Interesting response. I am not a Jew, of course but know something about historical Judaism and it's origins., What I know can be disputatious and evoke defensive reactions and I want no part of contributing to the hate.
There is enough of that, the scapegoats are lined up, trans, Jews, queers, blacks, women and sadly too many who are sca…
Interesting response. I am not a Jew, of course but know something about historical Judaism and it's origins., What I know can be disputatious and evoke defensive reactions and I want no part of contributing to the hate.
There is enough of that, the scapegoats are lined up, trans, Jews, queers, blacks, women and sadly too many who are scapegoated have embraced the scapegoaters.
I have read Arthur Koestlers the 13th Tribe and his argument is persuasive, and as a genetic genealogist I have had the opportunity to compare DNA of various cultures and ethnicities.
My YDNA is a sub, sub,sub, clade of R-Z93, is the ancestor of at least 4 descendant lineages known as R-Z94, R-YP5585, R-FGC82884, & R-BY226207.
Ashkenazim Jews who are R1a1 are R-Z94, I am subclade R-YP5585,
The clades arose in the region between the Black and Caspian sea.
Ashkenazim are of different genetic stock than Sephardim, but there is, because of interbreeding of populations DNA like the Cohanim DNA found in Ashkenazim and Sephardim
It is increasingly difficult to discuss this because of the thousands years history of Jewish oppression, be it Edward I or Ferdinand and Isabella, or the Catholic Church and Adolph Hitler
My maternal great grandmother was a German Jew name of Bena Schaum., she married a Catholic by name of Bowers
Anyway I read Koestlers book and all I can say is it computes, King Buhlan under pressure from Russian Orthodox and Islam, called the reps to his court, inquired of them their beliefs, found a common denominator Abraham and took the third way, and had rabbis come to his kingdom to teach his people and convert them.
I don't see a problem, but there is the thousand year problem and political sensitivity that stands in the way.
Arthur Koestler was himself a Jew, and he opens his book proclaiming that Hitlers persecution of the Ashkenazi was all wrong because they weren't Hebrews.
As regards British Israel, I know all about it,as I understand it Benjamin D'Israeli was behind it, he even had genealogical trees crafted to prove that Queen Victoria was descended from David. And as I said the Ferrar Fenton bible was the British Israel bible.
Actually Godfrey Higgins does not fit into the category you describe, He was a 19th Century explorer, his book is actually two books, large and all fine print documenting so much of the Indus Valley and it's culture.
As regards the native tribe in Colorado, having the same DNA. The thing in the telling is not the major haplogroup, but the SNP.
In my project there is a man from Pradesh India, that has the same DNA as me, R-YP5585, but there is a man from Iran and two from Kuwait who have the same subclade of YP5585 as me, which is R-YP5582, however my subclade appears, skipping 3,000 miles and years from the Caspian sea to Yorkshire England, because the current subclade of R-YP5582 that defines me is R-YP5578.
The natives of North America and South America share the same major hapologoups like C, but they have different subclades, indicating different origins, North American Indians share DNA with North Asians, but South American peoples share DNA with South east Asians, and this fact has the anthropologists and archaelogists all in a tither, because it refutes the Siberianlandbrdige hypothesis.
Hell they have even identified Mediterranean or Mideast DNA in the Paracus Skulls of Peru, (they have elongated skulls which the establishment claims were elongated by binding, yet they have a completely different seam where the parts of the skull join together.
Anway I share YDNA with Ashkkenazi Jews, but not with pure Sephardim.
Oh and my mitochondrial DNA which came down to me via the female line is J2a1b3, which is also prominent among the Ashkenazim.
Daniel I am very apprehensive about even broaching the subject, because it is fraught with identity and political problems, but I've never been one to run away from a problem or controversy. And I am certainly not an antisemite, though I don't like what Bibi, the Likkud and the Orthodox right are doing to Israel.
It was once more liberal and welcoming than America, but all of that has disappeared.,and not just because of Oct 7th,it started before, when the extreme right took over the government, just as has done here in America.
For the most part, only the mother's line is measured.
Cohanim. My mother's family -- arguably priests. My dad's line is Levite. All Askenazi.
Koestler is bullshit. Some of my people were expelled from Spain -- wound up in the "pale of settlenent" then to Sweden and Wales.... 100% Ashkenazi. There are Jewish remains from the Roman period in England, France, etc.
Some Jews from Hungary, Austuria, were subjects of the Hapsburgs, who took over Spain. Lots of interaction.
Yes I know descent is matrilineal in Judaism.. I've always wondered why, but figure it is because we know for certain the mother, but not always the father, and when you live in a world were rapine is common.. well
Yep Jewish remains in Scotland and England, etc Sephardim, not Ashkenazim, Ashekenazim didn't reach that far., that early and old Ben D'Israeli, he too was Ashkenazim.
I know that Koestler is controversial, main reason is it is politics and identity.
Here is what I know, at the 3rd World Jewish Conference there was a proclamation that from henceforth all Jews were Ashkenazim.
Actually, as of late it has been Jews that have been claiming that Columbus was a Jew, and by coincidence he set sail for the new world on three days after the expulsion edict took effect.
I have a book and had a discussion with the author, that the Huguenots were Jews of Catalan who chose the new protestantism, instead of Catholicism.
. If that is true then Paul Revere, son of Apollonius Revoire was a Jew as his father was a Huguenot.
