Now that Robert Kennedy Jr. says, “I’ve always been aligned with libertarians on most issues” let’s look at how libertarianism would work out in America, and where it came from in the first place...
Libertarianism came to America in the suitcase of Ayn Rand and Fred Koch.
Rand migrated from the USSR, supposedly anti communist, but she carried the baggage ofSoviet State and in particular the example of the ruthless, heartless, amoral Beria, head of the Soviet version of the GESTAPO,, NKVD/KGB.
Fred Koch, made his fortune building oil wells and refineries for Stalin in the 1930's and evidently liked the Soviet Style of management, as he and his sons created a movement (Libertarian) and in 1980 David Koch ran for president on a party that they created and funded, The Libertarian party. A principal article of Libertarianism is "if you don't work you don't eat" and abortion is murder, and gold should be the standard of value, where the dollar is based 100% on gold deposits. All of those are features of Russia under Stalin. Stalin's 1936 Soviet Constitution in Article 12, actually says work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat." This is not socialism, this is pure Marx a proto Libertarian, a fore runner of Rand and the Kochs.
Let's face it, Libertarians want all the benefits, but none of the responsibilities inherent in a democracy; they just don't want to pay taxes or have any restrictions, while Republicans also feel that they should get tax breaks, subsidies and all of the benefits of incorporation as well.
Good description translates into Libertarians are teenagers whose brains never fully developed. Want the bennies of being independent but not the responsibilities and like a teenager, stomps off, ready burn his house down if they don't get what they want. People raised by parents who read Benjamin Spock's books on child care, if anything he was knowingly subverting society, as common sense (part of a title of one of his books), informs that a pampered,helicoptered, undisclipined child, grows up self centered, greedy and selfish with no consideration or even aware that others besides him or her, also have the same needs,it is an Ayn Rand world of the Art of Selfishness., that half of the U.S. is living in .
The late H. L. Hunt, a right wing Texas oil billionaire who died in 1974, wrote a book in the 1950s titled “Alpaca” in which he advocated for a political system in which one dollar would equal one vote. His sons Bunker and Herbert helped start the Council on National Policy and went broke in the late 1970s trying to corner the silver market, but at least one of them became rich again due to investing in Bakken oil shale. We only had to wait 60 years before SCOTUS caught up with this dubious idea. I would rather not see us become a failed state, but we have to fight a hard battle to prevent it.
You and I must be of the same age, because I remember H.L. Hunt, a funder of Falwells's Moral Majority and of the John Birch Society. I remember that silver bust as well.
In the end he won, with SCOTUS definitely ruling that, in essence, $1 was one vote.
H.L. died when I was a kid, but I read a good biography about him, his three families, and his sense he was a law unto himself. I was in high school when Bunker and Herbert (two of his sons from his first wife Lyda) drove up silver markets by trying to corner them, then they went belly up. I was living in Texas at the time. It was Bunker and Herbert who helped fund the Moral Majority and the CNP as H.L. was dead by then. They were in the news quite a bit then. The children of his bigamous wife Frania Tye (who cut off H.L. once she learned he was married) sued for a share of his estate after H.L. died, and won.
Marx was a gold bug, he believed that gold was a standard of value, and every note printed by the realm, had to be backed with gold. The USSR adopted the 100% gold standard of .9851 grams of gold equals one ruble. Thus creating a perpetual shortage of bread. meat and consumer goods, like shoes and clothes, the only other consumer goods were smuggled in,with the consent of customs.
The shortage was justified by the Kremlin by blaming it on the existential needs, caused by the Cold War. The cold war served the Kremlin by keeping the starving population in line.
Marx also opposed the Corn Laws of England. These were tariffs, import tariff's on corn (grain, not maize).
He wrote scathing letters to the editors of southern papers, imploring them to free the slaves and hire them back at market waqes, because slave produced cotton was more expensive than
market produced cotton.
Marx had a partner, Frederick Engles, who had inherited a textile mill, which struggled to make a profit, because cotton imported from S.C. was too expensive, forcing him to buy cheaper and inferior Egyptian cotton.
Marx was not a patron of the lower class, the serf like, proletariat, but the middle class, whom he called the bourgeoisie . He was supported , financially, by the League of Just Men, who were in fact the financial elite of England. He believed as Alexander Hamilton, and our founding fathers believed that a country should be ruled by the elite, with the common people being a free floating labor pool,whose labor supported the ruling class, that was not possible with a healthy middle class, the presence of which is a threat to the ruling class (plutocrats), as the existence of a middle class, provides a means of upper mobility, and simultaneously downward mobility for the ruling class.
That among other reasons is the reason he was a proto libertarian, there is nothing about the real Marx, that David Koch would not like.
Just like critics of Mao's little red book, Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations,even the Communist manifesto, Hitler's Mein Kampf, very few Marxists, Hitlerites, Stalinists, Leninists, Maoists, few have ever read their books.
If you ever read Wealth of Nations and Das Kapital, have a supply of toothpicks to keep your eyes open, a person with ADHD can't get past page 1.
Even the world's industrialist and financiers have turned Adam Smith's "invisible hand" into something that he did not mean. Google it and you will see how business and finance, not to mention Econ classes in college and university use the Invisible Hand , to justify disaster capitalism and worker/consumer exploitation for both are the same, the worker is the consumer.
Libertarianism - an excellent philosophy to govern a community of 100 highly intelligent people. Until one of them figures how how easy it is to get over on the other 99.
The Libertarian “I Got Mine” Party provides a useful veneer of respectability, and they exploit it to flimflam our educationally challenged citizens with a daily dose of wrath and racism to keep them in the cult. Things would be greatly clarified if before our citizens chose a political philosophy to embrace (especially before they learned to become racists), we would first agree on what is the Constitutional purpose of our elected officials. Fortunately for us, the Preamble does a great job of describing what that is (specifically, promote our general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity plus four other objectives to help our general welfare get promoted and our blessings of liberty get secured). Libertarians are certainly in favor of having their own welfare promoted (at everyone else's expense) but I’m pretty sure they don’t give a shit about anyone but the “right” kind of people. Therefore, their philosophy is not only undemocratic, but unconstitutional.
