Ms. Taylor, thank you for your thoughtful response. You appear to know a great deal about the activities of Freud in his early years as a student of Charcot. I thank you for informing me.
I have always viewed the concept of "repression" with a certain amount of doubt. I believe it is more likely that a horrible experience does not create …
Ms. Taylor, thank you for your thoughtful response. You appear to know a great deal about the activities of Freud in his early years as a student of Charcot. I thank you for informing me.
I have always viewed the concept of "repression" with a certain amount of doubt. I believe it is more likely that a horrible experience does not create a problem because it is repressed and then subsequently it re-appears in some altered form. I think the problem with a horrible experience is more likely to create pain because the person who experiences it cannot stop thinking about it. It sticks in their mind consciously;. They cannot stop reliving it over and over and this is a terribly painful, disabling experience. My friends and relatives who have been in terrifying combat in Vietnam , Korea, and WWII told me they would like to forget it; but they cannot. That is the problem for them: they cannot forget it.
On a related topic I wonder about the whole concept of "hysteria." Hyster is greek for womb. Scholars commonly turn to ancient languages as they search for names to give to the new concepts they are developing. Ancient Greek, Latin, and Hebrew are often chosen as the reservoir of terms to borrow from. When a surgeon removes a woman's womb that is said to be a "hysterectomy." A sensible term for womb- removal.
Irrational, nonsensical behavior was and still is claimed to be a typical response of females. Thus, people suffering from irrational thoughts and frightening feelings and allowing these to take control of their behavior are said to be "hysterical" according to Freud. A claim which is clearly born of a bias against females. This bias is a common cultural trait. We are culturally predisposed to label such behavior as female. I love that sequence in THE AFRICAN QUEEN when Humphrey Bogart's character "Mr. Allnut" drunkenly shouts at Katherine Hepburn's character "Rosie," calling her "a bible thumping, psalm singing old maid." But then he changes his view of her entirely after he shares the warmth of her wonderful lips with their first kiss and is overwhelmed by her courageous determination to attack the german warship.
I suspect a better place to look for an explanation for human behavior is in society itself, as all human behavior is social. I prefer to not look into human biology for explanations of inherently social phenomena.
Hi gerald, I totally agree that "all human behavior is social." The human context in which experience takes place affects the experiencer's reaction. Experiences that are emotionally traumatizing in childhood, when the child victim is dependent upon the parental perpetrator and has no escape, are happening under different circumstances than adult soldiers in warfare. Nature makes it possible for children who are trapped in assaultive or massively neglectful environments and must stay there for years before they're capable of taking care of themselves, to deny that what's happening to them is that bad, to consciously suppress feelings that would further infuriate the abusive parent upon whom the child is dependent, repress these experiences into deeper regions of unconsciousness, or completely dissociate from them, removing themselves from the situation as if it were happening to someone else.
The way that Freud and others subsequently learned about this is through careful listening to patients over the last 100 years and devising treatment relationships that were safe enough for repressed memories or dissociated experience to gradually emerge into conscious awareness. Often, painful memories emerge first in dreams, another somewhat unconscious realm of the mind, before the person feels safe enough to manage these memories with full consciousness. None of this remembering process is willful or consciously intended, but it happens as the person begins to feel safer with a therapist who demonstrates qualities of acceptance and compassion, unlike the traumatizing parents of the patient's childhood.
You are correct that there's another result of trauma that occurs in adults exposed to mortal danger, physical and/or emotional, and also cannot escape. There are forms of PTSD where the sufferer can't forget painful memories by which they are haunted. Abused children and soldiers in war are living under similar circumstances. But children are living in a traumatizing environment 24/7 with people upon whom they must depend for years. Abusive parents usually can't tolerate the child reminding them in any way of the abuse they are inflicting so there's one more requirement that author Alice Miller points out..."Thou Shalt Not Be Aware." Children are forced, by their fear of the parent's retribution, to tolerate the abuse but suppress, repress, or dissociate from the emotional effects of living with abusive parents. They dare not allow themselves to become fully aware of just how unbearable the situation is because they are dependent on the very people they fear the most.
A good book about these two, similar but different circumstances is, Trauma and Recovery, by Judith Herman.
Ms. Taylor, your comment "because they are dependent on the very people they fear the most." is an eye opener. Yes, that does make the child's situation different from the soldier's. The soldier can fight back while the child cannot, dares not. The soldier also has colleagues to whom he or she can turn for help. The child likely does not. I had not thought it through even though I, like many other children had an alcoholic German-American father and a somewhat negligent, emotionally distant mother.
I also had not thought about the potential of dreams as an opening in investigating trauma. This is not to say I have not wondered about the nature and significance of dreams in human existence. I have. I regret to say I did not here. The subject of dreams in this context probably seems obvious to you; as it seems you have experience in this subject which I lack. Thanks again for your response.
