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I had a recent experience with a bunch of Zoomers. They had serious knowledge gaps that reflected the civics and history classes they never got. It was, at most, a minimal handicap.

When I mentioned something, their phones would whip up, they'd start typing, and each would read off something significant about whatever I'd mentioned. By the time the phones went down, they had decent comprehension and usually I'd learned something new.

From what I saw, we don't need to worry about the Zoomers.

To me, there's a different, HUGE demographic out there that we are ignoring. I travel a lot thru the white part of America, and when I can, I'll pose these five goals to anyone willing to talk. Most people I speak to don't vote, and the rest are split 50/50, but almost everyone agrees with my five goals, which are nothing but Bernie's platform with the details removed.

First, US laws must apply the same way to everyone.

Second, Government should not tell people how to live

Third, I only want my tax dollars spent where I save money or make money.

Fourth, We need taxation, education, and health care systems that a normal person can understand.

Fifth: Every kid that qualifies for trade school, apprenticeship, or college should be able to go.

These are Progressive goals, with the details boiled off the bones. I rarely hear disagreement.

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Darkness of the Tomb OR Darkness of the Womb?

Thanks Thom for this hopeful perspective. One of the speakers at a recent Bioneers Conference addressed her potential for a brigher future:

America is battling for its soul. There’s a darkness over the country that can be characterized by gloom or hope: “Is this the darkness of the tomb – or the darkness of the womb?”

“Although we’ve mounted a powerful resistance to tyranny, injustice and violence during the Trump era, with 202[2] in sight, we need more than resistance. We need to birth a new America. The extraordinarily passionate and effective civil rights attorney, faith leader and activist Valarie Kaur shares why she’s convinced that what our times demand is Revolutionary Love. It’s an orientation to life and our movements that harnesses all of the body’s emotions—grief, rage, and joy—and calls us to our highest bravery. We need to reclaim love as a form of sweet labor—fierce, demanding, and life-giving —and draw from the wisdom of the midwife: when in labor, breathe and push!"

We can't let the oligarchs bury our democratic experiment. We must bury them!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIrl_Ob0jvg, 2019 Bioneers conference.

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It’s a hopefully sentiment, but probably too early to be sure. Cycles in history or economics may well exist, and people have suggested ones that are from a few months to several centuries long, but one has to be careful not to cheery pick the data too. America had terrible depressions in many other years besides 1857 and 1929 (though to be fair these were often on a 20 year cycle until the federal government took more control of the economy). And the parameters change! Life expectancy has more than doubled since the American Revolution, so presumably the average age of people active in government and economic affairs has also gone up.

That said, I do notice with many of my college students (often in their 20s and 30s) that they want to study environmental science. They know and understand what is happening to the earth. Also when I’m substitute teaching in junior or senior high schools the kids just don’t care about each other’s races or religions. And they are so connected to the world and can see (if not always completely grasp) other cultures. Such things give me hope and on that basis you may well be right. Like the shift from Eisenhower to Kennedy, the current generation of older people won’t stay in power that much longer and more open minded people may gain power.

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Thanks for bringing up "The Fourth Turning" today, Thom, and again for your bringing the Strauss & Howe book to my attention several years ago. I've read it three times...and took a deep dive into it. So I'm going to try to offer a slightly different take on what you are calling "The Great Forgetting." I have a slightly darker view of this 4th Turning that has regularly occurred every 80 or so years since the War of the Roses in England in the 1400's. The key factor that caught my attention when studying this book was the fact that our generation, Thom, the Boomers--called generically by the authors the "Prophet Generation"--was for some reason the catalyzing group in their later years that caused the 4th Turning to occur. This generation starts out as "prophets" but ends up causing a cataclysmic mess--for reasons I'll get into shortly. But first, just consider who has been the leader of our recent surge in facism--Donald J. Trump, a Boomer. And what generation do Putin, Erdogan, & other autocrats around the world belong to? Who went BIG for Trump in 2016 & 2020 & 2022? Our generation--the Boomers ! Our generation !