There have been many such libertarian attempts, there was one in the late 1990's, to set up one in Montana.
And there is another attempt today, by the 10%. Plans have been rolled out for floating Libertarian cities, that only the truly rich can afford, out beyond the 12 mile limit.
Supposedly all conflicts are resolved by a court, as are crimes, however since it is Libertarian and not a Democracy there is no mention or thought how the court even comes into existence, the only possibility is the bully billionaire who created this personal kingdom and is the dictator. A Mad Max of the Rich. or better Water World.
I have traveled to a couple of "Presidential Republics" that probably depict your Phase II after the utopia of libertarianism exists in name only. What was interesting was the size and vibrancy of the "unofficial" economy because the official economy did not work.
Wasn't there another "utopian" experiment from 1918 to 1990?
There have been many a utopian experiment, among which we must consider Joseph Smith's, Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Amish, the Mennonites, Utica, NY, the list is endless and they are all cults.
Libertarians are simply people who wish to "impose" a reactionary society on the world. That is what trickle-down is all about, free-markets (LOL), laws that create the modern equivalent of dukes and lords, counts and barons by mere manipulation of tax laws. Per AOC; one does not make a billion - one takes a billion.
Libertarians view government success like a rival gang encroaching on their territory. It threatens their market share and lessens their chances to make profit.
The purpose of government is to keep the masses civilized enough that the merchants can prosper. Libertarianism and capitalism fail to do that. The trickle down does not work and it never has. When your nation has failed, the other nations will steal your stuff, if you have anything worth stealing. The motto of the United States is e pluribus unum. From many comes one. In God we trust, divides the nation. Who's God? What God? Which interpretation of the holy book is valid? Starving people don't have the time to ponder such intellectual pursuits when they don't even know how to read or write or do arithmetic, thanks to the right wing sadists. With free trade,the trickle down theory, capitalist healthcare, unfunded wars, bank bailouts, corporate welfare, interest on the national debt, union busting immigrant labor, bloated military budgets, offshore banking... The last 60 years or more or less, the libertarians and the capitalists have stolen over a hundred trillion dollars in my opinion! Now they claim the poor are at fault and they are lazy. The libertarians and the unlimited greed capitalists need young healthy slaves or wage earners, whatever you want to call them. The rest can get man-made covid, cancer, starve and die slow painful deaths. Then the tyrants wonder why nobody in their right mind wants to have babies.
Unfortunately, little of America's wealth that has avalanched up has ever trickled down again, nor will it; it will stay and multiply with the rich and corporate, and will be gone forever from the sight of those who earned it.
This "libertarianism" is more libertine than libertarian. Libertarians would be as or more concerned about freedoms of speech, expression, and religion as they are about economic freedom. But today's libertarianism begins and ends with the freedom of a billionaire to do whatever (s)he wants to do with their wealth. It is being economically libertine. It's your thing! Do what you want to do! (Nobody) can tell you who to sock it to!
Ah, the selfish, silly, magical-thinking of these Libertarians has resulted in a new generation that cannot pay for their education, afford health care, much less a home to raise a family. Then the elderly have their issues as well---some opting to move outside the US to be able to afford to live. The constant price gouging (especially on fuel), outrageous amounts spent on the military, and suppressed wages are a result of their free-market worship and devotion to only national security.
I believe this utter market nonsense and the resulting policies have been exposed for the killers they are. They have tried to eat-alive the future of the youth and in the process "woke" a whole new generation of voters. They are not going to do all the work and not get PAID.
This "libertarianism" is more libertine than libertarian. Libertarians would be as or more concerned about freedoms of speech, expression, and religion as they are about economic freedom. But today's libertarianism begins and ends with the freedom of a billionaire to do whatever (s)he wants to do with their wealth. It is being economically libertine. It's your thing! Do what you want to do! (Nobody) can tell you who to sock it to!
Libertarianism carries an increasing draw just as fascism does when both political parties are so corrupted that the one that is "better" has its legislation written by corporate lobbyists so the public policy that results is either woefully inadequate or fleeting. The warlords of the Democratic Party continue to prioritize propaganda and imperialism with the help of corporate media and "progressive" talk radio while workers and marginalized populations leave the party realizing that the photo ops of Biden begrudgingly walking with the UAW are solely for the purpose of garnering an endorsement for the upcoming election. There are only so many excuses anyone can be expected to accept before they look for something different, and while neither libertarianism nor Republicanism are viable answers Democratic Party policies like the ACA have failed to deliver on their promise.
Ah there you go again. Grabbing every opportunity to drag anti fascists through the mud, this time no both sides ism, you go straight for the jugular, the Democratic party, tell me comrade which Putin troll farm do you work from?
Warlords of the Democratic party, that sure is Putin speak. Gotcha
Corporate lobbyists do not underwrite Libertarianism, it is the personal project of David Koch, Charles is now dead. However Libertarian idea, have selectively been integrated into the Republican party. Except the Democrat ideals of diversity and equality, universal health care, and free access to all viewpoints and social issues, as manifested in the Republican drive to oulaw books and teaching on this subjects. Those are true libertarian ideas, but social libertarianism is called communist, while economic libertarian ideas that profit and benefit the 10% ruling class are embraced and perpetuated .
So you leap from Libertarianism in one sentence, to Democrats and Republicans, they brazenly use that as a launch pad to attack Democrats, not with the hard love of a liberal, but the antagonism of a Putinist.
You are correct in that the ACA doesn't deliver, I've been a critic of Obama, for caving into AHIP (American Health Insurance Providers), I am all in on single payer Health care, not government run health care, with Hospitals, clinics, doctors,nurses specialist as government employees.
