For 20 years, Hungary was a functioning democracy; today, it’s a corrupt neofascist oligarchy. Europeans refer to it as “soft fascism” - Orban succeeded in pulling off what Donald Trump tried…
“Born again” Christians see themselves as part of an exclusive club or clan. They feel a strong affinity with others who have shared a conversion experience in which they have shed their ego, acknowledged guilt for “original sin” from their birth, accepted an unshakeable conviction that Jesus was the son of God who died to absolve them of their sins, and that while all non-believers are doomed to burn in eternal hellfire after death, they will be among the relatively small number who will be spared that horror and will spend eternity in a glorious heaven in the presence of God.
It is logical, therefore, that they should cling together and be of aid and comfort to others in this club (cult). We should not b surprised that pretenders, imitators, and phony or hypocrites are out to get into the action and trying to get a piece of the pie, or that White supremacists are exploiting the situation fully. It is to be expected that a billionaire who has been rewarded by God with great wealth should go to great lengths to support and assist a Supreme Court justice and his wife who have been rewarded in other ways and who have professed to be believers. Their loyalty and fealty are to God and to each other and they are part of a movement to change and to save the world, each in their own capacity. The cause is righteous. To interfere is to represent Satan, evil, and liberal license.
There is nothing to investigate. There are no mysteries to solve. You are either on the side of good and God in their clouded eyes, or you are a dangerous and duplicitous enemy. If you are not with them, you are against them, and if you are against them you deserve nothing less than pain, punishment, death, and destruction. So, who you gonna to call? Ghostbusters? Or Merrick Garland, or perhaps Americans United for Separation of Church and State? Just do not ask your local schools to combat superstition and ignorance. They have other priorities.
Reading this, the first thing that cam to mind was how similar Orban's rise to power was to Netanyahu's rise. Both started out as savvy reformers and then.... Sorry if any Jewish people are offended by the comparison. I don't mean this in any ethnically discriminatory way. These guys are all power hungry individuals in the end, regardless of their ethnicity.
I'm not sure how they expect to sustain a white ethno state without children. These countries have a sizable number of women who aren't having children at all in spite of draconian abortion laws. Fertility rates have been well under replacement rates for decades. That will catch up to them as soon as the boomers are gone. The more they double down on fascism, the worse it will get considering how antithetical it is to raising children. Women are well aware of red flags of who's a domestic abuser and have been made to be very careful of who they date let alone have children with. Hence their exploding rates of childlessness and women fleeing to other countries. As soon as these old men are dead and no one's there to replace them, fascism will implode.
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive explanation of what Orban has done to Hungary and the Republicans excitement of jumping in bed with him.
One probably significant difference between the USA and Hungary is size. It is about the size of Indiana. It has no coasts. It is mostly Caucasian-Christian, has a long history of Nazi sympathizing, and it this culturally homogeneous. The USA is more like an Oreo cookie - Diverse on the outside (coasts), white-supremacist on the inside. But with diversity comes wealth, higher education, etc. Those are things most red states lack. What is the capital of Montana? Who cares? What is the state known for? Cowboys and hatefulness? Where are most of the top universities located. Harvard, Yale, Chicago U, Stanford, UCLA, U of Wisconsin, U of Michigan? Blue cities.
The late journalist Hunter Thompson pointed out that fascists gain power through fear and loathing. Their politicians try to convince voters that small, misunderstood minorities are coming for their loved ones to rape and rob and even convince them to cut off their genitals or turn queer. That fear leads them to loathe such minorities and to support fascist laws to stifle information that might infect their loved ones, without realizing that they are enabling their own exploitation.
Blue states do understand that, and they will opposes those changes where they can. Hungarian fascism does not have much in the way of opposition, so control of the masses, stifling freedom of information and annoying alternative views is not so easy in huge countries.
Inflation in Hungary is about 18% I was reading. That comes from too few people in a capitalist economy. Hungary will self-destruct in my opinion within 30 years. Hungry does have socialized medicine. If we could only get our Christian right-wing racist to move to Hungary, they could all be happy together. There is much poverty and hungry and low wages. As usual, the right doesn't address the real problems, which is supernatural thinking, lying, unlimited greed, financial insecurity, the family unit raising takers and not givers. But the right and Hungary do address brown people and gays and the non-christians. They deserve their own little hell on Earth like our GOP does.
So damn glad that LGTBQ+ community is on the rise and religion is on the wane in our country. I do believe that is part of what will save our democracy.