No, we did NOT FORGET what happened in the Great Republican Depression nor WWII--our knowledge and adherence to the facts were OVERRIDDEN by the personal interests of our Boomer generation--unleashed big time by Ronald Reagan's "Greed is Good" mantra in the 1980's...eh? And here is where I'm puzzled why Strauss & Howe did not delve into the dichotomous forces at play throughout all six of their Fourth Turnings--and clearly point out that these crises come around every 80 years or so due to the dueling forces in the human psyche of authoritarian vs. egalitarian sentiments. As I view it now, the small-self-centered, immature, violent-oriented part of our human nature comes to the fore during the 4th Turning and causes the egalitarian part of our society--the youth--to fight back. Also missing from their book, the authors failed to make the huge point that the outcomes of all 6 of those 4th Turnings have been a score of 6 for the egalitarians and 0 for the authoritarians. Wow! Really Great ! Eh? Of course, the authors also pointed out that future outcomes--like an investment in the stock market--are not guaranteed to be the same. But like you, I'm encouraged that Gen Z is engaging in this struggle and really helping to tip the balance toward the egalitarian side. I tip my hat to AOC for her spot-on highlighting this fact--and the possibility of a brighter future of sharing & caring....vs. dividing & killing....if all of us fight for it together.

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This is so inspiring, and raises our awareness so much. I have thought about how i can be helpful to zoomers and will continue to so - through writing, discussion, music and history lessons. Literature. But somehow getting involved in their world. I hope part of their world is a recognition that big tech and big data must be demonopolized and decentralized so as not subject to control by power elite and business concerns. (Stuff like mastodon may be a good sign of whats possible for networking socially).

But we have to help Zoomers recognize and rid society of so many corruptions, just look at crypto investing as an example of scam mentality dominating.

Tom its critical to have work like yours where the focus is on learning and is potentially on everything out there in the world and not just in the crazy stuff tucker or lindsay or trump said yesterday.

We can point zoom is to C-SPAN and link to a 1985 program in which Ralph Cippoline and Carl Sagan testified before the U.S. Senate about climate change. We can point out that the head of the committee in the Senate was republican senator Durenberger who also proposed an "economic bill of rights" similar in scope and details to the one proposed by FDR when he called political opponents of such a thing "fascists".

We can point out that today's Democrats don't seem to support any such kind of economic bill of rights.

I am very concerned that the two party system is frustrating everyone's attempts and otherwise applicable trends that enable this 80 year transformation to take place.

I don't agree that a constitutional amendment is necessarily relevant to achieve more three party elections, at least as to federal elections, Because the elections clause in article 1 is broad enough or can be interpreted as being broad enough to require three candidates and run-off voting in all federal elections because it allows Congress to regulate the "manner" of elections. This is precisely the biggest secret that the power elite don't want anyone to know they want us to except the stupidity system without question and they simply cannot fathom what it would be like if there was some third-party on the stage in the debate making it seem completely irrational when one party says there should be no national healthcare system, for example.

Again Thom you've been so helpful and right on top of things when you got focused on the voting issues and your recent book....

I was so angry when I read the brynovich arizona (us s ct) decision because I had seen on the day it came out Pete Williams the mild-mannered MSNBC man on the street who explained to everyone with a series of points written on the screen that most of the restrictions in Arizona that the Supreme Court upheld were either already in place or weren't that significant .....then I went and read the case and saw how alito basically took a whole series of Warren court decisions about democracy and ignored all of them stood them and basically wiped out the whole conception of democracy as a fundamental right.

So for weeks we are sort of this election as being "democracy on the ballot" yet we have lovely individuals like Jen psaki (her P is silent) telling us on cnn television that what voters really care about in this election is .... crime!

Marc s

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As a radical Boomer I’m pulling for the Zoomer generation to end this nightmare and perhaps lead us to a better world. I sure hope so. That said I too was fascinated a bit with the Fourth Turning, but to tell you the truth it kinda reminds me of numerology and kabbala.

I just don’t believe ideas and events end or begin in cyclic, although my mind tends to want to find the death of Queen Victoria and that of Queen Elizabeth as being a Turning and therefore harbinger of events to come. You know like another horrific world war killing tens of millions for no good reason than to satisfy the ego of insane people.