Despite that you appear to be a troll,commenting on a basically progressive site, to sow division and thus promote the agenda of Putin, amongst persons who would otherwise vote Democratic, a big fail.
I don't think that Barry is politically illiterate, just the opposite he is well trained and practiced in diverting the conversation from the sins of Putin and the Republicans to focus on Democrats.
If the sides that we talk about are our citizens and the elected officials that serve to promote our general welfare (and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity) then bothsiderism can work. However, if the sides include the morbidly rich sociopaths who are destroying our democracy and their sub-contracted grifters in the public, private and academic sectors, beware because the likelihood of propaganda is very high with that bunch.
I agree with your sentiment, however the only faction in our society playing the both sides card, are Republicans and our corporate and corrupted media.
No personal insults towards you my friend, but please consider that Biden is pushing to send cluster munitions to Ukraine and his Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin signed off on a contract for a hundred million worth of javelin missiles for his former employer Raytheon. Last I checked Democrats have enthusiastically participated and often led the charge to murder over 3 million mostly Muslim civilians in the Middle East over the past 23 years. Whether the imperialist oligarchs are in Russia or here in the US they are of equivalent danger to the planet as we now have a judgment-addled corporatist president who is escalating conflicts with three nuclear powers while he contributes to xenophobia against Asians with his nonsensical anti-China rhetoric. Let's be clear that any platform that allows the dehumanization of others into "Putin trolls" and falls into the pit of McCarthyism is nationalist not progressive, and the denial of history and refutation of critical thinking is far more of a danger to democracy than Trump or Putin. As for warlords, the score for military interventions over the past 50 years is the US 251 to Russia's 8, troops stationed around the world US 170,000 to Russia's 15,000 (mostly in former Soviet regions). This is not promoting any particular agenda, it is a reality that Americans who share in the shame and guilt of mass murder overseas overseen by Democrats and Republicans alike are unable to cope. Since I have no interest in defending war criminals here or overseas, I do not have to insult my fellow human beings to cover up for performative politicians.
Dr. Kaufman, I might also add during the second half of my life the Chinese have raised 800 million people out of poverty while at the same time the U.S. has forced 140 million down into poverty. The U.S. has 800 military bases around the world; while no other country comes even close. The U.S. spends more on its military (half its federal taxes) than the next 5 countries combined. In its thousands of years of history China has invaded one country; the U.S., how many? Every advanced economy in the world has a national health plan which covers everyone; the U.S. no. I remember how as a candidate Obama promised a "public option" for health care. The Democrats controlled Congress during his first two years in the White House. So, what happened to the "public option?" The Democratic congressional leadership said "NO!" Instead the insurance monopolies got a huge gift; "Obama Care" with its guaranteed market. There's more. But this should suffice.
Just as I do not agree with the slogan of my parents: " I support my country, right or wrong." Today I do not support the Democrats, right or wrong. I support the Democrats because they are the lesser of two evils. But I hold my nose as I pull the lever in the voting booth.
"the capitalist will sell us the rope with which we will hang them with". Lenin was correct. The capitalist bought both parties and marginalized the left, but made sure the left got the blame for all their failed policies, even China is in on the ACT calling themselves communist when they are right-wing capitalists harvesting organs and a dictatorship. Democracy doesn't work very well when all the major news outlets start supporting autocracy. At this point, a vote for Joe is a vote for democracy and socialism not overt dictatorship. Pretty soon the Old guard will die of natural causes and will be replaced by the Young, we must try to preserve democracy as much as possible or go back to the dark ages.
I feel the same about the centrist Democrats, who are really pseudo-Republicans, as compared with progressive Democrats - who reflect more of what their party is about - and what I believe most Americans would like to see.
There you go again harping on Democrats. might I remind you that Republicans are responsible for the War on Terror. It all started when April Glasby, Geoge H W Bush's ambassador to Iraq, told Saddam that the US had no problem with Saddams designs for Iraq.
And Saddam was justifiably concerned as Kuwait had used slant drilling to cap into Iraq's oil fields. I am no defender of Saddam, he was a cruel and merciless dictator, but he was secular and that was the sin that Osama wanted to eradicate. And as such he was a threat to the Leadeship of the Kingdom and Iran, as well as the other Arab states.
But the King of S.A. permitted the US to build an air base, Prince Sultan. which Osama, a salafist and intense Whabbiyah, considered sacrilege on "sacred Arab" territory, consecrated by the birth and death of Muhammad.
The stone of Sunni Islamic terrorism broke inertia by the push of Daddy Bush.
Shia terrorism, like the bomb that killed those Marines in their barracks in Lebanon, was started by Iran, because of their doctrinal, religious hatred of the Jews.
Shia terrorism was limited to Israel, the Marines were bombed because of our support for Israel. Outside of the Levant, Iran sought out to kill homegrown critics, much like Modi of India put out a hit on an Indian in Canada who was a critic. Putin regularly assassinates his Russian Critics, or tries to.
But Salafist terrorism (Salafism: Salafism is the idea that the most authentic and true Islam is found in the lived example of the early, righteous generations of Muslims, known as the Salaf, who were closest in both time and proximity to the Prophet Muhammad), Salafists like DAESH which are essentially the same as Shia Islam and the Wahabbism of Saudi Arabia
Wahhabism advocates a purification of Islam, rejects Islamic theology and philosophy developed after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and calls for strict adherence to the letter of the Koran and hadith [the recorded sayings and practices of Muhammad.
And it wasn't Democrats who "lead the charge" to kill Muslims, in fact there was no charge and no agenda to kill Muslims. It was a Republican who led the charge , by invading Iraq under false pretenses, and Afghanistan the same.
