And it’s damn well past time that the people who conceived and ordered and facilitated the execution of this crime against all the rest of us are held to account in a meaningful way
Hear, Hear! And, once again, the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room this time seems to be the Biden Administration and the DOJ; "Where for art thou, brother?" And you know what they say, 'When you dance with a Gorilla, you're not done dancing until the Gorilla is done dancing.' Why hasn't DOJ indicted? Who's telling them to hold off? We finally have a special counsel 2 YEARS LATER?
What is it going to take to light a fire under current administration and DOJ? Now the incredibly inadequate and inept new Congress want to start investigating the Jan. 6th committee and still no one is being held accountable? My stomach turns and churns. Is there a grass roots movement happening that I'm not aware of? What part can I personally do to help? Thanks again Thom for all the light you shine! Sandi
The failure of Biden and Garland to go after these traitors, the MAGA traitors and the others like Nixon, Reagan, Bush et.al., is just more proof that the entire government is owned by the global cabal of fascist oligarchs. All that Biden and the last Congress seem to have "accomplished" and for which they are roundly congratulating themselves is all window dressing, crumbs cast to the masses to make us think there is a difference, a choice. We need PROOF that Hakeem Jeffries fiery speech is for real and not just more hot air. Politicians are great at rousing speeches without follow-through. Matt Gaetz, Lauren Bobert, MT Greene, Josh Hawley, Kevin McCarthy and the rest need to be led off the House floor in handcuffs. Trump and all his cronies need to be perp-walked out of Mar a Lago. And they should all be imprisoned for the remainder, or at least a substantial part of it, of their lives.
Many crimes and misdemeanors can be pardoned or forgiven, but not treason.
Treason may not be new, but what is definitely new is the number of people that would take it seriously. I think the hearings helped make that happen and got us to this point. The DOJ wanted the mid-terms to happen first, and on Nov 18, 2022 Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel. He was in the middle of something he just wrapped-up and just returned 6 days ago from Europe. From war crimes and now onto these cases makes Counsel Smith special indeed.
This is a monumental task; it's got to be done correctly. Even if we are feeling like the "Patience My Ass" poster, let's try to have some.
The header from a recent Bloomberg article says:
"Trump Special Counsel Bolsters Team With Anti-Graft Specialists"
-New hires prosecuted senators, governors, others in the past
-Special Counsel Jack Smith is beefing up his prosecution team
While I wonder if we even have a democracy with insurrectionists remaining in Congress and an echo chamber media that feeds Americans what they want to hear in lieu of what they need to hear (Thom Hartmann is in that category), because of our imperialist nature America has always had great influence on what happens globally. When we escalate our weapons caches and nuclear arsenals, so do other countries (purchasing weapons from us no less). Lest we forget our interference in Brazil from a coup in 1964 to Operation Car Wash from 2014 through 2018. Destabilization triggering rightward turns of foreign governments has long been a specialty of America's under Democrats and Republicans alike.
We're understandably squeamish about any serious punishment that can be perceived as "political." Understandably because the state power to punish has often enough been abused to crush the already oppressed when they rise up, and so deter further opposition and even dissent.
If, however, we believe in our democracy, then we must believe it is an adequate, if imperfect, vehicle for expressing opposition, and confine such expression to our elections and peaceful advocacy processes. Refusal to accept election results is a direct and dire threat to any democracy, however sophisticated or well established. And the bar for electoral challenges is certainly higher than "I couldn't have lost because I couldn't have lost," which is really all the US or Brazilian Stop the Stealers had to say for themselves.
Our electoral processes do need reform and greater trust-earning transparency. But that is not the case Trump or his followers (domestic or foreign) were making. Their case was that government is illegitimate and has no right to function if they didn't win. That is truly and immediately dangerous, and could have been still more deadly than it was.
The fact that those apparently responsible for Jan. 6 have not been charged, given their day in court, and, like any other defendant, if found guilty, met with punishment commensurate with their most serious crime, is a clear enough signal that our democracy's self-esteem is too low to risk upsetting a minority that already has little or no respect for it. Lenience can be a sign of understanding, compassion, and indeed strength -- but that is not the feeling that emanates from governmental timidity in this particular case.
The lack of accountability for the instigators and ringleaders has the additional very unfortunate impact of disillusioning those in the majority about justice, and anything like the equal application of the law. The public loses interest along with faith. What's the point of paying attention when we know the script has been written and, as we suspected, has no accountability in it? A jaded, cynical public can erode and corrode a democracy just as surely as an insurrectionist mob can attack it.
