Wouldn't it be nice to pay off a modest home and live in it until you die without fearing that property taxes will take it away? The American Dream is the nightmare of constant insecurity. "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin.
In Thom's new book, the last in his Hidden History series, he explains why public schools are on the GOP's hit list. Funding schools with property taxes is a sure way to ensure poor neighborhoods have poor schools and poor people stay that way. We need a wealth tax to fund schools so that all children have the education they need to reach their full potential.
A wealth tax, you see already what the wealthy are saying about that!!!! The wealthy are less apt to pay their fair share. We see it with income tax, I doubt a wealth tax would get off the ground. I like the idea but the reality of greed makes it unlikely it will be enacted
Why did you choose the name "return to normalcy"? Did you know that "return to normalcy" was Harding's campaign slogan to reject Theodore Roosevelt's progressive ideas? Maybe you're hoping a wealth tax could never be enacted.
Property taxes pay for essential services, which we individuals could not afford.
Before there were fire departments, you had to buy fire insurance, and fire companies would actually fight over who got to answer afire, and the water that they hand pumped, would be sprayed on adjacent houses that had paid their insurance to keep them from setting on fire, and Homes would have placards on them with the insurance number.
The police departments were private security forces to protect the wealthy.
If you were an orphan or poor and your father was illiterate and couldn'tafford a tutor, you too would be illiterate and thus poor.
No public sanitation,no public utilities, roads were refuse and horse manure strewn dirt paths with potholes that could swallow a wagon.
The movement has run a bit longer than suggested. In 1966 voters in Nebraska, by constitutional amendment, abolished state property tax. That vote forced the State to introduce sales and income taxes for the first time.
Government at all levels should be funded by a mix of revenue sources, not just one tax or fee. Every revenue model creates distortions. Property taxes for education introduce wealth-based local discrimination.
In places like Wyoming property and severance taxes have created a state government dependency on fossil fuel mining and extraction. Interestingly Wyoming has dealt with this issue in education by funding capital needs for K-12 from state revenues. AND very surprisingly some counties in the fossil fuel belt have embraced using renewables as a source of tax revenue with the use of the very abundant wind resources in the State.
Local sales taxes also introduce a bias towards big-box retail that is often very damaging to a community.
To get to a sensible discussion on this, we need to be honest about what we need from government to live in a civilized and thriving society. This not an easy task but one that I where I can see solid leaders like Tim Walz actually understand.
"Every state, county, and municipality in the country lays first claim to all of the land within its jurisdiction, and we merely rent the land under our homes; that rent is called property tax." Not so fast.
I looked through Thom's article but could not find the word "homestead." There is a huge difference between real estate held by individuals and those held by businesses. Here in Florida real estate held by individuals as a primary residence has a different status than say, commercial or industrial property. Florida homestead laws are meant to protect Florida residents' primary residences from creditors. Specifically, the Florida Constitution states in Article X, Section 4 that a creditor may not force the sale of a Florida resident's primary residence to satisfy that creditor's judgment.
Meanwhile private homes are protected un bankruptcy. A homestead exemption is a bankruptcy protection that allows homeowners to keep their primary residence or receive compensation if they lose it. The exemption applies to both Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 bankruptcy.
When I represented districts in Pa, each school district was a separate taxing unit. We had a property tax. We received a grant from the state based on a reciprocal to the tax base -- poorer districts got larger grants.
Besides the school districts, each municipality also levied property taxes. I also represented may of these -- mostly "townships." The state, the municipality and the school district all used the same appraisal for "ad velorum taxes.
We also had state sales and use taxes, and local wage taxes. Besides state sales taxes, excise taxes are commonly levied on cigarettes, alcoholic beverages, soda, gasoline, insurance premiums, amusement activities, and betting, and typically make up a relatively small and volatile portion of state and local and, to a lesser extent, federal tax collections.
I had cases where every level of taxation were involved, all represented by separate sets of lawyers.
We also had high state inheritance taxes.
A person could hypothetically lose everything (often on purpose) and use the home as a mechanism to stiff creditors-- sometimes even the state.
The scam in Pa was to invest everything in spinning wheels and flintlock rifles, because they were exempt from bankruptcy -- and stiff all creditors.
My great great great grandfather homesteaded 40 acres in Perry Co Ala in 1932, his grandson, my great grandfather homesteaded 160 Acres in Arkansas in 1894, but they lost their homestead rights when they sold their land. Homestead rights are non transferrable
Homesteading is legal in some states, but the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 ended homesteading on most federal lands. The only exception was Alaska, where homesteading was legal until 1986.