If you feel you are being demonized into a Putin troll, then you have only yourself to blame,with your singular and persistent attack on Democrats, who are the only party that is fighting to save Democracy, as flawed as they are, yet they persist, especially in supporting Ukraine, which is obviously the point of your persistent criticism of Ukraines defenders.
Critical reasoning, from your persistent both sides ism, and your obvious advocacy for Putin, not so stupid to be direct, but indirectly by attacking Zelensky and Ukraine's support base (the current Democratic party), you reveal who you are, or you wouldn't know critical reasoning if you stepped on it.
And trying to compare me to McCarthy is the same shit villains always do, change the subject, by making someone or something else, the subject. That and projection. Another big fail on your part.
Let me give you a clue, I can't be bullied, or made fearful either in person or on the internet, as many a loser has discovered.
You see I don't care what your opinion of me happens to be. I am more concerned with my opinion of self, and my self respect and dignity. Yours doesn't matter, not one bit.
The rest of your comment is deflection, in praise and defense of Russia. In other words your Russia is better than my America.
America has its flaws, for sure, but Russia is an archaeological social and political artifice of Ivan the Terrible's Russia., a murderous, bigoted, racist, fascist dictatorship.
Racist because Putin, like Stalin uses Muslims and Siberians (mongol peoples) as bullet absorbers and camouflage, And like Stalin, sets kill teams, to shoot down anyone who flees or refuses to fight, without a trial.
Listen Missie, I am 84, and a history nut, I have lived more history than you will ever have. See comment at the end of this comment
As regards your assessment of Biden, it is pure MAGA speak, so get out of here, go home and stop spreading lies.
American hegemony is a consequence of foreign threats, and coercion, also the power of robber barons, industry cabals, media monopolies and politicians on the take.
But it arrived gradually, out of fear. The War of 1812 taught America, that this, then agrarian, country was not safe from attack by foreign powers, so it went on a campaign of acquisition, actually it started with Thomas Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase, because Spain had claimed the territories claimed by the French. The governor of the territory was Spanish which was essentially disempowered at the time, trying to hold off the French claim. so he offered Americans free land, to short stop the French, and one of his firsts takers was Daniel Boone,who was run out of Boonesville, as the American Colonists accused him of fraud,
It turns out that he passed himself off as a surveyor, however his surveys were inaccurate and there were overlapping claims. He sent his wife and children ahead on horses, and he packed up all of belongs, stowed them on a raft and rafted downriver to the Mississippi and landed at Cape Giraudoux, in what is now Missouri.
Shall I continue, shall I bore the readers with the history from the founding of the Virginia Company and the landing of the extreme right Brownists (the so called Puritans), through the revolution, the Mexican American war, War of 1812, the interference in Honduras, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, and most of South America in the behest of our home grown Plutocrats, up until today.
I am a history junkie, in fact I started and edited quite a few articles on wikipedia, and admittedly I hold contrarian opinions to the majority, but I have at my disposable reliable sources, which orthodoxy, especially political orthodoxy, consider dangerous and heretical.
I tried to edit articles on Nixon and Reagans, treason, even backed them up with reliable secondary sources., but they were reverted by an obvious Republican, a long established editor who had friends on the volunteer committees that decide whose edit is sanctioned and who will be banned or blocked. It is a cult over at wikipedia. And you soon discover that when an edit is reverted, and even if you explain why it was reverted, if you try to revert a revert then you get called on a revert war, and possibly be sanction with a block or a ban.
And the point is little missy, don't ever dare tell me to read history.Less you complain that my sarcasm is demeaning and sexist. check your own response where you TRY to belittle me, thus you earned this response.
Maybe you didn't realize it but when starting a conversation with a degrading or demeaning slur, like Read History, you or anyone else who has no other way of enjoining a conversation has stepped on a landmine
No, he's a politician, and less of a crook than almost any Republican. He's shortened the war in Afghanistan because with Trump's concessions to the Taliban, he could do no other, and he is helping Ukraine to keep the Russian Bear from swallowing all of Eastern Europe - if Vlad has his way.
Libertarianism is basically everyone is on their own; every man for himself. Until the New Deal, this was how America operated. Think Gilded Age robber barons. The label libertarian might be relatively recent, but the philosophy has been in play forever. The New World was "explored" by people looking for riches for themselves and their investors. Greed and selfishness NEVER go away. They raise their ugly heads at the first opportunity.
Cogent analysis of what has almost destroyed the middle class that grew up in the postwar era and made the American dream possible. The New Deal and the GI bill in a Roosevelt government gave a damn about the people because of Eleanor Roosevelt’s relentless prodding her husband to appoint people like Francis Perkins to positions where they could help regular working class Americans. We need a new New Deal but we do not have decent PUBLIC servants running for office. Thanks for the stark truth of how and why this is.
The prophets of libertarianism seek only the profits of white collar anarchy.
End result? Warlords and CEO's brutalizing and robbing the people unfettered.
Libertarianism came to America in the suitcase of Ayn Rand and Fred Koch.
Rand migrated from the USSR, supposedly anti communist, but she carried the baggage ofSoviet State and in particular the example of the ruthless, heartless, amoral Beria, head of the Soviet version of the GESTAPO,, NKVD/KGB.
Fred Koch, made his fortune building oil wells and refineries for Stalin in the 1930's and evidently liked the Soviet Style of management, as he and his sons created a movement (Libertarian) and in 1980 David Koch ran for president on a party that they created and funded, The Libertarian party. A principal article of Libertarianism is "if you don't work you don't eat" and abortion is murder, and gold should be the standard of value, where the dollar is based 100% on gold deposits. All of those are features of Russia under Stalin. Stalin's 1936 Soviet Constitution in Article 12, actually says work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat." This is not socialism, this is pure Marx a proto Libertarian, a fore runner of Rand and the Kochs.
Let's face it, Libertarians want all the benefits, but none of the responsibilities inherent in a democracy; they just don't want to pay taxes or have any restrictions, while Republicans also feel that they should get tax breaks, subsidies and all of the benefits of incorporation as well.
