I largely agree with your analysis, and see Putin as an ultranationalist, really a successor to the czars. For centuries Russians considered Ukrainians (and Byelorussians) as very much part of their land and culture, and the idea of losing this large and rich area to the West is simply beyond anything that he can accept. There was afte…
I largely agree with your analysis, and see Putin as an ultranationalist, really a successor to the czars. For centuries Russians considered Ukrainians (and Byelorussians) as very much part of their land and culture, and the idea of losing this large and rich area to the West is simply beyond anything that he can accept. There was after all a 1654 treaty between the czar and the head of the Ukrainian Cossacks which kind of gave Russian control to their land—at least that’s the way Moscow read it. And remember too that during the empire the Russian Orthodox Church had the position that Moscow was “The Third Rome,” the natural successor to the civilization of the Roman Empire as transmitted through its Greek successor the Byzantine Empire. I suspect in a sense the Russian Communists had a similar mindset, seeing their beliefs as a system that would enlighten and lead the world away from the evils of Capitalism. Putin is certainly no Communist, and it’s unfortunate that some Americans imagine him to be, but he is no friend of the non-Slavic people.
But as usual in this part of the world, where borders and people have long shifted and merged into each other’s groups, the situation is particularly complicated. For a big example (there are others with the Donbas area) the Crimea, has been part of Russia since Catherine the Great stole it from the Turks in 1783. And since Stalin deported its Tartar population the land has been largely inhabited by Russians. And it has an important naval base at Sevastopol which Moscow kept by lease after Ukrainian independence. Also the German battle to take it in 1941-2 was a particularly brutal affair with the heroic Soviet defense something that Russians takes great pride in. Yet in 1954 Khrushchev just gave the peninsula to Ukraine, apparent to cement support there for his own power bid. Putin’s popularity went sky high after he occupied it, following which the Kyiv government cut off the fresh water supply to its people and crops. Returning the peninsula and the canals feeding it, back to Ukraine seems like something Moscow simply could never do.
What I suspect will ultimately happen is that the war will end in a stalemate, with Russia keeping some of the lands it has occupied, including the Crimea. It will be like Cyprus or Kashmir, a frozen conflict leaving terrible feelings on both sides. I completely agree that Putin has to be stopped, though the conflict might drag on until he’s removed from the scene. After all, the Korean War pointlessly continued until Stalin died. It’s a terrible situation when a dictator uses nationalism and (at least to some extent) religion to feed his ego and whip up a population that does not know how to question what they are told. And it is an awful example for those who would imitate him.
" It’s a terrible situation when a dictator uses nationalism and (at least to some extent) religion to feed his ego and whip up a population that does not know how to question what they are told. And it is an awful example for those who would imitate him."
Trump,Orban?
Thanks for the history lesson. It puts things in perspective, but it does not justify Putin's behavior or Russia's attitude towards its neighbors.
Russia is a country that should not exist, It's a federation of "Republics" that exist only because of Stalin and is left over from the Russian Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
Russia gets its name from the Rus who did not settle in Russia but settled in Kyiv, Ukraine.
If looking for historical precedent and justification, Russia belongs to Ukraine, not the other way around.
All of history is the history of violence, invasion, murder, rape, theft, genocide. Russia and Ukraine are a flagrant example, Rus, Bulgars, Huns, Turks, Mongols, Cossacks Teutons.
Europe, the Americas the same. There is no cure, not in religion,not in ideology, not in trade, not in economics.
What is war, but one of one rich and powerful person, marshaling the resources under his suzerainty to steal the resources of a competitor. And the resources they can't command, they buy or rent aka mercenaries like the left flank of William at Hastings and Putin's Wagner group or Eric' Princes empire, what ever it is named today.
And wars between economic royalists are not bloodless either, they are just as ruinous in the lives they shatter, and the blood spilled is in terms of drops, not gallons, thus ignored.