BTW happy anniversary to you both!

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founding

More enlightenment, understanding and comprehension. Thanks Thom.

As one who was born at the end of the Boomer Generation, I held great expectations in my youth that we would be the ones to make America, and by extension, the world, a more 'perfect union'. Gee, was I out to lunch!!!! Boomers are the greediest, most arrogant of generations. We royally screwed the pooch. What I see in the Zoomers, like David Hogg and many others, it the enthusiasm and idealism I had and lost. They have reignited my belief in the future. It will be a slog to get through. But, Zoomers have the brains, desire, motivation and compassion to figure it out. I will do what I can to support their efforts.

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Nov 11, 2022·edited Nov 11, 2022

No generation escapes the statistics. A certain percentage will be psychopaths, sociopaths, thieves, liars, religious nuts, and abusers of every stripe. The difference will always be in knowing what to do about them, discovering what creates them, and having the courage to confront them.

I am certain there are turnings, and we are watching one happen.

Perhaps it has to do with the generation at the beginning of the period refusing to give up. Boomers were one of the most divided generations EVER. But, those of us who loved our hippy values did not lose them. We melted into the work force and kept fighting the status quo and the phony societal conventions we shed earlier.

Zoomers will have those stats concerning people to deal with just like everyone else. Their advantage will be in the science, communication, and free information available. They are going to need to use it wisely, we are about to hit the 8 billion mark.

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Thank Heavens. I have been so frightened for our Democracy. Now we have a chance🙏

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The earth (gaia) naturally precesses in her orbit one-degree every 72 years. Think of the young generation of the #Christ, as well, of which John was the youngest. Movers and shakers all that can carry the load with their hybrid vigor. Salute! We are now "off the cusp" of #Pisces. Time to throw off the dogmatic confines of oppression and enter the new 'Age of #Akuarius'!

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Our much celebrated Democratic president Clinton abolished the protections we had in the Glass-Steagall legislation that had protected us since 1933 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_legislation. Later, after the 2008 global crash he protested loudly that his actions had nothing to do with the following crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_legislation.

This is most likely because of the US 2-party system: Both parties are 100% funded by large global and US corporations; the labels Democratic and Republican are mere deceptive PR strategies to lull 'lazy' voters into a hopeful voting pattern believing in the respective temporal election promises.

Both Presidents Clinton and Obama were servants of Corporate America and lulled us 'The Voters' into believing that they were 'Servants of the People.'

Now we are looking at Mr. Hartman's clever analysis of the 80-year cycle, and perhaps we should look at the 'distractions' of such engineered events as the Ukraine War, the Covid Re-set and the odd events surrounding the US Endless War historical scenario without, of course, falling into the sad labeling of calling anyone adherents of conspiracies. One might just look at the confluence of money flows and profits between 1980-2022, and compare that, perhaps, to similar historical eventsof the Gilded Age of the 1920-30s leading up to WWII. The financial manipulations between American and European investors between WWI and WWII are matters of history, but also subject to the 80 year cycle of a 'Harddrive' wipe of our collective memory https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/americans-who-funded-hitler-nazis-german-economic-miracle-eger

Thus the astute questioning all responsible adults should be doing as we-lemmings are marched over the cliffs is, perhaps: Who has been making the money in the 2019-2022, and who is selling the next profit scenario for our collective masters?

Looking at the US 2022 Mid-Term elections it would be worthwhile to tally up the percent of legislators, state and federal that voters simply re-elected, again. Instead of never voting for any incumbent legislator. https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/reelection-rates

Pairing this data with voter participation many may despair at our collective ability to vote rationally and effectively in our own best interest https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_elections

Like Mr. Hartman I have had the blessings of living and working in many of the world's cultures and market places, and I am praying every day that America and its voters will not go the way of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini et.al., and find a governance balance that will respect the needs of both urban and rural communities.

