Great cognitive leaps often end with awful crashes. Assumptions and presumptions are likewise fraught with danger. One can be 100% right about certain facts but if one makes false connections or attributions, one does not end up in a good place.
Public schools have phenomenal potential and have benefitted certain segments of the populatio…
Great cognitive leaps often end with awful crashes. Assumptions and presumptions are likewise fraught with danger. One can be 100% right about certain facts but if one makes false connections or attributions, one does not end up in a good place.
Public schools have phenomenal potential and have benefitted certain segments of the population significantly. They should be open to all and fully funded by government and their funding should not be shorted or reduced to fund private ventures designed to discriminate or benefit one group, one religion, or one ideology.
Nevertheless, it is necessary to question the accuracy of the following statements from the article:
“Public schools were the great social and economic leveler for the last century of American history;
“Public schools (and free college) made it possible for America to produce an explosion of invention and innovation throughout the mid-20th century;
“… public schools gave many students their first experience of interacting with people who look different from them…awakening many young people to the discrimination and unfairness inherent in how America has historically treated minorities.”
If public schools were “great levelers”, why does the “school-to-prison pipeline affect almost exclusively minority and poor students? If they leveled society to any appreciable degree, why are racists coming out of the woodwork and having a field day in the second decade of the 21st century? If some great number of young people have been truly awakened, why has it been so easy to kill elements of the Civil Rights Act and Affirmative Action programs, and to make CRT into a major political issue across much of the country? What proportion of minority students are suspended, expelled, and harshly disciplined in comparison to white students? Why do we hear so much about the “achievement gap” and lingering discrimination in college admittance and in employment after more than a century of public schooling? Am I just not patient enough?
And, where is the proof of any meaningful connection between public schools and the “explosion of invention and innovation throughout the mid-20th century”? (Public colleges, yes, to a large extent). Where do such claims relative to traditional K-12 schools originate and how are they validated or substantiated? I call BS.
Obviously, being exposed to inspirational and charismatic adults cannot help but benefit certain capable and motivated students. Yet, what about students who are less capable in terms of academics or who are less motivated, and what about all those teachers who are hard-assed authoritarians and those who are only there for a paycheck?
The term, “public education system” gives us our first clue about why the myths about public schools persist, even in a space where people are supposed to know better, Thom. There can be no public education “system”. Adam Smith and Horace Mann were both wrong if they used those terms to describe public schools. Public schools may socialize and train students and they may accidentally or coincidentally contribute greatly to the education of select students who have certain predispositions and proclivities. However, it is a grievous error to pretend that they can educate and that we do not need to figure out better ways to provide authentic and meaningful educational opportunities to ordinary citizens, none of which involve privatization, vouchers, or charter schools.
Why is it so difficult to be honest about these facts? If you want to save public schools, you first have to make them into truly equalizing and hospitable environments for ALL students. As long as they are authoritarian bureaucracies and monopolies for indoctrination under state laws requiring attendance, the privatizers and bigots will be able to promote their malignant enterprises.
Racial biases are not a part of your argument, Robert. This country began with slavery being totally acceptable. There were no white slaves. An internal war was fought between those who devalued slaves,recognizing them to be only partially human, and those who sought to free them, recognizing their humanity.
That racial tension has never fully subsided. When you completely disrespect a class of people you look for ways to punish them for the irritation they cause you. Since Obama was elected and a Black family moved into the White House (the “White” house),racist fervor has escalated dramatically.
This has everything to do with public education and the growth of private and Christian schools. Many evangelical families are homeschooled, completely eliminating social interaction with the “others.”
The goal of the New Republican Party is to eliminate color. In their quest for white purity they will not stop the crusade to dominate all other skin-colors, and the complete defunding of public education is paramount to the cause.
Ms. Connor, I’m a little confused by your statement that racial biases are not a part of my argument. My argument is that correlation is not causation. More exactly, weak correlation is no basis for jumping to wild claims of causation. Public schools have not been a solution to problems, including racial bias and discrimination. That bias and discrimination have persisted by virtue of using tainted and culturally biased values and testing which utilize arbitrary measures and selective morality. They most certainly did not produce the scientific, economic, and other wonders of the past century or two, despite the subjective and anecdotal "evidence" and their propaganda and cheerleading by their own and by sentimental graduates . Racial injustice has been exacerbated in many ways by schools which sort, evaluate, discriminate, and judge students according to repugnant behavioral indices for rating and grading students.
My argument is that people, such as Thom and you continue to erroneously call public schooling “public education”. I refuse to call what they do education and even were I to go along with that misidentification for the purposes of the discussion, it is reprehensible that the damage done to a phenomenal number of students over many generations is wiped from memory and disregarded as merely the cost of teaching the majority or the lucky few some barebones skills and information. In what universe is it okay to write off a sizeable proportion of the child citizens of a country as a loss or as disposable, while the winners go on to hit the jackpot?