States with homesteading laws, but each state has different requirements
The libertarians do not believe in taxes, everything is fee for service. Sidewalks are privately owned and users would pay a fee, that is how ridiculous it gets. Fire and protection, fee for service.
Everything is by contract, and if you don't fulfill your contractual obligations you get hauled into court, only this system makes lawyers the most prominent profession, and a judgement cannot be enforced without police powers,and that requires a state.
Libertarians are ideological idiots.
Somalia is a libertarian"paradise"no real government, but rule by warlords,which is what a libertarian government devolves into.. Think Mad Max, or The Walking Dead franchise.
The west when it was territories.
The Johnson county war of Billy the Kid fame, happened because of long‑standing disputes between these cattle barons, who owned herds numbering in the thousands, and small operators, most running just enough cattle to support their families.
This brings us right back to a discussion of the people in this country that want everything but to pay for nothing. In many cases, people are making huge amounts of money, but actually living off the loans they can get for their assets.
They want educated doctors and nurses when the time comes, but they do not want to pay to educate anyone. They use the roads, airports, police, and fire services, but do not want to pay their share of the cost for them.
Why IS grandma losing her house to fund these rich ass-hats? That's what we need to fix in our tax system, not re-working our revenue stream without alternatives in place. As usual, Republicans and Libertarians shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to governance.
In quantum mechanics, experiments have shown that a subatomic particle, such as an electron or photon, can exist in two different places at the same time, called "superposition." However, when scientists try to pin down (detect) the particle in this state of flux, the superposition "collapses" and the particle is observed to be in only one place in real-time.
As weird and confusing as that is, what if the state of our collective consciousness — indeed, our very reality — is also in constant flux, with many possibilities existing at once, until we "act" in real-time?
For instance, right now, two weeks before this critical election, two basic realities exist in our minds: One is a dystopian nightmare where arguably the world's most flawed, morally corrupt, and demented madman is ruling the world's most powerful country as a fascist authoritarian; another is a bottom-up, free democracy where ordinary citizens enjoy genuine power to influence and implement policies that benefit their health, their jobs, their families, their property, their environment — their world! Can we actually flourish, improving our lives in every way ... an attainable utopia?
But only when we outwardly act does our present state of flux, our superposition, collapse into a single state. So, at this incredibly crucial moment in history, the most meaningful action we can take as individuals, building a movement toward real consequential collective action, is to VOTE. And HOW we vote determines our future reality, good or bad. Our fate is literally in our hands.
Here in Illinois, I qualify for a substantial reduction in my property tax for being a senior citizen. I think there could be a waiver of property taxes for, say, the first $50.000 of market value. Thus, people of moderate income would not be forced out of their homes, and small businesses would have an advantage over the big chain stores.
But I think in a larger sense, we can never "own" land; we are comparatively temporary. If anything, the land owns us, and we will become part of it someday. What's important is that we leave our bit of earth in at least as good a shape as we found it. That may mean recasting property tax as a stewardship fee.
One question! Since the wealthy have ways around paying many of their taxes how will the schools & municipalities get what they need to function. So, yes property taxes can definitely be unfair & can stretch a homeowners budget to the breaking point but we have all seen that people want/need improvements to their towns & counties and when bond issues come up or city or county taxes rise they are up in arms & don't want to pay.
They want all the benefits & none of the cost. Somebody has to pay for us to get these services or maybe we'll enjoy run down schools, pothole filled streets, no or broken street light, empty or volunteer only firefighters with old outdated equipment. Make property taxes fair, yes! But eliminate them, I'm pretty sure those citizens that yelled the most to have property taxes eliminated will be the very same people that complain the most when they can't get a police officer or firefighter or paramedic to respond to their 911 emergency.
Why do you assume the wealthy will always get out of paying their fair share? FDR managed to get them to pay a rate of over 90%. The capitalistic system was threatened, and the wealthy didn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs for them, so they ponied up.
It was immoral to tax labor before WWII. The present system was to pay for the war. The war is over and so unearned income and tariffs need to be what pays for the needs of society. Higher taxes on the rich is the only moral way to make this work besides a living income for all. Taking someones home is immoral.
