86 Comments

When will Christians awaken to the fact that the Bible informs them to not have any traffic with anyone and I mean anyone that lies small or big ones. When will they read it and find that being afraid or fearful is exactly what you are not suppose to do? So simple but beyond their character to accept responsibility for their own actions but must blame as Adam did everyone but themselves for it.

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Unfortunately, one can find justification for a lot of contradictory, and even bad, things in the Bible, if one reads the verses as though each one were offering an edict for one’s behavior. I’ve read long lists of awful behavior in the Bible that seem to support monstrous actions {even holding slaves, and allowing your own young daughters to be assaulted by a mob in place of assaulting protected men}. There’s even a few verses that tell of God’s wrath against enemies, and his determination to kill all who “piss against the wall.” See Samuel and Kings for examples. It actually means he’s going to kill all the men {people who pee standing up instead of squatting or sitting down}, but one MIGHT say God wants us go out and slay anybody who dares to piss against a wall. It stands to reason, by reading the verses…the death penalty for pissing against a wall.}

Evangelicals who lionize Trump, by these lights, look to the ways in which their God used bad men and outright evil for his own purposes. {See Proverbs 16:4 – ‘The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.’ I just read a treatise on the Exodus and other passages, written by a Christin preacher teaching this very idea — that one should not discount God using EVERYTHING that exists, because literally everything is in his toolbox, to teach people and reach people. So if it seems like he’s using evil to achieve his goals, that’s his way. I won’t link to it, because I think it’s perverse. The date on it is 2019. Wonder why he wrote it then.}

But, clearly, they have been out there for a long time championing the evil we see in the world as a tool to bring more people to God, who loves {?} them.

{I have seen fewer of these Bible verses in the words ascribed to the Christ himself, but the Bible is no place to look for how to be a good person on this planet. It has a lot of stories to think about and maybe help people form a values matrix, but it’s fraught with all kinds of contradictions and scary stuff, all mixed in with some nice stuff.}

And now, apparently, God is using Trump to “own” the libs and usher in the Right Wing Evangelical Theocracy. And it’s just desserts for those godless libs, isn’t it!!. Then the Republicans get all caught up in the lies, and forget that they’re not supposed to BE the bad men, just use one.

It’s a minefield out there.

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The Old Testament has always puzzled me, but at least it got marijuana de-criminalized.

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OK, score one for the good guys, Mac

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Any argument that begins with "God says" is a loser.

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Pat, Luke 19:27, Jesus commands his disciples to bring before him those that don't believe and slay them. Luke 22:36 Sell your cloak and buy a sword.

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I din’t say there is NOTHING ascribed to Jesus that hews to violence, William.

I said “fewer.”

AND anyway, the first of those verses looks different in the context of the story {which was one of my points}. The story says WHEN the Kingdom is established {which for Christianity would be after the Second Coming and the End Times}, those who did not convert would be destroyed. It was not a set of commands for any of the followers in the meantime.

We all know the nasty prognostications in Revelation about how the unbelievers will be cast into hell ..{and by “unbelievers,” the early Christians meant Jews.}

I’m less convinced about various explanations for the meaning of the “buy a sword,” but Bible scholars put the writing of Luke down to maybe a Christian follower of Paul or a Hellenic Jew. Paul and “Luke” did not meet the Christ, according to the history extant {for what it’s worth}.

You have, anyway, quoted a couple of verses out of context, which is exactly my point about why we are not well advised to turn to the Bible for advice on “what to do.”

Tsk.

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Please, learn to appreciate metaphor. We run into ascribing ill intent to misuse of what we have been endowed with. The Bible offers esoteric wisdom and symbolism; if we view it literally, we won't understand its meaning.

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How is one to know what is and what is not a metaphor.

I've studied the bible, cover to cover,first time at 12 second time at 40. It offers nothing of value, and has anything in it for everyone, from Genocide and murder and slavery to redemption and sacrifice.

It is a buffet for those who need external justifiaction for their fears and needs.

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Ecept for the fact that religion is a psychological tourniquet applied in the service of politics. Power, to be precise. Only a wise person can recognize esoteric symbolism and find a positive use for it. Others will misuse it, as they always have. Caution is strongly advised.

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Why should one believe anything that Luke is said to have said? Separating wheat from chaff only requires common sense. It's time to add Republicans to the great heap of chaff polluting human history.