Ms. Taylor, thank you for your thoughtful response. You appear to know a great deal about the activities of Freud in his early years as a student of Charcot. I thank you for informing me.
I have always viewed the concept of "repression" with a certain amount of doubt. I believe it is more likely that a horrible experience does not create a problem because it is repressed and then subsequently it re-appears in some altered form. I think the problem with a horrible experience is more likely to create pain because the person who experiences it cannot stop thinking about it. It sticks in their mind consciously;. They cannot stop reliving it over and over and this is a terribly painful, disabling experience. My friends and relatives who have been in terrifying combat in Vietnam , Korea, and WWII told me they would like to forget it; but they cannot. That is the problem for them: they cannot forget it.
On a related topic I wonder about the whole concept of "hysteria." Hyster is greek for womb. Scholars commonly turn to ancient languages as they search for names to give to the new concepts they are developing. Ancient Greek, Latin, and Hebrew are often chosen as the reservoir of terms to borrow from. When a surgeon removes a woman's womb that is said to be a "hysterectomy." A sensible term for womb- removal.
Irrational, nonsensical behavior was and still is claimed to be a typical response of females. Thus, people suffering from irrational thoughts and frightening feelings and allowing these to take control of their behavior are said to be "hysterical" according to Freud. A claim which is clearly born of a bias against females. This bias is a common cultural trait. We are culturally predisposed to label such behavior as female. I love that sequence in THE AFRICAN QUEEN when Humphrey Bogart's character "Mr. Allnut" drunkenly shouts at Katherine Hepburn's character "Rosie," calling her "a bible thumping, psalm singing old maid." But then he changes his view of her entirely after he shares the warmth of her wonderful lips with their first kiss and is overwhelmed by her courageous determination to attack the german warship.
I suspect a better place to look for an explanation for human behavior is in society itself, as all human behavior is social. I prefer to not look into human biology for explanations of inherently social phenomena.
Hi gerald, I totally agree that "all human behavior is social." The human context in which experience takes place affects the experiencer's reaction. Experiences that are emotionally traumatizing in childhood, when the child victim is dependent upon the parental perpetrator and has no escape, are happening under different circumstances than adult soldiers in warfare. Nature makes it possible for children who are trapped in assaultive or massively neglectful environments and must stay there for years before they're capable of taking care of themselves, to deny that what's happening to them is that bad, to consciously suppress feelings that would further infuriate the abusive parent upon whom the child is dependent, repress these experiences into deeper regions of unconsciousness, or completely dissociate from them, removing themselves from the situation as if it were happening to someone else.
The way that Freud and others subsequently learned about this is through careful listening to patients over the last 100 years and devising treatment relationships that were safe enough for repressed memories or dissociated experience to gradually emerge into conscious awareness. Often, painful memories emerge first in dreams, another somewhat unconscious realm of the mind, before the person feels safe enough to manage these memories with full consciousness. None of this remembering process is willful or consciously intended, but it happens as the person begins to feel safer with a therapist who demonstrates qualities of acceptance and compassion, unlike the traumatizing parents of the patient's childhood.
You are correct that there's another result of trauma that occurs in adults exposed to mortal danger, physical and/or emotional, and also cannot escape. There are forms of PTSD where the sufferer can't forget painful memories by which they are haunted. Abused children and soldiers in war are living under similar circumstances. But children are living in a traumatizing environment 24/7 with people upon whom they must depend for years. Abusive parents usually can't tolerate the child reminding them in any way of the abuse they are inflicting so there's one more requirement that author Alice Miller points out..."Thou Shalt Not Be Aware." Children are forced, by their fear of the parent's retribution, to tolerate the abuse but suppress, repress, or dissociate from the emotional effects of living with abusive parents. They dare not allow themselves to become fully aware of just how unbearable the situation is because they are dependent on the very people they fear the most.
A good book about these two, similar but different circumstances is, Trauma and Recovery, by Judith Herman.
Nice talking to you!
Ms. Taylor, your comment "because they are dependent on the very people they fear the most." is an eye opener. Yes, that does make the child's situation different from the soldier's. The soldier can fight back while the child cannot, dares not. The soldier also has colleagues to whom he or she can turn for help. The child likely does not. I had not thought it through even though I, like many other children had an alcoholic German-American father and a somewhat negligent, emotionally distant mother.
I also had not thought about the potential of dreams as an opening in investigating trauma. This is not to say I have not wondered about the nature and significance of dreams in human existence. I have. I regret to say I did not here. The subject of dreams in this context probably seems obvious to you; as it seems you have experience in this subject which I lack. Thanks again for your response.
You're awesome, gerald...keep thinking. :)