The answer to that question is found in two 3 credit courses taught in a few law schools. Most of Pennsyltucky was founded because tariffs were enacted on stuff like tin plate, iron and steel. Black Monday, which killed the US seamless pipe industry, occurred because of a trade war between the US and Japan, and rippled across the rust belt. We have a US trade representative, created in 1962 to advise the President on trade issues, lead international trade negotiations, and oversee the resolution of disputes, enforcement actions and other matters before global trade policy organizations such as the World Trade Organization. We have fragile complicated relationships across industries and with many countries. We have an international Trade Commission that investigates and makes determinations in proceedings involving imports claimed to injure a domestic industry or violate U.S. intellectual property rights; provide independent analysis and information on tariffs, trade and competitiveness; and maintain the U.S. tariff schedule. We have a separate United States District Court in NY, the United States Court of International Trade, established under Article III of the Constitution, has nationwide jurisdiction over civil actions arising out of the customs and international trade laws of the United States. We have several administrative courts that are involved, such as the ITC ALJS, to conduct the trial phase of Commission investigations under section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1337). The Chief ALJ assigns the investigation to one of the ALJs, who rules on motions during the trial stage. After the trial, the ALJ makes an initial determination as to whether a violation of section 337 exists, and makes findings of fact and law and recommendations as appropriate. Although I was not one of their judges, I was president of the organization that represented them, and had to argue their issues at ACUS, the AN+BA, etc.
I understand that tariffs protect and promote U.S. business by increasing the cost of foreign goods. But simply saying tariffs pay for society's needs, as Trump is trying to say, is misleading.
The war has never been over. Korea, Viet Nam, the Cold War (the most expensive), Iraq, Afghanistan and on. Once the Military Industrial Complex realized war (defense) was the most profitable business ever, it made sure we always kept one going.
Clayton, taxation is not about morality. Moral arguments are a loser, because morality is subjective.In some cultures consuming the dead is moral, in other cultures female genital mutilation is moral, and in two Abrahamic cultures male genital mutilation is required.
As regards the income tax. The law does not tax wages, only income, wages and salary are not income, income is what you get from investing.
I' have posted above how the IRS gets around the prohibition of taxing wages. They do it by forcing employers to deduct taxes issued a W-2 or 1099 and then requiring you to report deductions on a form 1040, and then come after you for not reporting or accurate filing.
This is a false libertarian argument. The "government " is all of us, and we are a community. All land belongs to the community and individuals need to pay rent for its use. If the rent is unpaid, then it returns to the community.
Looks like another part of the plan to destroy any semblance of democracy. Authoritarian governments can not exist in an educated populace. In this case the right is convincing people that they don't need to fund the education of their children or maintain local infrastructure. A civilization rests in the hands of the people who live in it. If they let go the civilization collapses. As it does it is replaced by autocrats and religion. The citizens become a superstitious mob, governable only by the cruelest of measures.
I have thought for quite some time that property taxes should be restricted as they apply to the poor and retired, and those who lose income for whatever reason. If property taxes were limited to a certain level of a taxpayer's income, that person would not be forced out of a long-time residence because the value increased and the taxes went up beyond their ability to pay. This also prevents politicians from loading up a local constituency with tax-funded projects the local economy cannot support. And it allows people to stay in their homes until they die, if that's what they wish to do.
People who choose to remain childless, should not be punished. After all, how is one to survive, when one pays 35% of their income in taxes while their neighbors lifestyle choices will allow them to pay 2%?
If the shoe was on the other foot, the whining procreators and their hatred could be heard from the Earth to the Sun and back. Under fascism, having a child is bringing them into a world where they will be exploited and punished!
Currently, IMHO, a family of four needs a wage of roughly $50,000 a year, before taxes, and if all people were treated equally, with social security and Medicare included, included, the child abusers would need a minimum wage of about $38 per hour, for 40 hours a week. That does not include college for the abused child, or healthcare if the employer does not provide it or clothing or spending money. Oh hell, make it $42 an hour!
Who would hire someone that needs $42 an hour to barely get by? That is about triple the minimum wage currently in blue states and six times the minimum wage in red States. The current minimum wage needs to be tripled! We could solve the single peoples homeless problems out on the streets. Lots of luck trying to get the billionaires to pay their fair share of taxes which could probably pay for it all! Quit picking on those rich single people that don't exist! Most of them were dumped by their spouses because they don't earn enough money!
Once the real estate tax is removed what is the plan to replace it? My beef with real estate taxes is my home has been paying taxes for over a hundred years and built the infrastructure / a home built last year pays similar tax to me
Thom, it is not that municipalities, courts, states have first claim to the land, after churches have laid claim,
It is the other way around.
