WOW — that is a needed history lesson and dose of clarity!!
I knew Reagan and his handlers {Heritage Soc types} constantly demonized government, but I didn’t not realize that Paine’s THE RIGHTS OF MAN was a direct refutation of a philosophy that said the peons need to be kept down for the GOOD of all — I figured it was just the venal priv…
WOW — that is a needed history lesson and dose of clarity!!
I knew Reagan and his handlers {Heritage Soc types} constantly demonized government, but I didn’t not realize that Paine’s THE RIGHTS OF MAN was a direct refutation of a philosophy that said the peons need to be kept down for the GOOD of all — I figured it was just the venal privilege of power that didn’t want to be challenged. How could I not have known that some jamokes were dressing that attitude up in “righteousness” and “the good”?
When I heard Biden say that line about realizing that “Government is US, the people!” I just nodded my head and kept listening. Because I thought it was common knowledge — or it should be! It is a line I have been harping on in commentary threads for a couple of years.I wrote it to President Biden in comments I often send to HIM on the White House web site {we can DO that, people — go to the White House web site and click on “contact” and direct your own message to the President!}.
How clever were these people who believe in the elitism of money — they framed protests against the horrors of Vietnam as a consequence of letting the hoi polloi earn too much money!! Rather than the people objecting to having been exploited and lied to and sent to their deaths. Sadly, Mr. Hartmann, there was actually NO noble intent in what Reagan did to destroy the middle class. It was not to preserve order and governability — the idea was “Keep ‘em poor and desperate, so they don’t dare resist their ‘betters.’ “
Disgusting.
Thanks SO much for the excellent lesson in the history of political philosophy and the American social and political experience.
"Keep ‘em poor and desperate, so they don’t dare resist their ‘betters.’ “
The folk that need this the most are watching Fox or worse..... confront them there. Can comment on their websites, attach Thom's articles. Let then know that Trump hates dogs. Stole from kids with cancer, etc.
Hit their websites, They are sure hitting progressive websites. New right wing trolls keep showing up every day, especially on Robert Reich's, because one can post on his substack without a subscription.
Pat Sez: "they framed protests against the horrors of Vietnam as a consequence of letting the hoi polloi earn too much money!! Rather than the people objecting to having been exploited and lied to and sent to their deaths. "
The Lewis Powell memo, is what got the ball rolling. Thom has written about it many times
I am not Pat. A couple of years ago I would engage, just to pull chains, on the comment section of the Hill, it's moderators were right wingers. they eventually shut down the comment section and move it to Facebook. I don't have a FB account.
Mediaite is the same, polluted with right wing morons, and yes they are morons, It is hard to believe that people can be so stupid.
I don't read them, because I know what they are going to say, it is the same five or six things over and over. There is absolutely nothing to learn from them, and if someone is bored, has time on their hands, they are a great place to troll, but be wary, you will probably get banned after one or two posts.
I don’t read Mediaite much. Read scads of things. Find NYT outrageously aggravating. And WAPO and Globe. I expect rightist claptrap from the editorial pages of the WSJ, but would at least like not to see so many weasel words and weighted comments in the NEWS sections of all the papers everywhere.
I try to at least know what the “arguments” are for the conservative way of thinking, but it’s not really conservative any more. It’s Right Cult Thinking.
But, hey, that is how I see it, and THEY say the same sort of thing about MY thinking. That I’m drinking the KoolAid on the LEFT?
I need to know what the points of contention are. I need to try to remember {or l learn} the history that feeds into people’s ideas about how the world works — the philosophies, world views, and values that underpin all these “opinions” floating around.
When I go deep into their ideas, the Right to me is just so f-ing illogical. It’s more desire and wishful thinking about the world they want to shape than it is related to real things.
And they’re principles are not founded on the real facts of history, when we check that out, too. {Much of it I lived, so I can remember stuff and see how they misrepresent it. JD Vance is one of the worst on that score — up there with Ayn Rand in the dumbass “pseudo-philosopher” category. Only, even she was smarter than he is.}
It’s just getting so hard have a discussion {we could use the words “argument”, or “debate,” but I am talking about rational conversation to organize and refine and understand thoughts …} with people currently. First, they form their opinions based on fallacies; second, they insist WE are fallacious; third, they don’t want to find common ground, because they insist they are in the God-Given-Right! {pun intended}.
I subscribe to the Bulwark. Never Trumpers founded by Charlie Sykes,now an "analyst" on MSNBC.
Not at all rabid right, them and the Lincoln Project, but they are Reagan conservatives. I tried to ask Charlie what brief do they have against progressives?
Is it diversity? Is it equity? Is it inclusion? I can't get an answer.
Scratch them and it is economic libertarianism, so called free market, no regulation. small government. And where we would be if there were such.
No hiways, no internet, no defense, no public utiliies, no parks, a perpetual wild west or a Somalia.
But I am glad to have them as allies,however they are now becoming Democrats (it is a movement actually)
On the subject of kool aid, there is in fact, a problem, that is non ideological, or shall I say transideologic.
To be thought of or think of my self as left or progressive one is expected to drink the Strawberry kool aid,my analogy is to eat the whole pie (or pizza) I prefer to eat slices, and even a slice from the rights PIZZA, but with my own special topping.
The right wing is the same, they all drink the Orange kiool aid, all of them without a second thought or hesitation. And there are many of the left that do the same with strawberry kool aid.
With hidebound ideologues they expect ideological purity.I am not ideologically pure, and from the comments I've seen in my time on Reich's substack I am not alone.
Back to the Trump humpers accusing you of drinking the left's kool aid, they are projecting as you well know.
A person who as a need to believe (in anything), thinks everyone else has the same need, the notion that one could hold opinions (arrived at not acquired) is beyond their ken.