Good description translates into Libertarians are teenagers whose brains never fully developed. Want the bennies of being independent but not the responsibilities and like a teenager, stomps off, ready burn his house down if they don't get what they want. People raised by parents who read Benjamin Spock's books on child care, if anything he was knowingly subverting society, as common sense (part of a title of one of his books), informs that a pampered,helicoptered, undisclipined child, grows up self centered, greedy and selfish with no consideration or even aware that others besides him or her, also have the same needs,it is an Ayn Rand world of the Art of Selfishness., that half of the U.S. is living in .
..was thinking same: ❓what's the
diff between a koch & a tuberville
or gaetz...zip
my zip: 33138 miami
The late H. L. Hunt, a right wing Texas oil billionaire who died in 1974, wrote a book in the 1950s titled “Alpaca” in which he advocated for a political system in which one dollar would equal one vote. His sons Bunker and Herbert helped start the Council on National Policy and went broke in the late 1970s trying to corner the silver market, but at least one of them became rich again due to investing in Bakken oil shale. We only had to wait 60 years before SCOTUS caught up with this dubious idea. I would rather not see us become a failed state, but we have to fight a hard battle to prevent it.
You and I must be of the same age, because I remember H.L. Hunt, a funder of Falwells's Moral Majority and of the John Birch Society. I remember that silver bust as well.
In the end he won, with SCOTUS definitely ruling that, in essence, $1 was one vote.
H.L. died when I was a kid, but I read a good biography about him, his three families, and his sense he was a law unto himself. I was in high school when Bunker and Herbert (two of his sons from his first wife Lyda) drove up silver markets by trying to corner them, then they went belly up. I was living in Texas at the time. It was Bunker and Herbert who helped fund the Moral Majority and the CNP as H.L. was dead by then. They were in the news quite a bit then. The children of his bigamous wife Frania Tye (who cut off H.L. once she learned he was married) sued for a share of his estate after H.L. died, and won.
.....and she died on benefits because her 'libertarian' friends would not help her!
The irony is delicious. Pure Karma, and people say there is no such thing.
Not sure about Karl Marx being "a proto libertarian" (honestly). My ignorance aside, that's some nice writing throughout!
Marx was a gold bug, he believed that gold was a standard of value, and every note printed by the realm, had to be backed with gold. The USSR adopted the 100% gold standard of .9851 grams of gold equals one ruble. Thus creating a perpetual shortage of bread. meat and consumer goods, like shoes and clothes, the only other consumer goods were smuggled in,with the consent of customs.
The shortage was justified by the Kremlin by blaming it on the existential needs, caused by the Cold War. The cold war served the Kremlin by keeping the starving population in line.
Marx also opposed the Corn Laws of England. These were tariffs, import tariff's on corn (grain, not maize).
He wrote scathing letters to the editors of southern papers, imploring them to free the slaves and hire them back at market waqes, because slave produced cotton was more expensive than
market produced cotton.
Marx had a partner, Frederick Engles, who had inherited a textile mill, which struggled to make a profit, because cotton imported from S.C. was too expensive, forcing him to buy cheaper and inferior Egyptian cotton.
Marx was not a patron of the lower class, the serf like, proletariat, but the middle class, whom he called the bourgeoisie . He was supported , financially, by the League of Just Men, who were in fact the financial elite of England. He believed as Alexander Hamilton, and our founding fathers believed that a country should be ruled by the elite, with the common people being a free floating labor pool,whose labor supported the ruling class, that was not possible with a healthy middle class, the presence of which is a threat to the ruling class (plutocrats), as the existence of a middle class, provides a means of upper mobility, and simultaneously downward mobility for the ruling class.
That among other reasons is the reason he was a proto libertarian, there is nothing about the real Marx, that David Koch would not like.
Just like critics of Mao's little red book, Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations,even the Communist manifesto, Hitler's Mein Kampf, very few Marxists, Hitlerites, Stalinists, Leninists, Maoists, few have ever read their books.
If you ever read Wealth of Nations and Das Kapital, have a supply of toothpicks to keep your eyes open, a person with ADHD can't get past page 1.
Even the world's industrialist and financiers have turned Adam Smith's "invisible hand" into something that he did not mean. Google it and you will see how business and finance, not to mention Econ classes in college and university use the Invisible Hand , to justify disaster capitalism and worker/consumer exploitation for both are the same, the worker is the consumer.
Check this out: https://qz.com/emails/quartz-obsession/1849760772/adam-smith-s-invisible-hand-a-mishandled-metaphor
...key word: white
Libertarianism - an excellent philosophy to govern a community of 100 highly intelligent people. Until one of them figures how how easy it is to get over on the other 99.
Excellent.
The Libertarian “I Got Mine” Party provides a useful veneer of respectability, and they exploit it to flimflam our educationally challenged citizens with a daily dose of wrath and racism to keep them in the cult. Things would be greatly clarified if before our citizens chose a political philosophy to embrace (especially before they learned to become racists), we would first agree on what is the Constitutional purpose of our elected officials. Fortunately for us, the Preamble does a great job of describing what that is (specifically, promote our general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty for us and our posterity plus four other objectives to help our general welfare get promoted and our blessings of liberty get secured). Libertarians are certainly in favor of having their own welfare promoted (at everyone else's expense) but I’m pretty sure they don’t give a shit about anyone but the “right” kind of people. Therefore, their philosophy is not only undemocratic, but unconstitutional.
...thank you. i had forgotten the
preamble...guardian of liberty
One should not forget Grafton, NH. This was a libertarian experiment in 2004 to create a paradise without government. The problem was that Mother Nature, in that case bears, had not heard about this version of paradise. Vox article: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling. Book: https://amzn.to/3Pxtbcv.
Grafton was a small scale disaster to what may happen with the greater forces in climate change.