All land is allodial, obtained by conquest. Quillaume le betard conquerant, claimed all of England as his personal property, his purpose for the conquest was to use it as a tax farm, to support his lifestyle and social status in Rouen Normandy.
He rewarded his Norman Lieutenants with fiefdoms,, But the barons who controlled these fiefdoms, became unhappy with how the Williams successors handled them, his son and grandsons were of a disposition to arbitrarily disenfranchise a baron of land and title, and hand it to a court favorite.
They rebelled and threatened to with hold taxes and military support unless he changed the status quo.
The solution was fee simple. A device in which the baron was legally protected and he could pass on his title and land to his heir (in primogeniture) so long as he obeyed the Kings laws, pledged fealty, paid his taxes and contributed men and arms to the Kings defense. If he failed in anyone of these he could be disenfranchise, usually charged with treason, for which the offense was to be hung, drawn and quartered., but not necessarily.
The original 13 colonies, were considered after the revolution, sovereign states united by laws which they agreed to abide by, by majority rule, all rights not conferred to the federal government, by the majority, remained with the sovereign states.
Every state in the union was created by force, by conquest, where the original inhabitants were forced out, or forced to concede their rights by treaty.
The common law of England was integrated into and adopted by the various states and the federal government.
The 50 states are, in effect, sovereign nations, bound together by a constitution, which preempts sovereign rights, and any rights not enumerated in the Constitution are left to the sovereign states
And that leads to fee simple. Anybody and everybody who has bought property in England and America, has not bought property, but has bought a title to it, a title held in fee simple.
Fee is feudal an estate of land, especially one held on condition of feudal service
I am not advocating or defending anything, just explaining the situation.
Tax exemption is granted by Revenue and Taxation Code section 207 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship and school activities . Revenue and Taxation Code section 214, subdivision (a) requires exclusive use of property for the organization's exempt purpose
But that only applies to Federal Income Taxes, each state can and has adopted its own local laws.
The Internal Revenue Service was created in 1862 by Lincoln, Title 26 USC regulates the Internal Revenue Service and defines who, how and what is taxed.
Title 26 does not tax labor, only income, Congress passes laws that define and exclude eligibility. Thus what we have is an act of Congress. A Republican Congress under Trump wanted to punish blue states, so it deleted the ability of homeowners to deduct mortgage interest,
. The government stopped allowing a tax deduction for credit card interest in the 1980s., under Reagan, once the public became addicted to credit cards. Tax policy by congress is used to reward and punish behavior. By the way Rural America, the Republican heartland, was not punished by removing he mortgage interest deduction, in the cities they are mostly rentals,in the rural areas, the homes are mortgage free and inherited. Farmers business owners and landlords still take mortgage interest as a business expense. Home owners do not have that option.
The IRS has a way of getting around the fact that salaries and wages are not income. Congress passed a law requring tax withholding and reporting of all employees, and even contractors or people to whom they paid $600 or more to for services rendered.
And then they require everyone who has received a W-2 or Form 1090, to file a form 1040, they have you by a Catch 22.
Don't get me wrong, I don't object to pay taxes, it is the price we pay to live in a civilized society, without them there would have been no public education, illiteracy would prevail, no infrastructure no paved roads, no electricity, no dams, we would be living essentially as our ancestors did,in the 18th Century.
I kind of like the world I live in, minus of course the MAGAts and tyrants.
MAGAt encompasses the whole range of the right, not just Trump humpers.
I don't currently like this system, with the magats and the tyrant's, and unlimited greed and the family unit and the bribing of politicians and tax deductions for the religious, and no financial security, but other than that it's barely bearable.
The idea of property ownership in this country is not so simple as the issue of property tax. The land that many of us own was stolen from the indigenous peoples who occupied it before Europeans arrived. Their ideas of "property ownership" were different than those of the Europeans. This discussion of the current day property ownership and tax makes me cringe.
Wouldn't it be nice to pay off a modest home and live in it until you die without fearing that property taxes will take it away? The American Dream is the nightmare of constant insecurity. "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin.
In Thom's new book, the last in his Hidden History series, he explains why public schools are on the GOP's hit list. Funding schools with property taxes is a sure way to ensure poor neighborhoods have poor schools and poor people stay that way. We need a wealth tax to fund schools so that all children have the education they need to reach their full potential.