Thom has written many times about the 80-year cycles in American history, the great crises that have arisen and led to significant changes, and, one might argue, evolution of our society, however imperfectly and incompletely. 80 years after the founding of the Republic came the Civil War, and the near destruction of the country, saved only through the loss of 600,000 lives. Then came the Republican Great Depression and WWII. In that time the entire social and economic structure was transformed to prevent those who saw themselves as an evolutionary advancement over the rest of us throwbacks from letting their arrogance, wealth and power turn us all into slaves of their slavish and greedy objectives. It also brought about the demise of the former colonial holdings of European Empires. To me, it seems the only solution to our current dilemma is a collapse of similar magnitude to the Civil War and the Republican Great Depression - hopefully NOT a World War III - that will force a new re-establishment of our democratic - nay, our HUMAN values, and this time, learning from the shortcomings of the previous Great Transformations, we will put the systems in place that will keep it from being so corrupted and manipulated by the evil forces of great wealth and power ever again.
What next? The legitimate January 6 th investigation by a committee of upstanding lawmakers will be trashed by the perpetrators of this insurrection?
Is that how we do things in this once brilliant democracy?
Donald Trump and his core of miscreants and criminals are responsible , one more time for trashing our country and our freedoms.
In granting them a pass for their horrific actions we have entered the twilight zone of Democracy.
These perpetrators of crimes including murderers , have as yet gone unscathed to perpetuate these petty alliance’s toward destruction.
Do we have a bottom
line in this Country?
Is it politically insensitive to throw the book at these pitiful sniveling Republicans ?
Then lets be as politically insensitive as we need to be to hold these ingrates accountable. This is our country , our democracy that needs saving. The right thing needs to be done regardless of Republican whining backlash.
These people are criminals we have laws to deal with these arrogant reprobates.
George W. Bush committed both domestic and international crimes: lying to Congress and invading two sovereign nations without provocation. Today he is an honored elder statesman.
George W. Bush committed both domestic and international crimes: lying to Congress, and invading two sovereign nations without provocation. Today he is an honored elder statesman.
Thom, I suspected something when it was reported that Bolsonaro was visiting the former twice impeached, disgrace and corrupt white house tenant in his home in Florida. First, came the coup attempt in Germany, then the same attack in Brazil? What are we to think? Not to mention the suspect election of George Santos, of Brazilian ancestry? Who can forget the Manchurian Candidate.? Too much to gather it all in one place but it is not professionals like yourself. Thank you for your insight.
The question : how can we shake up this complacency ? Young black men are shot to death on one persons expectation that their up to no good. And yet adults completing treason especially adults who took an oath to up hold the Constitution ‘under God’ are free. And still spewing lies and justification of their crimes accepted by others who have also taken these oaths.
Hear, Hear! And, once again, the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room this time seems to be the Biden Administration and the DOJ; "Where for art thou, brother?" And you know what they say, 'When you dance with a Gorilla, you're not done dancing until the Gorilla is done dancing.' Why hasn't DOJ indicted? Who's telling them to hold off? We finally have a special counsel 2 YEARS LATER?
What is it going to take to light a fire under current administration and DOJ? Now the incredibly inadequate and inept new Congress want to start investigating the Jan. 6th committee and still no one is being held accountable? My stomach turns and churns. Is there a grass roots movement happening that I'm not aware of? What part can I personally do to help? Thanks again Thom for all the light you shine! Sandi
The failure of Biden and Garland to go after these traitors, the MAGA traitors and the others like Nixon, Reagan, Bush et.al., is just more proof that the entire government is owned by the global cabal of fascist oligarchs. All that Biden and the last Congress seem to have "accomplished" and for which they are roundly congratulating themselves is all window dressing, crumbs cast to the masses to make us think there is a difference, a choice. We need PROOF that Hakeem Jeffries fiery speech is for real and not just more hot air. Politicians are great at rousing speeches without follow-through. Matt Gaetz, Lauren Bobert, MT Greene, Josh Hawley, Kevin McCarthy and the rest need to be led off the House floor in handcuffs. Trump and all his cronies need to be perp-walked out of Mar a Lago. And they should all be imprisoned for the remainder, or at least a substantial part of it, of their lives.
Many crimes and misdemeanors can be pardoned or forgiven, but not treason.
Treason may not be new, but what is definitely new is the number of people that would take it seriously. I think the hearings helped make that happen and got us to this point. The DOJ wanted the mid-terms to happen first, and on Nov 18, 2022 Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel. He was in the middle of something he just wrapped-up and just returned 6 days ago from Europe. From war crimes and now onto these cases makes Counsel Smith special indeed.
This is a monumental task; it's got to be done correctly. Even if we are feeling like the "Patience My Ass" poster, let's try to have some.
The header from a recent Bloomberg article says:
"Trump Special Counsel Bolsters Team With Anti-Graft Specialists"
-New hires prosecuted senators, governors, others in the past
-Special Counsel Jack Smith is beefing up his prosecution team
That sounds good to me even if it is overdue!