How can any of our Congress praise this petty dictator that doesn't have any respect for women and poor displaced people? Tucker's deference for Orban didn't end well for him, perhaps a part of a trend. Foreign influence on the Republicans just gets worse while they lie lie lie and say there is none. In this case they are openly seeking it!
Orban is disgusting, and I wouldn't waste my money buying anything from Hungary or traveling there.
Apologies for being TL:DR but in self defense an explanation is needed for what might appear to be controversial statements.
The rise of the right in Europe isn’t limited to Hungary, there is France, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway and the one thing that they all have in common is immigration from Africa, the Mideast, and Afghanistan. Some of it is asylum seekers, but most are job seekers, their home nations are unable to provide employment or feed its people, and Europe is the goose that lays the golden egg.
We have much the same situation in America, mixed in with the job seekers are asylum seekers fleeing from threats of murder and forced membership in gangs (political and non political).
There has been a steady stream of job seekers from Afghanistan to Europe, during the occupation, they weren’t fleeing oppression but looking for work.
The situation in America is different than Europe, for one thing the immigrants trying to enter the country without vetting and documentation, belong to the same culture (Christian conservative) and in that it is strange that the fascist right would be opposed to them, because even though they flee oppression and death, or starvation, they bring with them their conservative Christian values of misogyny and homophobia.
The case is more dire and different in Europe. The immigrants (job and asylum seekers) bring with them a culture that is alien to a Europe that has been Christianized. Their culture is not only misogynistic and homophobic, but is as if not more exceptionalistic than Christianity.
Being a Christian, or worse an atheist or Hindu, in a Muslim land is hazardous to your health and well being. The Qur’an andhadiths (both of whichI have read and studied), provide protection to peoples of the book (Christians, Jews and in Iran Zoroastrians) but only if they accept a status of dhimmi (second class). Atheists and polytheists (like Hindus) have to either convert or suffer death or leave,
Those who leave Islam are considered murtad, irtidad and have their lives forfeit.
In the modern era, Islamic nations , have toned it down somewhat, with the exception of Libya, which
Has beheaded Coptic Christians (famous video of the event on the surf). Saudi Arabia does not permit
Infidels to befoul sacred Muslim land , but they need foreign experts so they set aside walled compounds, declare them neutral or non Islamic land.
Iran and Iraq did permit Christians and Jews to live among them, until the late 20th Century.
But woe be the atheist or Hindu.
Salafism, or what SCOTUS calls “Originalism” is making a rebound, and things are shifting rightward in Muslim nations.Saudi Arabia and Iran are examples.
Freedom of religion, despite being guaranteed in the constitution, faces many restrictions in Malaysia. Based on the Malaysian constitution, a Malay in Malaysia must be a Muslim, and Malays cannot convert to another religion.
In 2022, Freedom House rated Pakistan's religious freedom as 1 out of 4, noting that the blasphemy laws are often exploited by religious vigilantes and also curtail the freedom of expression by Christians and Muslims, especially Ahmadis.
Religious discrimination in Pakistan is a serious issue for the human rights situation in modern-day Pakistan. Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Shias, and Ahmadis among other religious minorities often face discrimination and at times are even subjected to violence. In some cases Christian churches and the worshippers themselves have been attacked
I mention this because there is a tipping point in a society where a cohesive culture, becomes strong enough
To force change and that point is about 17%,and drip by drip, the culture is changed.
Charles Martel stopped the Islamization of France and Western Europe at Potieres,. Polish Hussars stopped the Islamization of Central Europe and the entirety of Europe at the gates of Vienna, when they attacked and repelled the Ottoman Turks.
That which was done by force, is being undone gradually with the flow of job and asylum seeking immigrants and the Europeans are alarmed and afraid of what will happen to their culture. And the fears are not unfounded.
Not only do they have to contend with the immigrants but NGO’s like Amnesty International and other human rights organizations are an impediment.
As a progressive I want to see a humane solution to the problem, everyone should have decent nutrition, and shelter and an education, but many an Islamic nation, or would be like Boko Haram (means Books are forbidden) don’t. Nor the Taliban and other salafist movements and nations.
However I understand the angst and fear of having your nation and culture overwhelmed by what is essentially an alien and hostile culture.
Leftist, including a lot of progressives can’t seem to grasp that. Eager to chastise Christianity for it’s extremism, homophobia and misogyny, they give a pass to Islam, for the same and worse. Dominionists aren’t throwin gays and trans off roofs yet, but Iran forces gay mento undergo sexual reassignment surgery.