A wealth tax, you see already what the wealthy are saying about that!!!! The wealthy are less apt to pay their fair share. We see it with income tax, I doubt a wealth tax would get off the ground. I like the idea but the reality of greed makes it unlikely it will be enacted
Why did you choose the name "return to normalcy"? Did you know that "return to normalcy" was Harding's campaign slogan to reject Theodore Roosevelt's progressive ideas? Maybe you're hoping a wealth tax could never be enacted.
Return to normalcy is cool, I think she chose that name because Trump is so abnormal? She's 81 she said? and very intelligent.
Isn't the word "normality" ?
?, Busted 😟
Property taxes pay for essential services, which we individuals could not afford.
Before there were fire departments, you had to buy fire insurance, and fire companies would actually fight over who got to answer afire, and the water that they hand pumped, would be sprayed on adjacent houses that had paid their insurance to keep them from setting on fire, and Homes would have placards on them with the insurance number.
The police departments were private security forces to protect the wealthy.
If you were an orphan or poor and your father was illiterate and couldn'tafford a tutor, you too would be illiterate and thus poor.
No public sanitation,no public utilities, roads were refuse and horse manure strewn dirt paths with potholes that could swallow a wagon.
The movement has run a bit longer than suggested. In 1966 voters in Nebraska, by constitutional amendment, abolished state property tax. That vote forced the State to introduce sales and income taxes for the first time.
Government at all levels should be funded by a mix of revenue sources, not just one tax or fee. Every revenue model creates distortions. Property taxes for education introduce wealth-based local discrimination.
In places like Wyoming property and severance taxes have created a state government dependency on fossil fuel mining and extraction. Interestingly Wyoming has dealt with this issue in education by funding capital needs for K-12 from state revenues. AND very surprisingly some counties in the fossil fuel belt have embraced using renewables as a source of tax revenue with the use of the very abundant wind resources in the State.
Local sales taxes also introduce a bias towards big-box retail that is often very damaging to a community.
To get to a sensible discussion on this, we need to be honest about what we need from government to live in a civilized and thriving society. This not an easy task but one that I where I can see solid leaders like Tim Walz actually understand.
"Every state, county, and municipality in the country lays first claim to all of the land within its jurisdiction, and we merely rent the land under our homes; that rent is called property tax." Not so fast.
I looked through Thom's article but could not find the word "homestead." There is a huge difference between real estate held by individuals and those held by businesses. Here in Florida real estate held by individuals as a primary residence has a different status than say, commercial or industrial property. Florida homestead laws are meant to protect Florida residents' primary residences from creditors. Specifically, the Florida Constitution states in Article X, Section 4 that a creditor may not force the sale of a Florida resident's primary residence to satisfy that creditor's judgment.
Meanwhile private homes are protected un bankruptcy. A homestead exemption is a bankruptcy protection that allows homeowners to keep their primary residence or receive compensation if they lose it. The exemption applies to both Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 bankruptcy.
When I represented districts in Pa, each school district was a separate taxing unit. We had a property tax. We received a grant from the state based on a reciprocal to the tax base -- poorer districts got larger grants.
Besides the school districts, each municipality also levied property taxes. I also represented may of these -- mostly "townships." The state, the municipality and the school district all used the same appraisal for "ad velorum taxes.
We also had state sales and use taxes, and local wage taxes. Besides state sales taxes, excise taxes are commonly levied on cigarettes, alcoholic beverages, soda, gasoline, insurance premiums, amusement activities, and betting, and typically make up a relatively small and volatile portion of state and local and, to a lesser extent, federal tax collections.
I had cases where every level of taxation were involved, all represented by separate sets of lawyers.
We also had high state inheritance taxes.
A person could hypothetically lose everything (often on purpose) and use the home as a mechanism to stiff creditors-- sometimes even the state.
The scam in Pa was to invest everything in spinning wheels and flintlock rifles, because they were exempt from bankruptcy -- and stiff all creditors.
My great great great grandfather homesteaded 40 acres in Perry Co Ala in 1932, his grandson, my great grandfather homesteaded 160 Acres in Arkansas in 1894, but they lost their homestead rights when they sold their land. Homestead rights are non transferrable
Homesteading is legal in some states, but the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 ended homesteading on most federal lands. The only exception was Alaska, where homesteading was legal until 1986.
States with homesteading laws, but each state has different requirements
There are 18 states with homesteading laws:
What we need from government most of all is government. It is now clear that anyone that has enough money is above the law.