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Apparently Mike Johnson has awakened somewhat, after church services yesterday he was interviewed on the street and said, that after praying on it, he will put forward, when Congress comes back, the bill to aid Ukraine. And after Trump came out with that bible sales shtick, Biden has taken a 5 point lead over Trump, however the hard core MAGAts would vote for him, if the Pope and televangelists declared him the antichrist.

Trump's MAGAts are only Christians because they use their Jesus as a sock puppet, and there is enough in the bible to rationalize any point of view from the Sermon on the mount to Luke 19:27 where he tells his disciples to bring any who would not have Jesus reign over them and slay them in front of him.

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I think you are referring to an April Fool's Day riff when you say, Apparently Mike Johnson has awakened somewhat, after church services yesterday he was interviewed on the street and said, that after praying on it, he will put forward, when Congress comes back, the bill to aid Ukraine." Sorry, you were fooled! [Or, I hope, we weren't!]

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They won't. They are brain damaged, in the sense that they are completely brainwashed in their thinking, and incapable of critically seeing anything. They won't hear anything that conflicts with their belief system. A number of authors have outlined this, particularly neuroscientists such as Dr. George Lakoff, and others like Andrew Seidell and Anat Shenker-Osario. The lies they are told and have incorporated into their very essence of being are now strongoy imbedded in their brains.

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What I say? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa_qE3hpVas

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1954: I had to sing that in 3rd grade Sunday School. When my mother found out she put a stop to it.

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It was the theme as we went on operation in Vietnam.

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I'm glad you made it out. What a dumb song, about the Crusades no less.

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I want our system,purportedly one that respects laws, due process, the peaceful transition of power when that happens, to prevail in November. It can only do that if President Biden is re-elected and, frankly, there is a blue wave across the country.

But Thom reminds us that TFG and his cultists are vengeful opponents of all that America purports to be, hungry for chaos, anarchy, dominion over the rest of us, eagerly employing violence and the threat of it in aid of their objectives. Let us all be clear on one thing: decent Americans may be too placid, but even they can only be pushed so far. So I have a message for the morbidly rich, their puppet TFG, and his deplorable cultists: never forget that those who live by the sword can, and will, die by the sword.

I pray it will not come to that, for our country and the world. But if it does, the dark forces stalking our country have been warned. You are not the only ones able to take advantage of your warped view of the Second Amendment. Those who oppose you do not speak about that openly—we just silently prepare. And if you make the mistake of resorting to force, you will be in for a very rude shock.

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To prevail. Millions of unregistered women nationally trend heavily Democratic. Register Democrats -- save Democracy.

https://www.fieldteam6.org/mission

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Yessir, for sure. We need their votes way the hell more than we need anyone’s guns, Daniel.

We had some scary years a handful of decades ago and we weathered it

{I proofread this, but didn’t change anything but typo] The US had 203,300,000+ people here in 1970.

We have added more than half-again as many more now — 333,300,000+ now.

I sure do worry about what would happen if even a few hundred thousand got their dander up enough to start shooting at people.

That’s no solution, no way, no how. It’s the road to hell, paved with bullets.

We need to GET OUT THE VOTE.

Said LOUD and said OFTEN, with arguments to support the need to

VOTE BLUE.

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Correct Pat, the Road to Hell is paved with bullets, and fearfully the MAGAts have most of them, their homes are like an armory.

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They are William, and they scare me.

I do NOT want for the rest of the world to follow suit.

The world that still, ostensibly, lives by the law HAS the law to oppose the MAGAs —the law did oppose them on Jan. 6 {and one of those law officers, Harry Dunn, is now running for congress!}. The Rs are planning to gut the law, if they get into office again, to prevent it from opposing them ever again.

We need to use our VOTE and maintain {and really IMPROVE} our access to the law to keep the Armory of the MAGAs at bay.

We seriously want to avoid taking to the streets.

VOTE BLUE.

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I certainly want to avoid taking to the streets, though I live on an Island, population 10,0000, two towns no traffic lights or big box stores or franchies, and the island is a Democratic stronghold, there are still some MAGATs, like the one with oversized wheels on his pick up, that drives around with huge American flag stuck into a bale of hay.