It all started when the first biped wanted something, a woman, a club, territory, that was claimed by another. And not just bipeds either. four legged animals fight, often to the death, for breeding rights, and even those are not a prerequisite. Chimps egged on by testosterone will go on raids to kill and eat chimps of another tribe.
In a world of geometrically expanding populations and concomitant depletion of natural, resources, there is nothing but geometrically increase human suffering in the future. Wars, internal conflicts, increasing migration,culture clashes.
Most nations were created from founded and maintained on a common identity, culture. A culture based on language, religion, race some or all of which is referred to as ethnicity.
European nations were founded thus, but that is changing. Africa and the mid east, the same.
China the same, except for the likes of the UIghurs which is causing the central government a headache as it seeks to homogenize the nation.
The U.S.A. differs as it is organized around an idea, although it has not been faithful to that idea and is constantly under threat of being torn apart as factions push and pull for primacy.
Russia is neither, it's language classified as East Slavic, is a derivative, and though the linqua franca for commerce and administrative purposes, it is not the common language in all 24 Republicas as is English in all 50 states,. It is not a country bound together by an idea, race, religion, but created and maintained solely out of force.
And the hold of the central authority on the satrapy's called Republics is tenuous, if other "Republics" other than Chehnya had tried to breakway at the same time,Russia would have collapsed.
Chechnya was, all considered, a civil war, and despite the country being smaller than Ukraine, with less resoruces, weapons and manpower it lasted almost 1 year and 9 months., And only ended when Putin found a Quisling, a ruthless and mruderous one, to install as head of government.
I am sure that this is Putin's solution, to in install another Russian satrap as head of government in Ukraine, they already had one, Victor Yankovych,and Putin wants him back
Wow, you covered a lot, William. I certainly am not trying to justify Putin, but knowing what (I think) is his viewpoint is helpful. Unfortunately his model is the terrible fighting of the Second World War when entire armies were ground up against the Germans. (And never mind that Stalin utterly mishandled the situation leading up to it. He starved the Ukrainians, terrified everyone, shot his generals and then refused to believe that Hitler would invade.) So I think he sees himself as fighting it all over again. Or he may well remember Peter the Great, who stayed in a war for 21 years until beating Sweden.
The issue with Russia falling to pieces is that what comes out of this could be much worse. First, China will pick up every piece it can, either by extending its boundaries back to the pre-1860 treaty or simply economically controlling as much of Central Asia as it can. That will increase its issues with India and perhaps Iran and Turkey as well. Further west, the situation could become chaotic, with endless fighting between the small states of the Caucasus, while locations such as Tartarstan have too little in economic bases to do well (consider Moldova as an example). A vast "low pressure zone" like this is ripe for serious problems; after all, in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation.
"in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation."
We will have to leave such speculation to the future, won't we. As the man said, wrestling the alligator, "I came her to drain the swamp.
A couple of controversial points of order. The U.S. employment of troops to Russia in 1919,only aided the Bolsheviks as they were told that 1 in 5 Russians were Bolsheviks and they treated the population that way.
China does not want the Stans, there hands are full with the Uighers, and the last thing that they want are more Muslims in their country. The problem with Islam, is that more than Christians, they are fanatic faithful, and in their world, they can only be ruled by Muslims,,never a secular, especially an atheist government. A big part of the problem in Europe, especially France is that the government is completely secular and even anti religious. America differs because of it's unique construction (so far) will be different when the Dominionists take full control though
Now as regards Hitler vs Stalin. According to Viktor Suvrovov, Icebreaker: The man who started WWII, in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation. it was actually Stalin who had plans on crushing Hitler. He thought Hitler was weak and was building up his forces to attack Germany. Germany via it's excellent intelligence knew that and beat Stalin to the punch
Hans Rudel an unrepentant NAZI in his book Stuka Pilot, which I wrote a book report on in Officer Training School, stated that as he flew missions into Russia at the start of Barbarossa, he bombed airfields full of medium bombers. Stalin evidently was gearing up for an invasion.