The libertarians do not believe in taxes, everything is fee for service. Sidewalks are privately owned and users would pay a fee, that is how ridiculous it gets. Fire and protection, fee for service.
Everything is by contract, and if you don't fulfill your contractual obligations you get hauled into court, only this system makes lawyers the most prominent profession, and a judgement cannot be enforced without police powers,and that requires a state.
Libertarians are ideological idiots.
Somalia is a libertarian"paradise"no real government, but rule by warlords,which is what a libertarian government devolves into.. Think Mad Max, or The Walking Dead franchise.
The west when it was territories.
The Johnson county war of Billy the Kid fame, happened because of long‑standing disputes between these cattle barons, who owned herds numbering in the thousands, and small operators, most running just enough cattle to support their families.
This brings us right back to a discussion of the people in this country that want everything but to pay for nothing. In many cases, people are making huge amounts of money, but actually living off the loans they can get for their assets.
They want educated doctors and nurses when the time comes, but they do not want to pay to educate anyone. They use the roads, airports, police, and fire services, but do not want to pay their share of the cost for them.
Why IS grandma losing her house to fund these rich ass-hats? That's what we need to fix in our tax system, not re-working our revenue stream without alternatives in place. As usual, Republicans and Libertarians shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to governance.
Just say no to tax havens and loopholes.
In quantum mechanics, experiments have shown that a subatomic particle, such as an electron or photon, can exist in two different places at the same time, called "superposition." However, when scientists try to pin down (detect) the particle in this state of flux, the superposition "collapses" and the particle is observed to be in only one place in real-time.
As weird and confusing as that is, what if the state of our collective consciousness — indeed, our very reality — is also in constant flux, with many possibilities existing at once, until we "act" in real-time?
For instance, right now, two weeks before this critical election, two basic realities exist in our minds: One is a dystopian nightmare where arguably the world's most flawed, morally corrupt, and demented madman is ruling the world's most powerful country as a fascist authoritarian; another is a bottom-up, free democracy where ordinary citizens enjoy genuine power to influence and implement policies that benefit their health, their jobs, their families, their property, their environment — their world! Can we actually flourish, improving our lives in every way ... an attainable utopia?
But only when we outwardly act does our present state of flux, our superposition, collapse into a single state. So, at this incredibly crucial moment in history, the most meaningful action we can take as individuals, building a movement toward real consequential collective action, is to VOTE. And HOW we vote determines our future reality, good or bad. Our fate is literally in our hands.
Schrodinger's election!
Deepspace. "THEORETICAL PHYSICS" when it comes to quantum mechanics. Theoretical until proven.
On the other hand, nothing exists for me, beyond the range of my periphery. And that includes my computer screen, phone and TV.
"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr:
Here in Illinois, I qualify for a substantial reduction in my property tax for being a senior citizen. I think there could be a waiver of property taxes for, say, the first $50.000 of market value. Thus, people of moderate income would not be forced out of their homes, and small businesses would have an advantage over the big chain stores.
But I think in a larger sense, we can never "own" land; we are comparatively temporary. If anything, the land owns us, and we will become part of it someday. What's important is that we leave our bit of earth in at least as good a shape as we found it. That may mean recasting property tax as a stewardship fee.
I have the same opportunity in my county, but our retirement income is to high to qualify.
One question! Since the wealthy have ways around paying many of their taxes how will the schools & municipalities get what they need to function. So, yes property taxes can definitely be unfair & can stretch a homeowners budget to the breaking point but we have all seen that people want/need improvements to their towns & counties and when bond issues come up or city or county taxes rise they are up in arms & don't want to pay.
They want all the benefits & none of the cost. Somebody has to pay for us to get these services or maybe we'll enjoy run down schools, pothole filled streets, no or broken street light, empty or volunteer only firefighters with old outdated equipment. Make property taxes fair, yes! But eliminate them, I'm pretty sure those citizens that yelled the most to have property taxes eliminated will be the very same people that complain the most when they can't get a police officer or firefighter or paramedic to respond to their 911 emergency.
Why do you assume the wealthy will always get out of paying their fair share? FDR managed to get them to pay a rate of over 90%. The capitalistic system was threatened, and the wealthy didn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs for them, so they ponied up.
It was immoral to tax labor before WWII. The present system was to pay for the war. The war is over and so unearned income and tariffs need to be what pays for the needs of society. Higher taxes on the rich is the only moral way to make this work besides a living income for all. Taking someones home is immoral.