There have been many such libertarian attempts, there was one in the late 1990's, to set up one in Montana.
And there is another attempt today, by the 10%. Plans have been rolled out for floating Libertarian cities, that only the truly rich can afford, out beyond the 12 mile limit.
Supposedly all conflicts are resolved by a court, as are crimes, however since it is Libertarian and not a Democracy there is no mention or thought how the court even comes into existence, the only possibility is the bully billionaire who created this personal kingdom and is the dictator. A Mad Max of the Rich. or better Water World.
I have traveled to a couple of "Presidential Republics" that probably depict your Phase II after the utopia of libertarianism exists in name only. What was interesting was the size and vibrancy of the "unofficial" economy because the official economy did not work.
Wasn't there another "utopian" experiment from 1918 to 1990?
There have been many a utopian experiment, among which we must consider Joseph Smith's, Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Amish, the Mennonites, Utica, NY, the list is endless and they are all cults.
The non-rational who are detached from reality, don't have a chance of creating a Utopia for anyone other than the leader. Kind of like Trump humpers.
Libertarians are simply people who wish to "impose" a reactionary society on the world. That is what trickle-down is all about, free-markets (LOL), laws that create the modern equivalent of dukes and lords, counts and barons by mere manipulation of tax laws. Per AOC; one does not make a billion - one takes a billion.
Libertarians view government success like a rival gang encroaching on their territory. It threatens their market share and lessens their chances to make profit.
The purpose of government is to keep the masses civilized enough that the merchants can prosper. Libertarianism and capitalism fail to do that. The trickle down does not work and it never has. When your nation has failed, the other nations will steal your stuff, if you have anything worth stealing. The motto of the United States is e pluribus unum. From many comes one. In God we trust, divides the nation. Who's God? What God? Which interpretation of the holy book is valid? Starving people don't have the time to ponder such intellectual pursuits when they don't even know how to read or write or do arithmetic, thanks to the right wing sadists. With free trade,the trickle down theory, capitalist healthcare, unfunded wars, bank bailouts, corporate welfare, interest on the national debt, union busting immigrant labor, bloated military budgets, offshore banking... The last 60 years or more or less, the libertarians and the capitalists have stolen over a hundred trillion dollars in my opinion! Now they claim the poor are at fault and they are lazy. The libertarians and the unlimited greed capitalists need young healthy slaves or wage earners, whatever you want to call them. The rest can get man-made covid, cancer, starve and die slow painful deaths. Then the tyrants wonder why nobody in their right mind wants to have babies.
Trickle down is actually the wealthy using us as a public urinal.
Unfortunately, little of America's wealth that has avalanched up has ever trickled down again, nor will it; it will stay and multiply with the rich and corporate, and will be gone forever from the sight of those who earned it.
I’m concerned this is the case.
Nations that trust in their Constitution (as pre-Trump) are much better off than nations that trust only in their god(s.)
Hammurabi said the purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful.
It's easy to rant BUT how do you stop it?
Haiti is a Libertarian utopia. Libertarian is just a synonym for Anarchist.
This "libertarianism" is more libertine than libertarian. Libertarians would be as or more concerned about freedoms of speech, expression, and religion as they are about economic freedom. But today's libertarianism begins and ends with the freedom of a billionaire to do whatever (s)he wants to do with their wealth. It is being economically libertine. It's your thing! Do what you want to do! (Nobody) can tell you who to sock it to!
Billionaires for jingoism and citizens united. Billionaires love SCOTUS and Trump.
Ah, the selfish, silly, magical-thinking of these Libertarians has resulted in a new generation that cannot pay for their education, afford health care, much less a home to raise a family. Then the elderly have their issues as well---some opting to move outside the US to be able to afford to live. The constant price gouging (especially on fuel), outrageous amounts spent on the military, and suppressed wages are a result of their free-market worship and devotion to only national security.
I believe this utter market nonsense and the resulting policies have been exposed for the killers they are. They have tried to eat-alive the future of the youth and in the process "woke" a whole new generation of voters. They are not going to do all the work and not get PAID.
This "libertarianism" is more libertine than libertarian. Libertarians would be as or more concerned about freedoms of speech, expression, and religion as they are about economic freedom. But today's libertarianism begins and ends with the freedom of a billionaire to do whatever (s)he wants to do with their wealth. It is being economically libertine. It's your thing! Do what you want to do! (Nobody) can tell you who to sock it to!
Libertarianism carries an increasing draw just as fascism does when both political parties are so corrupted that the one that is "better" has its legislation written by corporate lobbyists so the public policy that results is either woefully inadequate or fleeting. The warlords of the Democratic Party continue to prioritize propaganda and imperialism with the help of corporate media and "progressive" talk radio while workers and marginalized populations leave the party realizing that the photo ops of Biden begrudgingly walking with the UAW are solely for the purpose of garnering an endorsement for the upcoming election. There are only so many excuses anyone can be expected to accept before they look for something different, and while neither libertarianism nor Republicanism are viable answers Democratic Party policies like the ACA have failed to deliver on their promise.
Ah there you go again. Grabbing every opportunity to drag anti fascists through the mud, this time no both sides ism, you go straight for the jugular, the Democratic party, tell me comrade which Putin troll farm do you work from?
Warlords of the Democratic party, that sure is Putin speak. Gotcha
Corporate lobbyists do not underwrite Libertarianism, it is the personal project of David Koch, Charles is now dead. However Libertarian idea, have selectively been integrated into the Republican party. Except the Democrat ideals of diversity and equality, universal health care, and free access to all viewpoints and social issues, as manifested in the Republican drive to oulaw books and teaching on this subjects. Those are true libertarian ideas, but social libertarianism is called communist, while economic libertarian ideas that profit and benefit the 10% ruling class are embraced and perpetuated .