The reason that Stalin was caught on his back foot was because he could not believe the reports, because his own intelligence had not reported, and because he did not believe the Heer and Luftwaffe were capable . Except for the tanks and some trucks the German army was horse drawn.
The fuel for horses is hay, transportation of hay bales requires more vehicles than petroleum.
The land between Poland and Russia is essentially a flat plain. Because of this Ukraine has been the bread basket of Russia, Africa and the mid east.
There is a stretch of plain, the Suwalki Gap that is the most vulnerable real estate in Europe..it is the border between Poland and Lithuanian and separates Russian Kaliningrad from Belarus.
Putin can take it without attacking Poland,only Lithuania, which was once part of the Russian and Soviet Empire.
Can that happen without confronting NATO and invoking article 5. I doubt it, but if the west backs down, for any reason, Putin will be emboldened to strike and thus the horror everyone wishes to avoid.
While everyone is musing over Moldova and Transnistra, they aren't looking at the Suwalki Gap, which is more important strategically as it is Russia's only ice free port on the Baltic.
At age 17 I stood a hulking 5'1" and 103 lbs, nine months late I was 5'8" and 118 lbs.
I grew up in a government project,went to public schools which had populations in the thousands (this was 1940's to 50's.I was never bullied after the first attempt, simply because they could not beat me. I never gave up, I never surrendered and I kept coming back until I scared the shite out of them, I wore them down.then I learned how to street fight and was a scrappy terror, much like Ukraine.
The odds were against me from the outset, but by an indomitable will, I survived and flourished.
I look at Ukraine and I see the same, and refuse to be intimidated by threat of nukes
I totally agree. I consider myself well read, almost encyclopedic in my knowledge, but Thom has added to my storehouse, immeasurably. I am so grateful that I stumbled upon him on Free Speech TV.
I largely agree with your analysis, and see Putin as an ultranationalist, really a successor to the czars. For centuries Russians considered Ukrainians (and Byelorussians) as very much part of their land and culture, and the idea of losing this large and rich area to the West is simply beyond anything that he can accept. There was after all a 1654 treaty between the czar and the head of the Ukrainian Cossacks which kind of gave Russian control to their land—at least that’s the way Moscow read it. And remember too that during the empire the Russian Orthodox Church had the position that Moscow was “The Third Rome,” the natural successor to the civilization of the Roman Empire as transmitted through its Greek successor the Byzantine Empire. I suspect in a sense the Russian Communists had a similar mindset, seeing their beliefs as a system that would enlighten and lead the world away from the evils of Capitalism. Putin is certainly no Communist, and it’s unfortunate that some Americans imagine him to be, but he is no friend of the non-Slavic people.
But as usual in this part of the world, where borders and people have long shifted and merged into each other’s groups, the situation is particularly complicated. For a big example (there are others with the Donbas area) the Crimea, has been part of Russia since Catherine the Great stole it from the Turks in 1783. And since Stalin deported its Tartar population the land has been largely inhabited by Russians. And it has an important naval base at Sevastopol which Moscow kept by lease after Ukrainian independence. Also the German battle to take it in 1941-2 was a particularly brutal affair with the heroic Soviet defense something that Russians takes great pride in. Yet in 1954 Khrushchev just gave the peninsula to Ukraine, apparent to cement support there for his own power bid. Putin’s popularity went sky high after he occupied it, following which the Kyiv government cut off the fresh water supply to its people and crops. Returning the peninsula and the canals feeding it, back to Ukraine seems like something Moscow simply could never do.
What I suspect will ultimately happen is that the war will end in a stalemate, with Russia keeping some of the lands it has occupied, including the Crimea. It will be like Cyprus or Kashmir, a frozen conflict leaving terrible feelings on both sides. I completely agree that Putin has to be stopped, though the conflict might drag on until he’s removed from the scene. After all, the Korean War pointlessly continued until Stalin died. It’s a terrible situation when a dictator uses nationalism and (at least to some extent) religion to feed his ego and whip up a population that does not know how to question what they are told. And it is an awful example for those who would imitate him.