How do tariffs pay for the needs of society?
The answer to that question is found in two 3 credit courses taught in a few law schools. Most of Pennsyltucky was founded because tariffs were enacted on stuff like tin plate, iron and steel. Black Monday, which killed the US seamless pipe industry, occurred because of a trade war between the US and Japan, and rippled across the rust belt. We have a US trade representative, created in 1962 to advise the President on trade issues, lead international trade negotiations, and oversee the resolution of disputes, enforcement actions and other matters before global trade policy organizations such as the World Trade Organization. We have fragile complicated relationships across industries and with many countries. We have an international Trade Commission that investigates and makes determinations in proceedings involving imports claimed to injure a domestic industry or violate U.S. intellectual property rights; provide independent analysis and information on tariffs, trade and competitiveness; and maintain the U.S. tariff schedule. We have a separate United States District Court in NY, the United States Court of International Trade, established under Article III of the Constitution, has nationwide jurisdiction over civil actions arising out of the customs and international trade laws of the United States. We have several administrative courts that are involved, such as the ITC ALJS, to conduct the trial phase of Commission investigations under section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1337). The Chief ALJ assigns the investigation to one of the ALJs, who rules on motions during the trial stage. After the trial, the ALJ makes an initial determination as to whether a violation of section 337 exists, and makes findings of fact and law and recommendations as appropriate. Although I was not one of their judges, I was president of the organization that represented them, and had to argue their issues at ACUS, the AN+BA, etc.
I understand that tariffs protect and promote U.S. business by increasing the cost of foreign goods. But simply saying tariffs pay for society's needs, as Trump is trying to say, is misleading.
He has no concept of how to use them. As you know I'd go after OPEC for undermining our economy since 1973.
The did when society was simple, and a small army, no infrastructure and people died early and did not live long enough to become a burden.
The war has never been over. Korea, Viet Nam, the Cold War (the most expensive), Iraq, Afghanistan and on. Once the Military Industrial Complex realized war (defense) was the most profitable business ever, it made sure we always kept one going.
Clayton, taxation is not about morality. Moral arguments are a loser, because morality is subjective.In some cultures consuming the dead is moral, in other cultures female genital mutilation is moral, and in two Abrahamic cultures male genital mutilation is required.
As regards the income tax. The law does not tax wages, only income, wages and salary are not income, income is what you get from investing.
I' have posted above how the IRS gets around the prohibition of taxing wages. They do it by forcing employers to deduct taxes issued a W-2 or 1099 and then requiring you to report deductions on a form 1040, and then come after you for not reporting or accurate filing.
This is a false libertarian argument. The "government " is all of us, and we are a community. All land belongs to the community and individuals need to pay rent for its use. If the rent is unpaid, then it returns to the community.
Looks like another part of the plan to destroy any semblance of democracy. Authoritarian governments can not exist in an educated populace. In this case the right is convincing people that they don't need to fund the education of their children or maintain local infrastructure. A civilization rests in the hands of the people who live in it. If they let go the civilization collapses. As it does it is replaced by autocrats and religion. The citizens become a superstitious mob, governable only by the cruelest of measures.
A most definitive article on the history of property in the US. A must read & very well written.
Thank you !
I have thought for quite some time that property taxes should be restricted as they apply to the poor and retired, and those who lose income for whatever reason. If property taxes were limited to a certain level of a taxpayer's income, that person would not be forced out of a long-time residence because the value increased and the taxes went up beyond their ability to pay. This also prevents politicians from loading up a local constituency with tax-funded projects the local economy cannot support. And it allows people to stay in their homes until they die, if that's what they wish to do.
People who choose to remain childless, should not be punished. After all, how is one to survive, when one pays 35% of their income in taxes while their neighbors lifestyle choices will allow them to pay 2%?
If the shoe was on the other foot, the whining procreators and their hatred could be heard from the Earth to the Sun and back. Under fascism, having a child is bringing them into a world where they will be exploited and punished!
Currently, IMHO, a family of four needs a wage of roughly $50,000 a year, before taxes, and if all people were treated equally, with social security and Medicare included, included, the child abusers would need a minimum wage of about $38 per hour, for 40 hours a week. That does not include college for the abused child, or healthcare if the employer does not provide it or clothing or spending money. Oh hell, make it $42 an hour!