Some fools tried to flaunt the wear a mask rule at our one only , locally owned supermarket, the Sheriff came arrested them for disturbing the peace, and they were banned from entering our supermarket, I heard hat they moved off island..

don't own a gun, because I don't need one, and I wouldn't shoot an animal if I did. I feed a fox and her kits, and a family of raccoons with table scraps and unused cat food. Deer graze on my lawn front and back,and I don't eat meat, or fowl, shrimp ceviche, shrimp salad, and breaded though, and occasional fish sticks but not much, because of the breading, I avoid simple carbs because of pre diabetes and cancer.

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Sounds wonderful. You didn't say where. And most of us likely cannot afford to move there.

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All sounds nice,

My brother and sister-in-law decided years ago to stop eating anything with a face.

I’m not as nice a they are, but I do avoid killing things.

Not eating them, just killing them. Someone else kills the ones I eat.

I tend to keep people alive, as long as practicable. Ones I know, anyway.

I’d shoot a gun at someone who needed shooting. I’m glad I have not met any such people, though, because I don’t have a gun, either.

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85% of gun owners support background checks.

And kiss the children for me, please, before you go

'Cause I won't be able to resist my rage

And the gun that's hanging on the kitchen wall, dear

Is like the road sign pointing straight to Satan's cage

Is like the road sign pointing straight to Satan's cage

FT6 only registers Democrats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkatnTSEAcY

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LOL: Thanks for the link. , Daniel , I couldn't make out all of the words, then again not a big fan of Country and Rap, both all sound the same to me, and most times the words are indecipherable. I will be paying more attention now that artists of slave descent are breaking into country music

I am interested now, on a whim I checked Jewish Country Western Singers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_country_singers

Now to do some research. Seems the genre is not completely the domain of bigots.

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Actually "country" is the blues. 8 bar and 12 bar. Lots of Black country performers plus a lot of "crossovers". White radio stations refused to play "race" music, so the songs were "covered."

These days, Americana music is the preferred genre. https://americanamusic.org/

"Jazz" is contemporaneous. Jazz is klezmer and vice versa. IMHO much of it came from the Spanish American War experience. Syncopation. Call and response. I wrote about it in Breaking Up with Cuba. E.G. Contra-son is jitterbug.

Many Jewish performers also crossed over, especially at the onset of radio. My favorite station, 50,000 watts, was WLAC Nashville, John R. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R.

I grew up with the horses, listened to WWVA in Wheeling WV, rode in "horse shows" when my cutting horse could take me to the finals in "musical chairs" which was a full contact sport. The preferred music in the trot, canter, etc was "Rock a Billy". Chuck Berry. Little Richard.

When I first took lessons the teacher asked me what I wanted. "I want to sound just like Chuck Berry." "Who's Chuck Berry", he asked.

One of my former colleagues introduced me as "Hopalong Catskill" because I punched dem cattle and dey punched me back.

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You mean Black artists, William?

They’re not ALL descended from enslaved people.

But Black people in general, no matter what their ancestry, WERE discriminated against in the music industry.

So, there is that …

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I "pray" it will not come to that also, Roy. "Violence, but I am also aware that the MAGAts are armed to the teeth, and liberals, have virtually disarmed, exceptions of course, but MAGAts own arsenals, and rush out to by more, when they hear the words gun control. While liberals,by and large, are allergic, like Stephanie Miller, to guns.

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Our judges need to grow a set and lock this pompous rear end up and stop this clown from projecting this image of invincibility.

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The opposition has imported another book. It's Easter Monday. {I have no standing, as I am an infidel, but} WHAT ABOUT THE ORANGE ANTICHRIST COOPTING CHRISTIANITY? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_offense#:~:text=Heresy%20(wrong%20choice)%20means%20questioning,especially%20disloyalty%2C%20sedition%20and%20defection

What do the Catholic bishops, even the Pope have to say about that?

The DNCC should advertise on CBN! BEWARE of the Orange ANTICHRIST!!

HOLY JOES FOR JOE! https://www.votecommongood.com/

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Apr 1·edited Apr 1

Hitler did it. Franco did it. Mussolini did it. And the church was all in. So my family all quit being Christians long before i was born.

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The Bishops are the most adamant Trump supporters and the Pope says nothing for fear of alienating American Catholics, he has enough trouble with American bishops Daniel.

There is a lot the DNC should do, but they are cowards.

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Is Trump the second coming?

Rhetorical question. Ans. NO.

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“Holy Joes for Joe!”