Lastly, defunding public schools is a travesty. Why do so many people, including thought leaders such as Thom think that the privatizers will stop and go away if they keep repeating the mantra that our schools are great and defensible, incessantly? If you want to keep public schooling, stop pretending that the schools are not bastions of conservative ideation and belief and havens for right-wing authoritarian conditioning where obedience is the primary lesson and abstraction is the primary methodology. If you want to defeat the enemies of public schooling, do what must be done to remove the justifications that reveal abject failure and egregious harm to millions of students, including the children of the white supremacist snowflakes.
Cynics label the schools as nothing more than babysitters.
Not "grievous error to pretend that they can educate."
From my perspective as someone once familiar with the juvenile justice system, school discipline cases, hearing childhood disability cases, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA,) formerly the Handicap Act of 1973 cases, I'm big on the IEP, individualized educational prescription and think that all students, not just "exceptional"" students benefit from a plan based on a kid's aptitude and potential.
You got that right. High School bored the hell out of me. I spent most of my time day dreaming or being sent to the counselors office, finally just stopped attending. Boring, so boring, I could pass the tests just listening and regurgitating the drone of the teacher,to no avail. I refused to take notes, I got writers cramp. I learned more at the public library than I did in class. I learned about the Holocaust in 1954 from Five Chimney's, The story of an Auschwitz Survivor.. published in 1946.
In the 1950's all students were treated the same, whether they had an IQ of 90 or an IQ of 160.
We did some "illegal" things. We had "tracking," and the 4th track were s-l-o-w. Before we knew about learning disabilities. Some of those slow learners became business owners, hired people who were in the 1st track. We had a huge dropout rate.
When I was in school we had "football study hall" which imparted relatively high test scores. We had 11 assistant football coaches, most taught math and science, some taught at the college level. Some later went on to become college coaches.
some of our teachers were nationally recognized. Several wrote masters theses about it, proselytized it.
We had a terrific grants writer, and one of our principals when I was a kid developed an experimental reading program. The draft had something to do with it but a huge proportion of male students went into education.
Today, despite what Elliott says, minority students thrive in that system. Small town. Poor. Crime ridden. Kids win national competitions in stuff like science, robotics.
Great cognitive leaps often end with awful crashes. Assumptions and presumptions are likewise fraught with danger. One can be 100% right about certain facts but if one makes false connections or attributions, one does not end up in a good place.
Public schools have phenomenal potential and have benefitted certain segments of the population significantly. They should be open to all and fully funded by government and their funding should not be shorted or reduced to fund private ventures designed to discriminate or benefit one group, one religion, or one ideology.
Nevertheless, it is necessary to question the accuracy of the following statements from the article:
“Public schools were the great social and economic leveler for the last century of American history;
“Public schools (and free college) made it possible for America to produce an explosion of invention and innovation throughout the mid-20th century;
“… public schools gave many students their first experience of interacting with people who look different from them…awakening many young people to the discrimination and unfairness inherent in how America has historically treated minorities.”
If public schools were “great levelers”, why does the “school-to-prison pipeline affect almost exclusively minority and poor students? If they leveled society to any appreciable degree, why are racists coming out of the woodwork and having a field day in the second decade of the 21st century? If some great number of young people have been truly awakened, why has it been so easy to kill elements of the Civil Rights Act and Affirmative Action programs, and to make CRT into a major political issue across much of the country? What proportion of minority students are suspended, expelled, and harshly disciplined in comparison to white students? Why do we hear so much about the “achievement gap” and lingering discrimination in college admittance and in employment after more than a century of public schooling? Am I just not patient enough?
And, where is the proof of any meaningful connection between public schools and the “explosion of invention and innovation throughout the mid-20th century”? (Public colleges, yes, to a large extent). Where do such claims relative to traditional K-12 schools originate and how are they validated or substantiated? I call BS.
Obviously, being exposed to inspirational and charismatic adults cannot help but benefit certain capable and motivated students. Yet, what about students who are less capable in terms of academics or who are less motivated, and what about all those teachers who are hard-assed authoritarians and those who are only there for a paycheck?
The term, “public education system” gives us our first clue about why the myths about public schools persist, even in a space where people are supposed to know better, Thom. There can be no public education “system”. Adam Smith and Horace Mann were both wrong if they used those terms to describe public schools. Public schools may socialize and train students and they may accidentally or coincidentally contribute greatly to the education of select students who have certain predispositions and proclivities. However, it is a grievous error to pretend that they can educate and that we do not need to figure out better ways to provide authentic and meaningful educational opportunities to ordinary citizens, none of which involve privatization, vouchers, or charter schools.