" It’s a terrible situation when a dictator uses nationalism and (at least to some extent) religion to feed his ego and whip up a population that does not know how to question what they are told. And it is an awful example for those who would imitate him."
Trump,Orban?
Thanks for the history lesson. It puts things in perspective, but it does not justify Putin's behavior or Russia's attitude towards its neighbors.
Russia is a country that should not exist, It's a federation of "Republics" that exist only because of Stalin and is left over from the Russian Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire
Adygea.
Altai.
Bashkortostan.
Buryatia.
Dagestan.
Ingushetia.
Kabardino-Balkaria.
Kalmykia.
More items...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia
Russia gets its name from the Rus who did not settle in Russia but settled in Kyiv, Ukraine.
If looking for historical precedent and justification, Russia belongs to Ukraine, not the other way around.
All of history is the history of violence, invasion, murder, rape, theft, genocide. Russia and Ukraine are a flagrant example, Rus, Bulgars, Huns, Turks, Mongols, Cossacks Teutons.
Europe, the Americas the same. There is no cure, not in religion,not in ideology, not in trade, not in economics.
What is war, but one of one rich and powerful person, marshaling the resources under his suzerainty to steal the resources of a competitor. And the resources they can't command, they buy or rent aka mercenaries like the left flank of William at Hastings and Putin's Wagner group or Eric' Princes empire, what ever it is named today.
And wars between economic royalists are not bloodless either, they are just as ruinous in the lives they shatter, and the blood spilled is in terms of drops, not gallons, thus ignored.
It all started when the first biped wanted something, a woman, a club, territory, that was claimed by another. And not just bipeds either. four legged animals fight, often to the death, for breeding rights, and even those are not a prerequisite. Chimps egged on by testosterone will go on raids to kill and eat chimps of another tribe.
In a world of geometrically expanding populations and concomitant depletion of natural, resources, there is nothing but geometrically increase human suffering in the future. Wars, internal conflicts, increasing migration,culture clashes.
Most nations were created from founded and maintained on a common identity, culture. A culture based on language, religion, race some or all of which is referred to as ethnicity.
European nations were founded thus, but that is changing. Africa and the mid east, the same.
China the same, except for the likes of the UIghurs which is causing the central government a headache as it seeks to homogenize the nation.
The U.S.A. differs as it is organized around an idea, although it has not been faithful to that idea and is constantly under threat of being torn apart as factions push and pull for primacy.
Russia is neither, it's language classified as East Slavic, is a derivative, and though the linqua franca for commerce and administrative purposes, it is not the common language in all 24 Republicas as is English in all 50 states,. It is not a country bound together by an idea, race, religion, but created and maintained solely out of force.
And the hold of the central authority on the satrapy's called Republics is tenuous, if other "Republics" other than Chehnya had tried to breakway at the same time,Russia would have collapsed.
Chechnya was, all considered, a civil war, and despite the country being smaller than Ukraine, with less resoruces, weapons and manpower it lasted almost 1 year and 9 months., And only ended when Putin found a Quisling, a ruthless and mruderous one, to install as head of government.
I am sure that this is Putin's solution, to in install another Russian satrap as head of government in Ukraine, they already had one, Victor Yankovych,and Putin wants him back
Wow, you covered a lot, William. I certainly am not trying to justify Putin, but knowing what (I think) is his viewpoint is helpful. Unfortunately his model is the terrible fighting of the Second World War when entire armies were ground up against the Germans. (And never mind that Stalin utterly mishandled the situation leading up to it. He starved the Ukrainians, terrified everyone, shot his generals and then refused to believe that Hitler would invade.) So I think he sees himself as fighting it all over again. Or he may well remember Peter the Great, who stayed in a war for 21 years until beating Sweden.