WOW — that is a needed history lesson and dose of clarity!!
I knew Reagan and his handlers {Heritage Soc types} constantly demonized government, but I didn’t not realize that Paine’s THE RIGHTS OF MAN was a direct refutation of a philosophy that said the peons need to be kept down for the GOOD of all — I figured it was just the venal privilege of power that didn’t want to be challenged. How could I not have known that some jamokes were dressing that attitude up in “righteousness” and “the good”?
When I heard Biden say that line about realizing that “Government is US, the people!” I just nodded my head and kept listening. Because I thought it was common knowledge — or it should be! It is a line I have been harping on in commentary threads for a couple of years.I wrote it to President Biden in comments I often send to HIM on the White House web site {we can DO that, people — go to the White House web site and click on “contact” and direct your own message to the President!}.
How clever were these people who believe in the elitism of money — they framed protests against the horrors of Vietnam as a consequence of letting the hoi polloi earn too much money!! Rather than the people objecting to having been exploited and lied to and sent to their deaths. Sadly, Mr. Hartmann, there was actually NO noble intent in what Reagan did to destroy the middle class. It was not to preserve order and governability — the idea was “Keep ‘em poor and desperate, so they don’t dare resist their ‘betters.’ “
Disgusting.
Thanks SO much for the excellent lesson in the history of political philosophy and the American social and political experience.
SO enlightening!!! SO important!
"Keep ‘em poor and desperate, so they don’t dare resist their ‘betters.’ “
The folk that need this the most are watching Fox or worse..... confront them there. Can comment on their websites, attach Thom's articles. Let then know that Trump hates dogs. Stole from kids with cancer, etc.
Hit their websites, They are sure hitting progressive websites. New right wing trolls keep showing up every day, especially on Robert Reich's, because one can post on his substack without a subscription.
Pat Sez: "they framed protests against the horrors of Vietnam as a consequence of letting the hoi polloi earn too much money!! Rather than the people objecting to having been exploited and lied to and sent to their deaths. "
The Lewis Powell memo, is what got the ball rolling. Thom has written about it many times
https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/
And months after he wrote that memo to the US Chamber of Commerce, Nixon appointed him to SCOTUS.
This memo was the opening shot on the assault on the middle class.
Yes.The history WE are aware of … So, I have to visit their web sites and conversations/
I read info from the right, but I’m not sure I’m up to writing on their sites …
I am not Pat. A couple of years ago I would engage, just to pull chains, on the comment section of the Hill, it's moderators were right wingers. they eventually shut down the comment section and move it to Facebook. I don't have a FB account.
Mediaite is the same, polluted with right wing morons, and yes they are morons, It is hard to believe that people can be so stupid.
I don't read them, because I know what they are going to say, it is the same five or six things over and over. There is absolutely nothing to learn from them, and if someone is bored, has time on their hands, they are a great place to troll, but be wary, you will probably get banned after one or two posts.
I don’t read Mediaite much. Read scads of things. Find NYT outrageously aggravating. And WAPO and Globe. I expect rightist claptrap from the editorial pages of the WSJ, but would at least like not to see so many weasel words and weighted comments in the NEWS sections of all the papers everywhere.
I try to at least know what the “arguments” are for the conservative way of thinking, but it’s not really conservative any more. It’s Right Cult Thinking.
But, hey, that is how I see it, and THEY say the same sort of thing about MY thinking. That I’m drinking the KoolAid on the LEFT?
I need to know what the points of contention are. I need to try to remember {or l learn} the history that feeds into people’s ideas about how the world works — the philosophies, world views, and values that underpin all these “opinions” floating around.
When I go deep into their ideas, the Right to me is just so f-ing illogical. It’s more desire and wishful thinking about the world they want to shape than it is related to real things.
And they’re principles are not founded on the real facts of history, when we check that out, too. {Much of it I lived, so I can remember stuff and see how they misrepresent it. JD Vance is one of the worst on that score — up there with Ayn Rand in the dumbass “pseudo-philosopher” category. Only, even she was smarter than he is.}
It’s just getting so hard have a discussion {we could use the words “argument”, or “debate,” but I am talking about rational conversation to organize and refine and understand thoughts …} with people currently. First, they form their opinions based on fallacies; second, they insist WE are fallacious; third, they don’t want to find common ground, because they insist they are in the God-Given-Right! {pun intended}.
I’m exhausted.
I subscribe to the Bulwark. Never Trumpers founded by Charlie Sykes,now an "analyst" on MSNBC.
Not at all rabid right, them and the Lincoln Project, but they are Reagan conservatives. I tried to ask Charlie what brief do they have against progressives?
Is it diversity? Is it equity? Is it inclusion? I can't get an answer.
Scratch them and it is economic libertarianism, so called free market, no regulation. small government. And where we would be if there were such.
No hiways, no internet, no defense, no public utiliies, no parks, a perpetual wild west or a Somalia.
But I am glad to have them as allies,however they are now becoming Democrats (it is a movement actually)
On the subject of kool aid, there is in fact, a problem, that is non ideological, or shall I say transideologic.
To be thought of or think of my self as left or progressive one is expected to drink the Strawberry kool aid,my analogy is to eat the whole pie (or pizza) I prefer to eat slices, and even a slice from the rights PIZZA, but with my own special topping.
The right wing is the same, they all drink the Orange kiool aid, all of them without a second thought or hesitation. And there are many of the left that do the same with strawberry kool aid.
With hidebound ideologues they expect ideological purity.I am not ideologically pure, and from the comments I've seen in my time on Reich's substack I am not alone.
Back to the Trump humpers accusing you of drinking the left's kool aid, they are projecting as you well know.
A person who as a need to believe (in anything), thinks everyone else has the same need, the notion that one could hold opinions (arrived at not acquired) is beyond their ken.