Why is it so difficult to be honest about these facts? If you want to save public schools, you first have to make them into truly equalizing and hospitable environments for ALL students. As long as they are authoritarian bureaucracies and monopolies for indoctrination under state laws requiring attendance, the privatizers and bigots will be able to promote their malignant enterprises.
Racial biases are not a part of your argument, Robert. This country began with slavery being totally acceptable. There were no white slaves. An internal war was fought between those who devalued slaves,recognizing them to be only partially human, and those who sought to free them, recognizing their humanity.
That racial tension has never fully subsided. When you completely disrespect a class of people you look for ways to punish them for the irritation they cause you. Since Obama was elected and a Black family moved into the White House (the “White” house),racist fervor has escalated dramatically.
This has everything to do with public education and the growth of private and Christian schools. Many evangelical families are homeschooled, completely eliminating social interaction with the “others.”
The goal of the New Republican Party is to eliminate color. In their quest for white purity they will not stop the crusade to dominate all other skin-colors, and the complete defunding of public education is paramount to the cause.
Ms. Connor, I’m a little confused by your statement that racial biases are not a part of my argument. My argument is that correlation is not causation. More exactly, weak correlation is no basis for jumping to wild claims of causation. Public schools have not been a solution to problems, including racial bias and discrimination. That bias and discrimination have persisted by virtue of using tainted and culturally biased values and testing which utilize arbitrary measures and selective morality. They most certainly did not produce the scientific, economic, and other wonders of the past century or two, despite the subjective and anecdotal "evidence" and their propaganda and cheerleading by their own and by sentimental graduates . Racial injustice has been exacerbated in many ways by schools which sort, evaluate, discriminate, and judge students according to repugnant behavioral indices for rating and grading students.
My argument is that people, such as Thom and you continue to erroneously call public schooling “public education”. I refuse to call what they do education and even were I to go along with that misidentification for the purposes of the discussion, it is reprehensible that the damage done to a phenomenal number of students over many generations is wiped from memory and disregarded as merely the cost of teaching the majority or the lucky few some barebones skills and information. In what universe is it okay to write off a sizeable proportion of the child citizens of a country as a loss or as disposable, while the winners go on to hit the jackpot?
Lastly, defunding public schools is a travesty. Why do so many people, including thought leaders such as Thom think that the privatizers will stop and go away if they keep repeating the mantra that our schools are great and defensible, incessantly? If you want to keep public schooling, stop pretending that the schools are not bastions of conservative ideation and belief and havens for right-wing authoritarian conditioning where obedience is the primary lesson and abstraction is the primary methodology. If you want to defeat the enemies of public schooling, do what must be done to remove the justifications that reveal abject failure and egregious harm to millions of students, including the children of the white supremacist snowflakes.
Cynics label the schools as nothing more than babysitters.
Not "grievous error to pretend that they can educate."
From my perspective as someone once familiar with the juvenile justice system, school discipline cases, hearing childhood disability cases, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA,) formerly the Handicap Act of 1973 cases, I'm big on the IEP, individualized educational prescription and think that all students, not just "exceptional"" students benefit from a plan based on a kid's aptitude and potential.
You got that right. High School bored the hell out of me. I spent most of my time day dreaming or being sent to the counselors office, finally just stopped attending. Boring, so boring, I could pass the tests just listening and regurgitating the drone of the teacher,to no avail. I refused to take notes, I got writers cramp. I learned more at the public library than I did in class. I learned about the Holocaust in 1954 from Five Chimney's, The story of an Auschwitz Survivor.. published in 1946.
In the 1950's all students were treated the same, whether they had an IQ of 90 or an IQ of 160.
Some districts use an IEP for all students.
We did some "illegal" things. We had "tracking," and the 4th track were s-l-o-w. Before we knew about learning disabilities. Some of those slow learners became business owners, hired people who were in the 1st track. We had a huge dropout rate.
When I was in school we had "football study hall" which imparted relatively high test scores. We had 11 assistant football coaches, most taught math and science, some taught at the college level. Some later went on to become college coaches.
Later, through Title I, Chapter 1, we had a "schools without failure" program. https://www.amazon.com/Schools-Without-Failure-William-Glasser/dp/0060904216
some of our teachers were nationally recognized. Several wrote masters theses about it, proselytized it.
We had a terrific grants writer, and one of our principals when I was a kid developed an experimental reading program. The draft had something to do with it but a huge proportion of male students went into education.
Today, despite what Elliott says, minority students thrive in that system. Small town. Poor. Crime ridden. Kids win national competitions in stuff like science, robotics.