The issue with Russia falling to pieces is that what comes out of this could be much worse. First, China will pick up every piece it can, either by extending its boundaries back to the pre-1860 treaty or simply economically controlling as much of Central Asia as it can. That will increase its issues with India and perhaps Iran and Turkey as well. Further west, the situation could become chaotic, with endless fighting between the small states of the Caucasus, while locations such as Tartarstan have too little in economic bases to do well (consider Moldova as an example). A vast "low pressure zone" like this is ripe for serious problems; after all, in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation.
"in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation."
We will have to leave such speculation to the future, won't we. As the man said, wrestling the alligator, "I came her to drain the swamp.
A couple of controversial points of order. The U.S. employment of troops to Russia in 1919,only aided the Bolsheviks as they were told that 1 in 5 Russians were Bolsheviks and they treated the population that way.
China does not want the Stans, there hands are full with the Uighers, and the last thing that they want are more Muslims in their country. The problem with Islam, is that more than Christians, they are fanatic faithful, and in their world, they can only be ruled by Muslims,,never a secular, especially an atheist government. A big part of the problem in Europe, especially France is that the government is completely secular and even anti religious. America differs because of it's unique construction (so far) will be different when the Dominionists take full control though
Now as regards Hitler vs Stalin. According to Viktor Suvrovov, Icebreaker: The man who started WWII, in 1919 after the Revolution there were 20 armies in Russia (including US, Japanese and European one), and that took years to unscramble. Throw in people vying for control of the nuclear arsenal and this becomes a very scary situation. it was actually Stalin who had plans on crushing Hitler. He thought Hitler was weak and was building up his forces to attack Germany. Germany via it's excellent intelligence knew that and beat Stalin to the punch
Hans Rudel an unrepentant NAZI in his book Stuka Pilot, which I wrote a book report on in Officer Training School, stated that as he flew missions into Russia at the start of Barbarossa, he bombed airfields full of medium bombers. Stalin evidently was gearing up for an invasion.
The reason that Stalin was caught on his back foot was because he could not believe the reports, because his own intelligence had not reported, and because he did not believe the Heer and Luftwaffe were capable . Except for the tanks and some trucks the German army was horse drawn.
The fuel for horses is hay, transportation of hay bales requires more vehicles than petroleum.
The land between Poland and Russia is essentially a flat plain. Because of this Ukraine has been the bread basket of Russia, Africa and the mid east.
There is a stretch of plain, the Suwalki Gap that is the most vulnerable real estate in Europe..it is the border between Poland and Lithuanian and separates Russian Kaliningrad from Belarus.
Putin can take it without attacking Poland,only Lithuania, which was once part of the Russian and Soviet Empire.
Can that happen without confronting NATO and invoking article 5. I doubt it, but if the west backs down, for any reason, Putin will be emboldened to strike and thus the horror everyone wishes to avoid.
While everyone is musing over Moldova and Transnistra, they aren't looking at the Suwalki Gap, which is more important strategically as it is Russia's only ice free port on the Baltic.
At age 17 I stood a hulking 5'1" and 103 lbs, nine months late I was 5'8" and 118 lbs.
I grew up in a government project,went to public schools which had populations in the thousands (this was 1940's to 50's.I was never bullied after the first attempt, simply because they could not beat me. I never gave up, I never surrendered and I kept coming back until I scared the shite out of them, I wore them down.then I learned how to street fight and was a scrappy terror, much like Ukraine.
The odds were against me from the outset, but by an indomitable will, I survived and flourished.
I look at Ukraine and I see the same, and refuse to be intimidated by threat of nukes
Who needs a college course, when you can readallaboudit in one day at hartmannreport.com?
I totally agree. I consider myself well read, almost encyclopedic in my knowledge, but Thom has added to my storehouse, immeasurably. I am so grateful that I stumbled upon him on Free Speech TV.