Yes there are peaceful and delightful Muslims in America and Europe, but they have the luxury of living in a democratic society, should the table be flipped, they would no longer have that luxury and that is what the Europeans fear and that is why the fascists are making inroads and taking over, or on the verge of taking over these nations. (Ex: Marine le Pen)
Now for the rub, who is responsible for this desperate immigration? American and International corporations and the countries that they control. Exploitation
Of countries for profit, the use of their host countries military forces, free of charge, to force and maintain their control of the countries that they exploit.Lead to the misery, death and migration of the people that they exploit.
One need look no further than “Great” Britain in colonial America, the Indian subcontinent, Africa, Belgium, France and Germany in Africa, Britain and America in the Mideast and America in central and south America.
United Fruit, the Bush family, cocaine and the CIA (Iran conrra) Exxon Mobil (Venezuela)are the malefactors. The explotive ruling class that created the misery of Cuba and Venezuela are welcomed with open arms in America, when they flee the country. Let’s not forget Milton Friedman and his Chicago Boys comparative advantage as responsible for the death of Salvatore Allende and the fascist dictatorship of Chile. Haliburton and the World Bank and IMF for the troubles of Bolivia and Argentina. International corporations and financial institutions exploit these countries, foster and fund right wing coups (like Honduras when Obama was president) and then blame “leftists
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive explanation of what Orban has done to Hungary and the Republicans excitement of jumping in bed with him.
“Born again” Christians see themselves as part of an exclusive club or clan. They feel a strong affinity with others who have shared a conversion experience in which they have shed their ego, acknowledged guilt for “original sin” from their birth, accepted an unshakeable conviction that Jesus was the son of God who died to absolve them of their sins, and that while all non-believers are doomed to burn in eternal hellfire after death, they will be among the relatively small number who will be spared that horror and will spend eternity in a glorious heaven in the presence of God.
It is logical, therefore, that they should cling together and be of aid and comfort to others in this club (cult). We should not b surprised that pretenders, imitators, and phony or hypocrites are out to get into the action and trying to get a piece of the pie, or that White supremacists are exploiting the situation fully. It is to be expected that a billionaire who has been rewarded by God with great wealth should go to great lengths to support and assist a Supreme Court justice and his wife who have been rewarded in other ways and who have professed to be believers. Their loyalty and fealty are to God and to each other and they are part of a movement to change and to save the world, each in their own capacity. The cause is righteous. To interfere is to represent Satan, evil, and liberal license.
There is nothing to investigate. There are no mysteries to solve. You are either on the side of good and God in their clouded eyes, or you are a dangerous and duplicitous enemy. If you are not with them, you are against them, and if you are against them you deserve nothing less than pain, punishment, death, and destruction. So, who you gonna to call? Ghostbusters? Or Merrick Garland, or perhaps Americans United for Separation of Church and State? Just do not ask your local schools to combat superstition and ignorance. They have other priorities.
Reading this, the first thing that cam to mind was how similar Orban's rise to power was to Netanyahu's rise. Both started out as savvy reformers and then.... Sorry if any Jewish people are offended by the comparison. I don't mean this in any ethnically discriminatory way. These guys are all power hungry individuals in the end, regardless of their ethnicity.
I'm not sure how they expect to sustain a white ethno state without children. These countries have a sizable number of women who aren't having children at all in spite of draconian abortion laws. Fertility rates have been well under replacement rates for decades. That will catch up to them as soon as the boomers are gone. The more they double down on fascism, the worse it will get considering how antithetical it is to raising children. Women are well aware of red flags of who's a domestic abuser and have been made to be very careful of who they date let alone have children with. Hence their exploding rates of childlessness and women fleeing to other countries. As soon as these old men are dead and no one's there to replace them, fascism will implode.
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive explanation of what Orban has done to Hungary and the Republicans excitement of jumping in bed with him.
One probably significant difference between the USA and Hungary is size. It is about the size of Indiana. It has no coasts. It is mostly Caucasian-Christian, has a long history of Nazi sympathizing, and it this culturally homogeneous. The USA is more like an Oreo cookie - Diverse on the outside (coasts), white-supremacist on the inside. But with diversity comes wealth, higher education, etc. Those are things most red states lack. What is the capital of Montana? Who cares? What is the state known for? Cowboys and hatefulness? Where are most of the top universities located. Harvard, Yale, Chicago U, Stanford, UCLA, U of Wisconsin, U of Michigan? Blue cities.
