Mr Dobbertin. I almost agree with you, and I do agree in pinciple., bit fee; a need to flesh out two things.
First, reading history. Most of the history that is available is written by people who have been inculcated on the semi official version. My knowledge of history has come about serendipitously, from bits and piece extracted from li…
Mr Dobbertin. I almost agree with you, and I do agree in pinciple., bit fee; a need to flesh out two things.
First, reading history. Most of the history that is available is written by people who have been inculcated on the semi official version. My knowledge of history has come about serendipitously, from bits and piece extracted from literature in the genealogical section of my personal library, and books like those of Howard Zinn. For instance there is
in Books like those one has to extract what appears to be extraneous facts, retain them and put them together.
As regards reparations. What I am arguing for is not money, because it will soon be wasted, that is what people do, especially people who are not accustomed to large sums falling in their lap. And besides, how does one define an American Descendant of Slaves.
And his surname is that of an Edward Mozingo, one of the 20 Africans who were sold as indentured servants on the Jamestown Quay in 1619 (Slavery did not come to Virginia until 1655, when a judge ruled that an indentured servant (John Casor) was the personal property of Anthony Johnson, him self black and a former indentured servant, and really legalized by the House of Burgess in 1661, which also legislated that the status of the child was determined by the status of the mother, and made illegal miscegenation.
Anyway, it turns out that Joe toured the country interviewing Mozingo's and found some who were proud members of the KKK, and there is this Judge in Alabama named Tony Mozingo. There is also a Mozingo YDNA surname project at familytreedna.com but the results are not published, unlike other DNA surnamed projects, as a lot of Mozingo's don't want others to know they are of African descent, but shower them with money, and I guarantee they will come out of the woodwork
There is another YDNA Surname Project, the Bass project, and it does publish it's YDNA results, and a good number of them are Haplogroup A, which is African, and a good portion of those are white, and I assume that a good portion if not most are white southerners and racists. One such posted on now defunct GenWeb, that he could't understand why his YDNA was African, Khoisan.
In the Farrar project there is an ADOS named Farrar, who was the 1st Deputy US Marshall in the state of Florida (now deceased) and a woman who used her fathers YDNA, but her fathers DNA is African, haplogroup E-M2, alas she has concocted a fantasy story that her 3rd or 4th great grandfather was the son of a love affair between a Samuel G Farrar and a slave named Fanny. Alas the Census shows that a there were two Samuel Farrars, living just miles from each other in 1870 and 1880, one was black and the other white., but she has her story and is invested in it.
So would these whites, including KKK members and white nationalists also get reparations? This is something that the champions of reparations don't address and completely ignore.
When I think of reparations, I think of the institutional and systemic racism, not just slavery, but so called reconstruction, the Tulsa Massacre, Jim Crow, red lining and the shit going on today.
Money thrown at it can't fix the problem, that this history of racism has caused, but we can invest in education, health care, nutrition for kids, not adults, housing and jobs. That's the reparations I am talking about.
Education is a big one, so is health care. Throughout the US Education is primarily funded by property taxes, and inner city property taxes are low, because we are taxed on value of the property, as a consequence too many schools, not just inner city, are underfunded and thus the kids are barely educated, in some cases they have problems reading and writing. Underfunded schools, means under educated teachers, crap teachers who don't belong in the job, lack of text books (not to mention banned books), no school supplies, no maintenance on schools
There is no solution to racism, there is racism even between African ethnicities (Rwanda, Hutsi's and Tutsi's, who can identify each other by stature and nose.
African slavery, who sold people to Portuguese and Spanish, chose tbeir victims on the basis of race/ethnicity. Tribal warfare, anywhere, is at root a clash of ethnic identities and racism.
Islam claims to be non racist, but tell that to the Africans, Asians who were and are (for all practical) purposes enslaved by Arabs,even today, thanks to modern laws and practices they go about enslavement with a little more finesse,like recruiting victims form lesser developed countries,especially in Asia, and confiscating their passports when they clear customs.
Since you can't solve racism, it is not a problem, because problems have solutions, so it is a difficultry and difficulties don't have solutions, try to solve a difficulty and you only create problems.
The deleterious effects of difficulties can be ameliorated and one way , in the case of sysemic and institutional racism, is removed the barriers that were erected to maintain the status quo, and you can do that by affirmative action, but also by improving the education, health care and employment of the people so longdisenfranchised, and targeting those areas, excluding those who have already risen up, and whites with a smidgeon of blood of a slaveis the place to start.
mr. Farrar I read Zinn's People's History back in the days when I was teaching. I then gave it to one of my kids to read. I bought a copy of Albion's Seed some years ago with the well meaning intention of reading it. But like many other projects it got lost on my bookshelves. I shall go looking for it. Thank you for the reminder.
I am old enough for my Grandfather to have told me about the Tulsa massacre ( I think he was born in 1882). But because he was a flaming racist, member of the Masons; he had the racist version of it in his head. Apparently there was a smaller version of it in Chicago, where he owned a saloon at the time. When I was older and read some history about the Masons, it made me ill to think some members of my family were in that organization. It apparently sprang up in England as a working man's version of the London men's clubs established for the wealthy aristos.
Mr Dobbertin. I almost agree with you, and I do agree in pinciple., bit fee; a need to flesh out two things.