So you leap from Libertarianism in one sentence, to Democrats and Republicans, they brazenly use that as a launch pad to attack Democrats, not with the hard love of a liberal, but the antagonism of a Putinist.
You are correct in that the ACA doesn't deliver, I've been a critic of Obama, for caving into AHIP (American Health Insurance Providers), I am all in on single payer Health care, not government run health care, with Hospitals, clinics, doctors,nurses specialist as government employees.
Despite that you appear to be a troll,commenting on a basically progressive site, to sow division and thus promote the agenda of Putin, amongst persons who would otherwise vote Democratic, a big fail.
Bothsiderism is proof of political illiteracy and general ignorance. Which Barry demonstrates All. The. Time.
I don't think that Barry is politically illiterate, just the opposite he is well trained and practiced in diverting the conversation from the sins of Putin and the Republicans to focus on Democrats.
I don't take even his screen name at face value.
If the sides that we talk about are our citizens and the elected officials that serve to promote our general welfare (and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity) then bothsiderism can work. However, if the sides include the morbidly rich sociopaths who are destroying our democracy and their sub-contracted grifters in the public, private and academic sectors, beware because the likelihood of propaganda is very high with that bunch.
I agree with your sentiment, however the only faction in our society playing the both sides card, are Republicans and our corporate and corrupted media.
NO. IF you read comments on here the Dems are as bad!
Agree.
No personal insults towards you my friend, but please consider that Biden is pushing to send cluster munitions to Ukraine and his Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin signed off on a contract for a hundred million worth of javelin missiles for his former employer Raytheon. Last I checked Democrats have enthusiastically participated and often led the charge to murder over 3 million mostly Muslim civilians in the Middle East over the past 23 years. Whether the imperialist oligarchs are in Russia or here in the US they are of equivalent danger to the planet as we now have a judgment-addled corporatist president who is escalating conflicts with three nuclear powers while he contributes to xenophobia against Asians with his nonsensical anti-China rhetoric. Let's be clear that any platform that allows the dehumanization of others into "Putin trolls" and falls into the pit of McCarthyism is nationalist not progressive, and the denial of history and refutation of critical thinking is far more of a danger to democracy than Trump or Putin. As for warlords, the score for military interventions over the past 50 years is the US 251 to Russia's 8, troops stationed around the world US 170,000 to Russia's 15,000 (mostly in former Soviet regions). This is not promoting any particular agenda, it is a reality that Americans who share in the shame and guilt of mass murder overseas overseen by Democrats and Republicans alike are unable to cope. Since I have no interest in defending war criminals here or overseas, I do not have to insult my fellow human beings to cover up for performative politicians.
Dr. Kaufman, I might also add during the second half of my life the Chinese have raised 800 million people out of poverty while at the same time the U.S. has forced 140 million down into poverty. The U.S. has 800 military bases around the world; while no other country comes even close. The U.S. spends more on its military (half its federal taxes) than the next 5 countries combined. In its thousands of years of history China has invaded one country; the U.S., how many? Every advanced economy in the world has a national health plan which covers everyone; the U.S. no. I remember how as a candidate Obama promised a "public option" for health care. The Democrats controlled Congress during his first two years in the White House. So, what happened to the "public option?" The Democratic congressional leadership said "NO!" Instead the insurance monopolies got a huge gift; "Obama Care" with its guaranteed market. There's more. But this should suffice.
Just as I do not agree with the slogan of my parents: " I support my country, right or wrong." Today I do not support the Democrats, right or wrong. I support the Democrats because they are the lesser of two evils. But I hold my nose as I pull the lever in the voting booth.
"the capitalist will sell us the rope with which we will hang them with". Lenin was correct. The capitalist bought both parties and marginalized the left, but made sure the left got the blame for all their failed policies, even China is in on the ACT calling themselves communist when they are right-wing capitalists harvesting organs and a dictatorship. Democracy doesn't work very well when all the major news outlets start supporting autocracy. At this point, a vote for Joe is a vote for democracy and socialism not overt dictatorship. Pretty soon the Old guard will die of natural causes and will be replaced by the Young, we must try to preserve democracy as much as possible or go back to the dark ages.
I feel the same about the centrist Democrats, who are really pseudo-Republicans, as compared with progressive Democrats - who reflect more of what their party is about - and what I believe most Americans would like to see.
Yes I agree to a certain extent but the leftist dems are selling themselves to the devil.
Even AOC.
Do not vote for them! The war in Ukraine will go on and on and on....
There you go again harping on Democrats. might I remind you that Republicans are responsible for the War on Terror. It all started when April Glasby, Geoge H W Bush's ambassador to Iraq, told Saddam that the US had no problem with Saddams designs for Iraq.
And Saddam was justifiably concerned as Kuwait had used slant drilling to cap into Iraq's oil fields. I am no defender of Saddam, he was a cruel and merciless dictator, but he was secular and that was the sin that Osama wanted to eradicate. And as such he was a threat to the Leadeship of the Kingdom and Iran, as well as the other Arab states.
But the King of S.A. permitted the US to build an air base, Prince Sultan. which Osama, a salafist and intense Whabbiyah, considered sacrilege on "sacred Arab" territory, consecrated by the birth and death of Muhammad.
The stone of Sunni Islamic terrorism broke inertia by the push of Daddy Bush.
Shia terrorism, like the bomb that killed those Marines in their barracks in Lebanon, was started by Iran, because of their doctrinal, religious hatred of the Jews.
Shia terrorism was limited to Israel, the Marines were bombed because of our support for Israel. Outside of the Levant, Iran sought out to kill homegrown critics, much like Modi of India put out a hit on an Indian in Canada who was a critic. Putin regularly assassinates his Russian Critics, or tries to.