The late journalist Hunter Thompson pointed out that fascists gain power through fear and loathing. Their politicians try to convince voters that small, misunderstood minorities are coming for their loved ones to rape and rob and even convince them to cut off their genitals or turn queer. That fear leads them to loathe such minorities and to support fascist laws to stifle information that might infect their loved ones, without realizing that they are enabling their own exploitation.
Blue states do understand that, and they will opposes those changes where they can. Hungarian fascism does not have much in the way of opposition, so control of the masses, stifling freedom of information and annoying alternative views is not so easy in huge countries.
Its been a fear in recent years because Trump is so twisted and antidemocratic. And so visible about being so.
The goings on in Red states tells us what this can look like .
Republican officials throwing demonstrators in jail .
The Supreme Court , corrupt and beholden to big money .
The shift of money from the majority to the minority in huge statistical power that goes with it .
No one was as appalled as we needed to be w Russias investment in trump, Orbans presence requested
by Republican Leaders. Its been true all along .
And foolishly we’ve minimized it , finding it hard to believe .
Its time now to loose nuance in looking at this.
It is an attempt to overthrow Democracy
Pure and simple
Its time to work together and reverse this
I wondered how these many people became audacious liars. We can thank Orban for that as well as all his Republican
toadies.
For their willingness to throw every benefit of precious democracy
Aside for money and the power vested in big money .
Just ask yourself why the GOPitiful are going to an authoritarian Dictators’ country in Europe for their convention ?
Sheep apparently welcome.
All well and good, but what do we do about it?
Whining doesn't help!
Brooklyn Herb
Inflation in Hungary is about 18% I was reading. That comes from too few people in a capitalist economy. Hungary will self-destruct in my opinion within 30 years. Hungry does have socialized medicine. If we could only get our Christian right-wing racist to move to Hungary, they could all be happy together. There is much poverty and hungry and low wages. As usual, the right doesn't address the real problems, which is supernatural thinking, lying, unlimited greed, financial insecurity, the family unit raising takers and not givers. But the right and Hungary do address brown people and gays and the non-christians. They deserve their own little hell on Earth like our GOP does.
So damn glad that LGTBQ+ community is on the rise and religion is on the wane in our country. I do believe that is part of what will save our democracy.
How can any of our Congress praise this petty dictator that doesn't have any respect for women and poor displaced people? Tucker's deference for Orban didn't end well for him, perhaps a part of a trend. Foreign influence on the Republicans just gets worse while they lie lie lie and say there is none. In this case they are openly seeking it!
Orban is disgusting, and I wouldn't waste my money buying anything from Hungary or traveling there.
I expect to take flak for this comment,
Apologies for being TL:DR but in self defense an explanation is needed for what might appear to be controversial statements.
The rise of the right in Europe isn’t limited to Hungary, there is France, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway and the one thing that they all have in common is immigration from Africa, the Mideast, and Afghanistan. Some of it is asylum seekers, but most are job seekers, their home nations are unable to provide employment or feed its people, and Europe is the goose that lays the golden egg.
We have much the same situation in America, mixed in with the job seekers are asylum seekers fleeing from threats of murder and forced membership in gangs (political and non political).
There has been a steady stream of job seekers from Afghanistan to Europe, during the occupation, they weren’t fleeing oppression but looking for work.
The situation in America is different than Europe, for one thing the immigrants trying to enter the country without vetting and documentation, belong to the same culture (Christian conservative) and in that it is strange that the fascist right would be opposed to them, because even though they flee oppression and death, or starvation, they bring with them their conservative Christian values of misogyny and homophobia.
The case is more dire and different in Europe. The immigrants (job and asylum seekers) bring with them a culture that is alien to a Europe that has been Christianized. Their culture is not only misogynistic and homophobic, but is as if not more exceptionalistic than Christianity.
Being a Christian, or worse an atheist or Hindu, in a Muslim land is hazardous to your health and well being. The Qur’an andhadiths (both of whichI have read and studied), provide protection to peoples of the book (Christians, Jews and in Iran Zoroastrians) but only if they accept a status of dhimmi (second class). Atheists and polytheists (like Hindus) have to either convert or suffer death or leave,
Those who leave Islam are considered murtad, irtidad and have their lives forfeit.
