing them having buried my own child after an accident. But I’m wondering if it would be possible to have an artist’s rendering with graphic drawings such as are used when pictures and recordings of court proceedings are portrayed.
With regard to today’s piece, I’m surprised that the tantrums on the right about the removal of school prayer from official or routine classroom sessions was not mentioned. That was right up there with desegregation and separate is unequal driving the reactionaries to desperation. Again, I must state that students who truly knew anything and had any meaningful comprehension about our government and civics were always the exception to the rule and in most cases learned from parents or an extraordinary teacher. The big STEM push might have been misguided, but the problems in our schools were legendary (see “The Great School Legend” by Colin Greer) and long preceded the 1970’s or 1980’s. The baby boomers have hardly distinguished themselves as scholars, or as people who know much about civics, history, or government, with the exception of 18 of the listeners of the Thom Hartmann show.
Am I one of the elite 18???My tail is wagging!!! Anyhow, I can claim to be a scion of Lowell High, San Francisco, 1970, and what I remember from the "civics" textbook is, Communism bad, America good. So for nuance you have to hope to stumble across, huh, what's goin' on with this Hartmann guy??? I recognize your serious references.
Oops. Should have been "fount of knowledge". Chalk it up to premature senility.
Did I exaggerate? Is the actual number more like 118? I am astounded daily by the awareness and insights of callers and Thom is a font of knowledge and good thinking that is unmatched anywhere or at anytime in history. But there is simply no denying that school has inspired far too few and that the true mission is to condition and program students for a society which is bent on self-perpetuation and setting limits. Schools are designed for dumbing-down and keeping the focus on trivial pursuits and behavioral modification. It wouldn't have to be that way except for compulsory attendance laws. Still, schools cannot ever deliver authentic education to more than a tiny minority. Mass education is the stuff of mythology and self-delusion on the part of idealistic and egotistical adults. For one more serious reference, look at "Philosophy in the Flesh" by Lakoff & Johnson, 1999, if you haven't heard of it before. Escaping Plato's cave might begin there and overcoming Descartes' errors is job one.
You have a point. I was raised by two schoolteachers in the "cult" of "the hidden curriculum of the middle-class home." Time-life history series, Nat'l. Geographic, and unabridged Shakespeare in my lap playing the "see if you can find what they're saying" game with "The Age of Kings" on PBS. My Mom was the first college grad in her family, and she had "Aspirations!" Including world travel. That was the "Middle Class." Was. Now all of that is demonized, and ignorance is a banner of glory. I am so, so glad I am the last of my line.
Now, I’m feeling a little envious. While my favorite aunt (Aunt Martha) was a teacher and later a school principal and my uncle was a well-known professor who served as an advisor to several presidents, the emphasis in my home was on the Bible and Sunday School lessons. We had a set of encyclopedias and my parents stressed study and good grades. But it was mostly left up to teachers to inculcate a desire to learn and to inspire curiosity and a love of learning, duties on which they fell quite short. I was the only one of four kids who went to college or has shown much interest in reading anything truly exploratory and educational and that was primarily because of the G.I. Bill, and only after I had an incredible amount of free time to read while in the Air Force for four years and after I was married with children.
I’m guessing that you have become well-rounded and well-educated more as a consequence of rejecting the academic priesthood and going out on your own to discover truth and reality. School is not just highly over-rated, it is the most significant barrier to authentic learning, growth, and discovery imaginable, contrary to common misconception. However, I wouldn’t knock Nat’l Geographic, PBS, or Shakespeare if they are merely available or used as a guide and not pushed as the end-all and be-all of life. Parents do have the right in any case to coerce, prod, egg, and badger children. Schools under the auspices of the state do not have that right, and when the state compels attendance in schools it defeats the purposes for any number of reasons.
The model in use is 180 degrees from true and useful. Knowledge is embodied. Or, did I already say that before? Students must be creating knowledge and their creation must be an amalgam, but mainly their own. I’m wondering if you have happened to read Paul Goodman, “Growing Up Absurd” & “Compulsory Miseducation & The Community of Scholars”; Dennison, “The Lives of Children”; any of the John Holt books, or “The Disposal of Liberty & Other Industrial Wastes”, by Edgar Z. Friedenberger. Tolstoy on Education was also a thrilling read. It’s all ancient history but that appears to be the only light in the dark forest to guide us out.
If a child isn't in thrall to a particular preacher, the Bible is a rich source of intellectual development. The ultimate test of congenital tolerance for cognitive dissonance, but also a mythology a la Joseph Campbell, with something to say about human nature, and I sometimes wonder whether paradox, or the experience of paradox, isn't symptomatic of being in touch with reality. I love your phrase: "Students must be creating knowledge..."
My statement about students creating knowledge is not hyperbole or some sort of platitude. Kindergartners, high school seniors and all in between, not to mention master’s degree candidates create knowledge. Knowledge exists solely in the human brain. Knowledge is the stuff of neurons, synapses, nerves, grey matter, glia, and neurochemical substances. What has traditionally and mistakenly been called knowledge, which is recorded in various media, is mere inert symbols, language, data, images, etc. This is why the expository model fails so regularly. What the student does with it depends on myriad factors. However, the resulting cognition is all that matters, and it is always exclusive in large part to that student.
I have very limited trust in my ability to interpret the Bible and less in the ability of most others. I agree that it is a rich source of intellectual development and that it does indeed confront one with a load of cognitive dissonance. However, I cannot imagine many students under the age of 21 being able to sort out the frivolous and the subjective historical passages from those which might provide meaningful insights and guidance. I believe Sam Harris had a great take on it in his book “The End of Faith”, but I only vaguely recall what the book was about.
The name Joseph Campbell was unfamiliar to me, but I remembered that his ideas were referred to in the book I just finished re-reading last week and I looked him up. What I found (and skimmed cursively) resonates with what I have long believed. The book I just finished is “The Crack in the Cosmic Egg” by Joseph Chilton Pearce. I am a loss to explain with any accuracy or brevity what Pearce is trying to get across but if you are curious about a different take on reality and encountering an alternative reality, and you haven’t read it, it seems like a book you would find provocative. Thom wrote the Foreward to the first edition of the book around 1970, although I no longer have that version and don’t know what he wrote then.
So great to share with you. Not quite getting "expository model." Had exposure to both Harris and Pearce. You did trigger memories of my formal education experience, though. I was accused of (some, speculative) plagiarizing once, because "no undergrad could have...." Forever, I have regretted my failure to stand up for myself. Took a B for what obviously was over-the top. Grad school, I got an A, with offer of reference if needed, for being creative in one class, and the lowest score in class for being creative where I had actually studied the orthodoxy more. (Wish I had that blue book!) I totally agree with you that biology is fundamental. Risk/reward in whatever social conditioning system one is subjected to is quixotic! Nature is crueler and more honest.