Who would hire someone that needs $42 an hour to barely get by? That is about triple the minimum wage currently in blue states and six times the minimum wage in red States. The current minimum wage needs to be tripled! We could solve the single peoples homeless problems out on the streets. Lots of luck trying to get the billionaires to pay their fair share of taxes which could probably pay for it all! Quit picking on those rich single people that don't exist! Most of them were dumped by their spouses because they don't earn enough money!
Once the real estate tax is removed what is the plan to replace it? My beef with real estate taxes is my home has been paying taxes for over a hundred years and built the infrastructure / a home built last year pays similar tax to me
Thom, it is not that municipalities, courts, states have first claim to the land, after churches have laid claim,
It is the other way around.
All land is allodial, obtained by conquest. Quillaume le betard conquerant, claimed all of England as his personal property, his purpose for the conquest was to use it as a tax farm, to support his lifestyle and social status in Rouen Normandy.
He rewarded his Norman Lieutenants with fiefdoms,, But the barons who controlled these fiefdoms, became unhappy with how the Williams successors handled them, his son and grandsons were of a disposition to arbitrarily disenfranchise a baron of land and title, and hand it to a court favorite.
They rebelled and threatened to with hold taxes and military support unless he changed the status quo.
The solution was fee simple. A device in which the baron was legally protected and he could pass on his title and land to his heir (in primogeniture) so long as he obeyed the Kings laws, pledged fealty, paid his taxes and contributed men and arms to the Kings defense. If he failed in anyone of these he could be disenfranchise, usually charged with treason, for which the offense was to be hung, drawn and quartered., but not necessarily.
The original 13 colonies, were considered after the revolution, sovereign states united by laws which they agreed to abide by, by majority rule, all rights not conferred to the federal government, by the majority, remained with the sovereign states.
Every state in the union was created by force, by conquest, where the original inhabitants were forced out, or forced to concede their rights by treaty.
The common law of England was integrated into and adopted by the various states and the federal government.
The 50 states are, in effect, sovereign nations, bound together by a constitution, which preempts sovereign rights, and any rights not enumerated in the Constitution are left to the sovereign states
And that leads to fee simple. Anybody and everybody who has bought property in England and America, has not bought property, but has bought a title to it, a title held in fee simple.
Fee is feudal an estate of land, especially one held on condition of feudal service
I am not advocating or defending anything, just explaining the situation.
Tax exemption is granted by Revenue and Taxation Code section 207 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship and school activities . Revenue and Taxation Code section 214, subdivision (a) requires exclusive use of property for the organization's exempt purpose
But that only applies to Federal Income Taxes, each state can and has adopted its own local laws.
The Internal Revenue Service was created in 1862 by Lincoln, Title 26 USC regulates the Internal Revenue Service and defines who, how and what is taxed.
Title 26 does not tax labor, only income, Congress passes laws that define and exclude eligibility. Thus what we have is an act of Congress. A Republican Congress under Trump wanted to punish blue states, so it deleted the ability of homeowners to deduct mortgage interest,
. The government stopped allowing a tax deduction for credit card interest in the 1980s., under Reagan, once the public became addicted to credit cards. Tax policy by congress is used to reward and punish behavior. By the way Rural America, the Republican heartland, was not punished by removing he mortgage interest deduction, in the cities they are mostly rentals,in the rural areas, the homes are mortgage free and inherited. Farmers business owners and landlords still take mortgage interest as a business expense. Home owners do not have that option.
The IRS has a way of getting around the fact that salaries and wages are not income. Congress passed a law requring tax withholding and reporting of all employees, and even contractors or people to whom they paid $600 or more to for services rendered.
And then they require everyone who has received a W-2 or Form 1090, to file a form 1040, they have you by a Catch 22.
Don't get me wrong, I don't object to pay taxes, it is the price we pay to live in a civilized society, without them there would have been no public education, illiteracy would prevail, no infrastructure no paved roads, no electricity, no dams, we would be living essentially as our ancestors did,in the 18th Century.
I kind of like the world I live in, minus of course the MAGAts and tyrants.
MAGAt encompasses the whole range of the right, not just Trump humpers.
I don't currently like this system, with the magats and the tyrant's, and unlimited greed and the family unit and the bribing of politicians and tax deductions for the religious, and no financial security, but other than that it's barely bearable.
The idea of property ownership in this country is not so simple as the issue of property tax. The land that many of us own was stolen from the indigenous peoples who occupied it before Europeans arrived. Their ideas of "property ownership" were different than those of the Europeans. This discussion of the current day property ownership and tax makes me cringe.