But Salafist terrorism (Salafism: Salafism is the idea that the most authentic and true Islam is found in the lived example of the early, righteous generations of Muslims, known as the Salaf, who were closest in both time and proximity to the Prophet Muhammad), Salafists like DAESH which are essentially the same as Shia Islam and the Wahabbism of Saudi Arabia
Wahhabism advocates a purification of Islam, rejects Islamic theology and philosophy developed after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and calls for strict adherence to the letter of the Koran and hadith [the recorded sayings and practices of Muhammad.
And it wasn't Democrats who "lead the charge" to kill Muslims, in fact there was no charge and no agenda to kill Muslims. It was a Republican who led the charge , by invading Iraq under false pretenses, and Afghanistan the same.
If you feel you are being demonized into a Putin troll, then you have only yourself to blame,with your singular and persistent attack on Democrats, who are the only party that is fighting to save Democracy, as flawed as they are, yet they persist, especially in supporting Ukraine, which is obviously the point of your persistent criticism of Ukraines defenders.
Critical reasoning, from your persistent both sides ism, and your obvious advocacy for Putin, not so stupid to be direct, but indirectly by attacking Zelensky and Ukraine's support base (the current Democratic party), you reveal who you are, or you wouldn't know critical reasoning if you stepped on it.
And trying to compare me to McCarthy is the same shit villains always do, change the subject, by making someone or something else, the subject. That and projection. Another big fail on your part.
Let me give you a clue, I can't be bullied, or made fearful either in person or on the internet, as many a loser has discovered.
You see I don't care what your opinion of me happens to be. I am more concerned with my opinion of self, and my self respect and dignity. Yours doesn't matter, not one bit.
The rest of your comment is deflection, in praise and defense of Russia. In other words your Russia is better than my America.
America has its flaws, for sure, but Russia is an archaeological social and political artifice of Ivan the Terrible's Russia., a murderous, bigoted, racist, fascist dictatorship.
Racist because Putin, like Stalin uses Muslims and Siberians (mongol peoples) as bullet absorbers and camouflage, And like Stalin, sets kill teams, to shoot down anyone who flees or refuses to fight, without a trial.
JUST wait!
I wish I could have said this.
Please read History. All is nothing to do with American hegemony and ignorance?
Biden is a crook...forever wars.
How come the DNC decides who runs for President. In a democracy the people are supposed to decide?
Listen Missie, I am 84, and a history nut, I have lived more history than you will ever have. See comment at the end of this comment
As regards your assessment of Biden, it is pure MAGA speak, so get out of here, go home and stop spreading lies.
American hegemony is a consequence of foreign threats, and coercion, also the power of robber barons, industry cabals, media monopolies and politicians on the take.
But it arrived gradually, out of fear. The War of 1812 taught America, that this, then agrarian, country was not safe from attack by foreign powers, so it went on a campaign of acquisition, actually it started with Thomas Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase, because Spain had claimed the territories claimed by the French. The governor of the territory was Spanish which was essentially disempowered at the time, trying to hold off the French claim. so he offered Americans free land, to short stop the French, and one of his firsts takers was Daniel Boone,who was run out of Boonesville, as the American Colonists accused him of fraud,
It turns out that he passed himself off as a surveyor, however his surveys were inaccurate and there were overlapping claims. He sent his wife and children ahead on horses, and he packed up all of belongs, stowed them on a raft and rafted downriver to the Mississippi and landed at Cape Giraudoux, in what is now Missouri.
Shall I continue, shall I bore the readers with the history from the founding of the Virginia Company and the landing of the extreme right Brownists (the so called Puritans), through the revolution, the Mexican American war, War of 1812, the interference in Honduras, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, and most of South America in the behest of our home grown Plutocrats, up until today.
I am a history junkie, in fact I started and edited quite a few articles on wikipedia, and admittedly I hold contrarian opinions to the majority, but I have at my disposable reliable sources, which orthodoxy, especially political orthodoxy, consider dangerous and heretical.
I tried to edit articles on Nixon and Reagans, treason, even backed them up with reliable secondary sources., but they were reverted by an obvious Republican, a long established editor who had friends on the volunteer committees that decide whose edit is sanctioned and who will be banned or blocked. It is a cult over at wikipedia. And you soon discover that when an edit is reverted, and even if you explain why it was reverted, if you try to revert a revert then you get called on a revert war, and possibly be sanction with a block or a ban.
And the point is little missy, don't ever dare tell me to read history.Less you complain that my sarcasm is demeaning and sexist. check your own response where you TRY to belittle me, thus you earned this response.
Maybe you didn't realize it but when starting a conversation with a degrading or demeaning slur, like Read History, you or anyone else who has no other way of enjoining a conversation has stepped on a landmine
No, he's a politician, and less of a crook than almost any Republican. He's shortened the war in Afghanistan because with Trump's concessions to the Taliban, he could do no other, and he is helping Ukraine to keep the Russian Bear from swallowing all of Eastern Europe - if Vlad has his way.
You need to read other news!
IS this Ayn Rand speaking from the grave?
Libertarianism is basically everyone is on their own; every man for himself. Until the New Deal, this was how America operated. Think Gilded Age robber barons. The label libertarian might be relatively recent, but the philosophy has been in play forever. The New World was "explored" by people looking for riches for themselves and their investors. Greed and selfishness NEVER go away. They raise their ugly heads at the first opportunity.
Cogent analysis of what has almost destroyed the middle class that grew up in the postwar era and made the American dream possible. The New Deal and the GI bill in a Roosevelt government gave a damn about the people because of Eleanor Roosevelt’s relentless prodding her husband to appoint people like Francis Perkins to positions where they could help regular working class Americans. We need a new New Deal but we do not have decent PUBLIC servants running for office. Thanks for the stark truth of how and why this is.
There was no "American Dream." You were suckered.
You worked/you spent the money on Chinese toys.
YOU did not care about politics/under half the population voted.WHY?
Because you were the greatest Country on earth and you did not care how many were killed in your name!
BUT always you WERE American PATRIOTS!