First, reading history. Most of the history that is available is written by people who have been inculcated on the semi official version. My knowledge of history has come about serendipitously, from bits and piece extracted from literature in the genealogical section of my personal library, and books like those of Howard Zinn. For instance there is
https://www.amazon.com/Intimate-American-Revolution-Pittsylvania-Virginia/dp/B01E1RQEW0, it is about Virginia as well as Pittsylvania County, and then there is Albion's Seed, Four British Folkways in America https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-cultural/dp/0195069056/ref=sr_1_1?crid=ZLSJF59WXFTR&keywords=albions+see&qid=1699109163&s=books&sprefix=albions+see%2Cstripbooks%2C246&sr=1-1
in Books like those one has to extract what appears to be extraneous facts, retain them and put them together.
As regards reparations. What I am arguing for is not money, because it will soon be wasted, that is what people do, especially people who are not accustomed to large sums falling in their lap. And besides, how does one define an American Descendant of Slaves.
Fiddler on Pantico Run was written by Joe Mozingo, a white man from California, who set out to find his roots. https://www.amazon.com/Fiddler-Pantico-Run-African-Descendants/dp/1451627483/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2LD7E7R9HP2XU&keywords=fiddler+on+pantico+run&qid=1699109374&s=books&sprefix=fiddler+on+pantico+run%2Cstripbooks%2C241&sr=1-1
And his surname is that of an Edward Mozingo, one of the 20 Africans who were sold as indentured servants on the Jamestown Quay in 1619 (Slavery did not come to Virginia until 1655, when a judge ruled that an indentured servant (John Casor) was the personal property of Anthony Johnson, him self black and a former indentured servant, and really legalized by the House of Burgess in 1661, which also legislated that the status of the child was determined by the status of the mother, and made illegal miscegenation.
Anyway, it turns out that Joe toured the country interviewing Mozingo's and found some who were proud members of the KKK, and there is this Judge in Alabama named Tony Mozingo. There is also a Mozingo YDNA surname project at familytreedna.com but the results are not published, unlike other DNA surnamed projects, as a lot of Mozingo's don't want others to know they are of African descent, but shower them with money, and I guarantee they will come out of the woodwork
There is another YDNA Surname Project, the Bass project, and it does publish it's YDNA results, and a good number of them are Haplogroup A, which is African, and a good portion of those are white, and I assume that a good portion if not most are white southerners and racists. One such posted on now defunct GenWeb, that he could't understand why his YDNA was African, Khoisan.
In the Farrar project there is an ADOS named Farrar, who was the 1st Deputy US Marshall in the state of Florida (now deceased) and a woman who used her fathers YDNA, but her fathers DNA is African, haplogroup E-M2, alas she has concocted a fantasy story that her 3rd or 4th great grandfather was the son of a love affair between a Samuel G Farrar and a slave named Fanny. Alas the Census shows that a there were two Samuel Farrars, living just miles from each other in 1870 and 1880, one was black and the other white., but she has her story and is invested in it.
So would these whites, including KKK members and white nationalists also get reparations? This is something that the champions of reparations don't address and completely ignore.
When I think of reparations, I think of the institutional and systemic racism, not just slavery, but so called reconstruction, the Tulsa Massacre, Jim Crow, red lining and the shit going on today.
Money thrown at it can't fix the problem, that this history of racism has caused, but we can invest in education, health care, nutrition for kids, not adults, housing and jobs. That's the reparations I am talking about.
Education is a big one, so is health care. Throughout the US Education is primarily funded by property taxes, and inner city property taxes are low, because we are taxed on value of the property, as a consequence too many schools, not just inner city, are underfunded and thus the kids are barely educated, in some cases they have problems reading and writing. Underfunded schools, means under educated teachers, crap teachers who don't belong in the job, lack of text books (not to mention banned books), no school supplies, no maintenance on schools
There is no solution to racism, there is racism even between African ethnicities (Rwanda, Hutsi's and Tutsi's, who can identify each other by stature and nose.
African slavery, who sold people to Portuguese and Spanish, chose tbeir victims on the basis of race/ethnicity. Tribal warfare, anywhere, is at root a clash of ethnic identities and racism.
Islam claims to be non racist, but tell that to the Africans, Asians who were and are (for all practical) purposes enslaved by Arabs,even today, thanks to modern laws and practices they go about enslavement with a little more finesse,like recruiting victims form lesser developed countries,especially in Asia, and confiscating their passports when they clear customs.
Since you can't solve racism, it is not a problem, because problems have solutions, so it is a difficultry and difficulties don't have solutions, try to solve a difficulty and you only create problems.
The deleterious effects of difficulties can be ameliorated and one way , in the case of sysemic and institutional racism, is removed the barriers that were erected to maintain the status quo, and you can do that by affirmative action, but also by improving the education, health care and employment of the people so longdisenfranchised, and targeting those areas, excluding those who have already risen up, and whites with a smidgeon of blood of a slaveis the place to start.
mr. Farrar I read Zinn's People's History back in the days when I was teaching. I then gave it to one of my kids to read. I bought a copy of Albion's Seed some years ago with the well meaning intention of reading it. But like many other projects it got lost on my bookshelves. I shall go looking for it. Thank you for the reminder.
I am old enough for my Grandfather to have told me about the Tulsa massacre ( I think he was born in 1882). But because he was a flaming racist, member of the Masons; he had the racist version of it in his head. Apparently there was a smaller version of it in Chicago, where he owned a saloon at the time. When I was older and read some history about the Masons, it made me ill to think some members of my family were in that organization. It apparently sprang up in England as a working man's version of the London men's clubs established for the wealthy aristos.