That is adorable.

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My best friend and I have talked politics together for 60 years and our conversations usually have dwindled down to the perennial question, how bad does it have to get before Americans recognize what Republican policies and cultural paranoia are doing to us and reverse course" How bad does it have to get before people rebel against the de-regulation tax-cutting rich. Is this finally bad enough? 60 years is a long time to be waiting for Americans to wake up. I'm tired. Now my old friend is dying. She will choose her time to die. It will be after she votes for Biden, but she'd rather be dead than see Trump win. On-the-other-hand, she wants to live to see Biden win. I hope that is how she goes. For all our sakes.

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Carolyn. What did I say to cause you to be so dismissive and condescending? Have I offended you? What the heck?

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You're not funny and neither is your trolling.

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Enjoy yourself then.

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Apr 1·edited Apr 1

FDR never armed a genocide...but we know who did. We also know some corporations who supported one. Some are still extant.

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I know some individuals who also did and their descendants are trumpers.

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Easy to find the corporations. Google "Corporations that supported the Third Reich." You will be surprised what comes up.

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Is this an AI response?

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"...a handful of super rich families controlling every aspect of life...', is the very definition that form of government known as "Fascism". Yup, pretty much like America today, and we have the GQP to thank for it. They will be swept away in the coming storm, with the total collapse of our climate, driven by their greed. Nature bats last.

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The fascists are just losers and thugs. They have been around with us since the cave days. We have been unable to raise them to be rational and intelligent. The rich and religions have figured out how to grow and use them for cheap labor and soldiers. As a horse is used to herd cattle.

Nobody can teach what they don't know. The fascists out reproduce the realists. Unless we raise all the babies from conception and agnostic communes there will be no future for anyone in my opinion. In a non-religious and non-racist kibbutz, we could end all mental physical and sexual child abuse and almost all stress and anxiety and teach rational thinking where no lies would be permitted. With soccer fields and tennis and basketball courts etc. And plenty of toys... We could raise the next generation to be sane and not racist or liars or haters. We can end racism, religious hatred, crime, and wars IF all nations did this. That's what safe trillions of dollars and end most all human suffering. It is always cheaper to do the right thing than it is the wrong thing.

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That would be a system and a society of socialism. It could bring about freedom, liberty, happiness and the fullness of each individual's potential. Sadly, the wealthy always dominate, and I fear that we are headed into another dark ages, as we see fascism and conservative right-wing movements winning even in Europe. So perhaps there will be another inquisition, and dark and medieval times coming until the end, which we know is going to be the climate catastrophe that ends human life. I hope I don't live that long.

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Talking of big lies. Trump claims that he is 6'2".. There is a photo of Kevin standing next to Trump in Mar a Lago, in the photo they are the same height, but Trump is standing with feet together and Kevin with feet apart, thus making him shorter. Kevin is 5'11", and if he had his feet together he would be taller than Trump. Trump is at least 5'11" if not shorter. He also cheats at Golf, and only wins Trophy's on the golf courses he owns. Commander in Cheat, by Rick Reilly https://www.amazon.com/Commander-Cheat-Golf-Explains-Trump/dp/0316528080

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The irony is that Biden was a high school football star.

Trump is a dud. Cheats at golf. Passes himself off as a bully. Shows up for professional wrestling.

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BEWARE. Thom publishes his articles on Raw Story (rawstory.com). Beware if you try to read his articles there that Raw Story has trojan malware that can infect your computer. I have been dealing with this for a week now, and as long as I am not using Raw Story, everything is fine, but if I try to read one of their articles, messages from my virus software pop up to inform me they blocked the trojan. It is not on my devices, and it is not in the browsers, it only occurs with Raw Story.

The name of the trojan is usersync.tiqcdn.net. Here is a blog post I found describing the same thing:

https://www.warriorforum.com/off-topic-forum/476461-rawstory-com-harbors-malware.html

Beware.

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We've got some other "big lies" as well. Your lie that what is happening in Gaza is not a genocide, and that the US president helping to engineer it, and who has supported apartheid his entire career, is some sort of hero. The other is the war in Ukraine and the lie that diplomacy and peace are impossible and that Ukraine has any chance of a military victory with our help. These lies have killed hundreds of thousands, and support a moral code of suppressing or ignoring reality in the interest of electoral politics and personal profit. And by the way, Rachel Maddow spreads a pretty big lie about Russia "stealing" the election from Hillary Clinton in 2016. So which are worse, the conservative "big lies" or the liberal ones?