While I wonder if we even have a democracy with insurrectionists remaining in Congress and an echo chamber media that feeds Americans what they want to hear in lieu of what they need to hear (Thom Hartmann is in that category), because of our imperialist nature America has always had great influence on what happens globally. When we escalate our weapons caches and nuclear arsenals, so do other countries (purchasing weapons from us no less). Lest we forget our interference in Brazil from a coup in 1964 to Operation Car Wash from 2014 through 2018. Destabilization triggering rightward turns of foreign governments has long been a specialty of America's under Democrats and Republicans alike.
We're understandably squeamish about any serious punishment that can be perceived as "political." Understandably because the state power to punish has often enough been abused to crush the already oppressed when they rise up, and so deter further opposition and even dissent.
If, however, we believe in our democracy, then we must believe it is an adequate, if imperfect, vehicle for expressing opposition, and confine such expression to our elections and peaceful advocacy processes. Refusal to accept election results is a direct and dire threat to any democracy, however sophisticated or well established. And the bar for electoral challenges is certainly higher than "I couldn't have lost because I couldn't have lost," which is really all the US or Brazilian Stop the Stealers had to say for themselves.
Our electoral processes do need reform and greater trust-earning transparency. But that is not the case Trump or his followers (domestic or foreign) were making. Their case was that government is illegitimate and has no right to function if they didn't win. That is truly and immediately dangerous, and could have been still more deadly than it was.
The fact that those apparently responsible for Jan. 6 have not been charged, given their day in court, and, like any other defendant, if found guilty, met with punishment commensurate with their most serious crime, is a clear enough signal that our democracy's self-esteem is too low to risk upsetting a minority that already has little or no respect for it. Lenience can be a sign of understanding, compassion, and indeed strength -- but that is not the feeling that emanates from governmental timidity in this particular case.
The lack of accountability for the instigators and ringleaders has the additional very unfortunate impact of disillusioning those in the majority about justice, and anything like the equal application of the law. The public loses interest along with faith. What's the point of paying attention when we know the script has been written and, as we suspected, has no accountability in it? A jaded, cynical public can erode and corrode a democracy just as surely as an insurrectionist mob can attack it.
Thom has written many times about the 80-year cycles in American history, the great crises that have arisen and led to significant changes, and, one might argue, evolution of our society, however imperfectly and incompletely. 80 years after the founding of the Republic came the Civil War, and the near destruction of the country, saved only through the loss of 600,000 lives. Then came the Republican Great Depression and WWII. In that time the entire social and economic structure was transformed to prevent those who saw themselves as an evolutionary advancement over the rest of us throwbacks from letting their arrogance, wealth and power turn us all into slaves of their slavish and greedy objectives. It also brought about the demise of the former colonial holdings of European Empires. To me, it seems the only solution to our current dilemma is a collapse of similar magnitude to the Civil War and the Republican Great Depression - hopefully NOT a World War III - that will force a new re-establishment of our democratic - nay, our HUMAN values, and this time, learning from the shortcomings of the previous Great Transformations, we will put the systems in place that will keep it from being so corrupted and manipulated by the evil forces of great wealth and power ever again.
What next? The legitimate January 6 th investigation by a committee of upstanding lawmakers will be trashed by the perpetrators of this insurrection?
Is that how we do things in this once brilliant democracy?
Donald Trump and his core of miscreants and criminals are responsible , one more time for trashing our country and our freedoms.
In granting them a pass for their horrific actions we have entered the twilight zone of Democracy.
These perpetrators of crimes including murderers , have as yet gone unscathed to perpetuate these petty alliance’s toward destruction.
Do we have a bottom
line in this Country?
Is it politically insensitive to throw the book at these pitiful sniveling Republicans ?
Then lets be as politically insensitive as we need to be to hold these ingrates accountable. This is our country , our democracy that needs saving. The right thing needs to be done regardless of Republican whining backlash.
These people are criminals we have laws to deal with these arrogant reprobates.
We must use them .
George W. Bush committed both domestic and international crimes: lying to Congress and invading two sovereign nations without provocation. Today he is an honored elder statesman.
End of message.
"The timidity of the Biden administration and Merrick Garland’s Department of Justice would rightly horrify them."
And many of us too...
George W. Bush committed both domestic and international crimes: lying to Congress, and invading two sovereign nations without provocation. Today he is an honored elder statesman.
End of comment.
Thom, I suspected something when it was reported that Bolsonaro was visiting the former twice impeached, disgrace and corrupt white house tenant in his home in Florida. First, came the coup attempt in Germany, then the same attack in Brazil? What are we to think? Not to mention the suspect election of George Santos, of Brazilian ancestry? Who can forget the Manchurian Candidate.? Too much to gather it all in one place but it is not professionals like yourself. Thank you for your insight.
The question : how can we shake up this complacency ? Young black men are shot to death on one persons expectation that their up to no good. And yet adults completing treason especially adults who took an oath to up hold the Constitution ‘under God’ are free. And still spewing lies and justification of their crimes accepted by others who have also taken these oaths.
.
Agreed , these crimes are not to be trifled with . Though it seems in recent years many of these treasonous acts are in fact trifled with .