Mr. Clinton and Mr. Obama both own a significant responsibility for the 1980-2020 reign of corporate governance, and it would be foolish to assume their Democratic heirs are not making similar deals with the Devil(s) like Mr. Clinton made with the Glass-Stegall repeal and the Obama care no-solution.

Just look at how Senators Murrary and Durbin are serving their pharmaceutical corporation masters by trying to make personal healthcare more expensive https://anh-usa.org/durbin-anti-supplement-bill/

The Democratic Party has lost a huge section of voters working against the millions of people who now vote with Alternative Practioners https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/according-new-government-survey-38-percent-adults-12-percent-children-use-complementary-alternative-medicine.

Mr. Hartman's citations:

Why every fourth generation? Arnold Toynbee, it is said, had the answer to that:

“When the last man who remembers the horrors of the last great war dies, the next great war becomes inevitable.”

It takes 80 years, he argued, for what Daniel Quinn called a “great forgetting” to happen, forcing a society or nation to learn its lessons all over again.

We repeat mistakes we don’t remember. Or make even worse mistakes.

If there had been a single senator in the Senate in 1999 when Phil Graham suggested doing away with Glass-Steagall, arguing that it was no longer needed because it had worked so well, they would’ve laughed him out of the building. But all the people in the Senate in the 1930s — when Glass-Steagall saved our nation from the banking crisis of the Republican Great Depression — were long dead. Almost 80 years had passed.

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"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future" - Yogi Berra (Haha, sorry, couldn't resist.)

Far be it for me to pour cold water on Democratic schadenfreude -- God knows a little positivity and levity at the well-deserved expense of Republican arrogance and overconfidence is always a welcome relief in the otherwise gloomy zeitgeist and liberal angst over elections, also well-deserved. Sometimes politics can be fun even in defeat.

Therein lies the rub: Losing Congress, either one or both houses, is a major defeat for Democrats no matter how the results are sliced and diced and reimagined. Sure, it could have been worse -- a lot worse! -- but it's a huge loss nonetheless, irrespective of the seemingly miraculous bucking of historical trends in midterms for the supposed "party in power," meaning primarily the White House, since Congress is mired in hopeless gridlock and promises to remain so for at least another two years.

Rightly or wrongly, Democratic "leaders" succeeded in scaring the crap out of their voters to whip them to the polls, the drop-off boxes, or the Post Office -- whatever, just vote goddammit! Of course, they were greatly assisted by rabid Republicans who just couldn't help themselves in pissing-off most normal human beings who still possess functioning brain cells.

So that worked. Now, it's on to 2024. Can Democrats improve their learning curve even further with the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene and cohorts fully transforming the "people's house" into an open-air cesspool of toxicity, which will make the first two years of the Biden Administration seem like a kumbaya moment of bipartisan tranquility? As they say, strap in, because it's gonna get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

So, Democrats need to keep mainlining fear and anger ...because it works! Unfortunately. Ask a Republican. Hope does too, just not as much. Sorry for being cynical.

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Tears-o-Joy…🙏❤️Thom

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Here's the real crisis of democracy and a crisis that was not caused by only Republicans. In fact, this core crisis is being propagandized by you Thom Hartmann, Joe Biden, the liberal media and the Democratic Party. Oh, and in this clip there is one of your lies dispelled when you were shouting me down as spreading Putin's propaganda. Sad to see you become a part of American Empire in order to save Biden's presidency and cover for the militarism and poor judgment of Democrats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fTxHIVUjRc

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Well, put! ... RE: "We have to gang up on the really bad guys" ... "Knowledge Transition"? Calling all `pro bono` attys of substance ... When I have #Elon in front of Chief Justice John Glover Roberts, Jr., we'll school #Elon about #CFS or "Corporate Free Speech". And, then we'll collect our Benefit Corporation's TREBLE damages! #MMINAIL

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Your sentiments are fine, but your arithmetic is garbage. You are miscounting generations. The silent generation was the group that gave birth to the boomers, but you are placing them too late in time. Boomers are thought of as 1946-1964. Look at the Pew article please and don't send out messages that do not make any sense. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/17/where-millennials-end-and-generation-z-begins/

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