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Apr 1·edited Apr 1

Who is this "your" in "your lie"? It's an important detail.

America's position has always been for a "two-state" solution.

Netanyahu and his right wing supporters in israel have always been opposed to the two-state solution. But it is Ya-hu's wall that failed. it was his Hamas policy that failed. It is his genocide. And he would love for Trump to be President. So would Putin. And Iran. And Hamas.

Maddow never said Russia "stole" the election but they did try to influence the outcome they got.

In answer to the final question: "conservative" lies are the worse ever. Traitors.

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Apr 1·edited Apr 1

Exactly Mac. The American Right and the Israeli Right are blood brothers. Trump ,Putin and Netanyahu are brothers from another mother.

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Boris you don't give a shit about Gaza. You fool no one. Gaza is just another tool to wield in support of Putin. Putin's game plan is to divide America, by having liberals turn against Biden.

Oct 7th was Putin's birthday present, a gift from the Ayatollah Khomeini.

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yes. Also for the American Republican Party.

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Troll

Russian tool, even.

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Excellent history reminder, Thom Hartmann, one that begs the question in my mind: Why are we having to say all this again to get America to even consider the possibility that fascism can happen - and, in my thinking, IS happening - again? MSM persists daily in referring to the present political process as a rise toward authoritarianism. Would that authoritarianism was all we were facing! We have dealt with authotitarianism throughout our history, for so long that it’s not seen as the threat the Founding Fathers knew might come at some point. Authoritarianism does not invoke anxiety, one of the reasons we prefer it. Fascism, on the other hand, is so frightening that looking away when it’s suggested is an almost reflex reaction. 1930-1940s Germans believed they could control a rising fascist dictator, so looked the other way; in return, they got the fascist dictator they they learned they could not control & a third World War that sacrificed many lives from many countries before that dictator could be put down. Presently, we face a fascist dictator again, but this time it’s here, in our own country. How will a public ever slay our fascist beast if we cannot say its name aloud. MSM fails us again, but we are complicit because we want their reassurance & MSM’s resistance to calling our fascist dictator by his true name mutes the terror we should all be facing!

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If Biden were to save a drowning child, and pictures showing him bare chested carrying the child to shore, Conservative talking heads would say, " Look at how near naked Biden is smiling. Could he be a pedophile?"

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If Biden were to save a drowning child, and pictures showing him bare chested carrying the child to shore, Conservative talking heads would say, " Look at how near naked Biden is smiling. Could he be a pedophile?"

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Please, do not let fear overcome the message that FDR offered to this country. Most people have not studied enough history to excerpt what would be useful for us to utilize now. Fear obliterates courage, inspiration, and wisdom. No matter what our outcomes, please, let us not cower before the windbag bullying that is Trump's modus operandi. Call out lies. Find ways to articulate the truth. Here is where comedians sometimes offer a perspective most people miss--we need to take in and act out of the overall course we want to live our lives from.

Interesting that Lincoln and FDR demonstrated courage way beyond what is ever expected of a leader.

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In 2017 the Traitor administration inherited the prosperity of the economy built by the herculean Obama-Biden efforts of 8 years running, often against vile R propaganda and twisted political moves by bare racist majorities. Despite that vile opposition, the Obama-Biden team repaired the widespread and deep financial damage of the Bush-Cheney administrations, including enacting and enabling multiple emergency financial boosts at the beginning. Sound familiar?

The Don T administration took that health and prosperity and gave the rich tax breaks, which goosed the stock markets to unsupported levels. Then Don T was handed an emergency, and proceeded to turn it into a greater disaster, week after week, month after month. And then he lost worse than he had in 2016. ( I hope to never hear that he 'won' 2016 ever again. Not likely, even on 'liberal' media. Words matter, people . . . and he is *not* President Traitor, likewise . . . he does not deserve the courtesy, the opposite . . . though 'former President Traitor' might work . . . no )

Don T inherited what prosperity he can claim for his vile term in office. We need to hear that from the Biden-Harris campaign, which *yet again* has cleaned up a vile Republican mess, with herculean efforts over 3 years, plus hopeful investments that should have been, and could still be, much, much larger.

best luck to US, b.rad

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