In the modern era, Islamic nations , have toned it down somewhat, with the exception of Libya, which
Has beheaded Coptic Christians (famous video of the event on the surf). Saudi Arabia does not permit
Infidels to befoul sacred Muslim land , but they need foreign experts so they set aside walled compounds, declare them neutral or non Islamic land.
Iran and Iraq did permit Christians and Jews to live among them, until the late 20th Century.
But woe be the atheist or Hindu.
Salafism, or what SCOTUS calls “Originalism” is making a rebound, and things are shifting rightward in Muslim nations.Saudi Arabia and Iran are examples.
Freedom of religion, despite being guaranteed in the constitution, faces many restrictions in Malaysia. Based on the Malaysian constitution, a Malay in Malaysia must be a Muslim, and Malays cannot convert to another religion.
In 2022, Freedom House rated Pakistan's religious freedom as 1 out of 4, noting that the blasphemy laws are often exploited by religious vigilantes and also curtail the freedom of expression by Christians and Muslims, especially Ahmadis.
Religious discrimination in Pakistan is a serious issue for the human rights situation in modern-day Pakistan. Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Shias, and Ahmadis among other religious minorities often face discrimination and at times are even subjected to violence. In some cases Christian churches and the worshippers themselves have been attacked
One of the significant issues being faced by minority communities is the abuse of the blasphemy law.[3] People belonging to minority religions are often falsely accused of using derogatory remarks against the Islamic prophet Muhammad, resulting in fines, lengthy prison sentences, and sometimes the death penalty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_discrimination_in_Pakistan#:~:text=to%20the%20minorities.-,Freedom%20of%20religion%20in%20Pakistan,Christians%20and%20Muslims%2C%20especially%20Ahmadis.
I mention this because there is a tipping point in a society where a cohesive culture, becomes strong enough
To force change and that point is about 17%,and drip by drip, the culture is changed.
Charles Martel stopped the Islamization of France and Western Europe at Potieres,. Polish Hussars stopped the Islamization of Central Europe and the entirety of Europe at the gates of Vienna, when they attacked and repelled the Ottoman Turks.
That which was done by force, is being undone gradually with the flow of job and asylum seeking immigrants and the Europeans are alarmed and afraid of what will happen to their culture. And the fears are not unfounded.
Not only do they have to contend with the immigrants but NGO’s like Amnesty International and other human rights organizations are an impediment.
As a progressive I want to see a humane solution to the problem, everyone should have decent nutrition, and shelter and an education, but many an Islamic nation, or would be like Boko Haram (means Books are forbidden) don’t. Nor the Taliban and other salafist movements and nations.
However I understand the angst and fear of having your nation and culture overwhelmed by what is essentially an alien and hostile culture.
Leftist, including a lot of progressives can’t seem to grasp that. Eager to chastise Christianity for it’s extremism, homophobia and misogyny, they give a pass to Islam, for the same and worse. Dominionists aren’t throwin gays and trans off roofs yet, but Iran forces gay mento undergo sexual reassignment surgery.
Yes there are peaceful and delightful Muslims in America and Europe, but they have the luxury of living in a democratic society, should the table be flipped, they would no longer have that luxury and that is what the Europeans fear and that is why the fascists are making inroads and taking over, or on the verge of taking over these nations. (Ex: Marine le Pen)
Now for the rub, who is responsible for this desperate immigration? American and International corporations and the countries that they control. Exploitation
Of countries for profit, the use of their host countries military forces, free of charge, to force and maintain their control of the countries that they exploit.Lead to the misery, death and migration of the people that they exploit.
One need look no further than “Great” Britain in colonial America, the Indian subcontinent, Africa, Belgium, France and Germany in Africa, Britain and America in the Mideast and America in central and south America.
United Fruit, the Bush family, cocaine and the CIA (Iran conrra) Exxon Mobil (Venezuela)are the malefactors. The explotive ruling class that created the misery of Cuba and Venezuela are welcomed with open arms in America, when they flee the country. Let’s not forget Milton Friedman and his Chicago Boys comparative advantage as responsible for the death of Salvatore Allende and the fascist dictatorship of Chile. Haliburton and the World Bank and IMF for the troubles of Bolivia and Argentina. International corporations and financial institutions exploit these countries, foster and fund right wing coups (like Honduras when Obama was president) and then blame “leftists
And unions for the troubles.
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive explanation of what Orban has done to Hungary and the Republicans excitement of jumping in bed with him.