Also the Huguenots of Manakin Town. a 1,000 acre patent granted by King William to Huguenots. An independent community named Manakin Sabot,inside the city limits of Richmond.
One of my sixth great grandmothers was the daughter of a Huguenot
You know something Daniel. I was never encumbered or thought much about Identity politics until the election of Trump in 2016, then it seemed to take over everything.
I just wish there were no ideologies,and the the whole world were mongrels, and then there wouldn't be any of this bullslhit about my god is better than yours, my race is superior to yours, your culture is inferior to mine, women, queers and non believers should confirm or die,.
Interesting response. I am not a Jew, of course but know something about historical Judaism and it's origins., What I know can be disputatious and evoke defensive reactions and I want no part of contributing to the hate.
There is enough of that, the scapegoats are lined up, trans, Jews, queers, blacks, women and sadly too many who are scapegoated have embraced the scapegoaters.
I have read Arthur Koestlers the 13th Tribe and his argument is persuasive, and as a genetic genealogist I have had the opportunity to compare DNA of various cultures and ethnicities.
My YDNA is a sub, sub,sub, clade of R-Z93, is the ancestor of at least 4 descendant lineages known as R-Z94, R-YP5585, R-FGC82884, & R-BY226207.
Ashkenazim Jews who are R1a1 are R-Z94, I am subclade R-YP5585,
The clades arose in the region between the Black and Caspian sea.
Ashkenazim are of different genetic stock than Sephardim, but there is, because of interbreeding of populations DNA like the Cohanim DNA found in Ashkenazim and Sephardim
It is increasingly difficult to discuss this because of the thousands years history of Jewish oppression, be it Edward I or Ferdinand and Isabella, or the Catholic Church and Adolph Hitler
My maternal great grandmother was a German Jew name of Bena Schaum., she married a Catholic by name of Bowers
Anyway I read Koestlers book and all I can say is it computes, King Buhlan under pressure from Russian Orthodox and Islam, called the reps to his court, inquired of them their beliefs, found a common denominator Abraham and took the third way, and had rabbis come to his kingdom to teach his people and convert them.
I don't see a problem, but there is the thousand year problem and political sensitivity that stands in the way.
Arthur Koestler was himself a Jew, and he opens his book proclaiming that Hitlers persecution of the Ashkenazi was all wrong because they weren't Hebrews.
As regards British Israel, I know all about it,as I understand it Benjamin D'Israeli was behind it, he even had genealogical trees crafted to prove that Queen Victoria was descended from David. And as I said the Ferrar Fenton bible was the British Israel bible.
Actually Godfrey Higgins does not fit into the category you describe, He was a 19th Century explorer, his book is actually two books, large and all fine print documenting so much of the Indus Valley and it's culture.
As regards the native tribe in Colorado, having the same DNA. The thing in the telling is not the major haplogroup, but the SNP.
In my project there is a man from Pradesh India, that has the same DNA as me, R-YP5585, but there is a man from Iran and two from Kuwait who have the same subclade of YP5585 as me, which is R-YP5582, however my subclade appears, skipping 3,000 miles and years from the Caspian sea to Yorkshire England, because the current subclade of R-YP5582 that defines me is R-YP5578.
The natives of North America and South America share the same major hapologoups like C, but they have different subclades, indicating different origins, North American Indians share DNA with North Asians, but South American peoples share DNA with South east Asians, and this fact has the anthropologists and archaelogists all in a tither, because it refutes the Siberianlandbrdige hypothesis.
Hell they have even identified Mediterranean or Mideast DNA in the Paracus Skulls of Peru, (they have elongated skulls which the establishment claims were elongated by binding, yet they have a completely different seam where the parts of the skull join together.
Anway I share YDNA with Ashkkenazi Jews, but not with pure Sephardim.
Oh and my mitochondrial DNA which came down to me via the female line is J2a1b3, which is also prominent among the Ashkenazim.
Daniel I am very apprehensive about even broaching the subject, because it is fraught with identity and political problems, but I've never been one to run away from a problem or controversy. And I am certainly not an antisemite, though I don't like what Bibi, the Likkud and the Orthodox right are doing to Israel.
It was once more liberal and welcoming than America, but all of that has disappeared.,and not just because of Oct 7th,it started before, when the extreme right took over the government, just as has done here in America.
For the most part, only the mother's line is measured.
Cohanim. My mother's family -- arguably priests. My dad's line is Levite. All Askenazi.
Koestler is bullshit. Some of my people were expelled from Spain -- wound up in the "pale of settlenent" then to Sweden and Wales.... 100% Ashkenazi. There are Jewish remains from the Roman period in England, France, etc.
Some Jews from Hungary, Austuria, were subjects of the Hapsburgs, who took over Spain. Lots of interaction.
DNA of Chochin (maybe Chinese or Indian), of Felasha (Ethiopian) Jews all pretty much the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews
Ferdinand, btw probably had Jewish genes. https://cryptojews.com/king-ferdinand-did-he-have-jewish-ancestors/. The principal,advisor of both Isabella and Ferdinand was a Marrano. According to the Fascists, Columbus was a Jew. During the 30's there was Nazi/Fascist scholarship that said he was writing in code. Lots of Italians have Jewish DNA. Check this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Aiello
Yes I know descent is matrilineal in Judaism.. I've always wondered why, but figure it is because we know for certain the mother, but not always the father, and when you live in a world were rapine is common.. well
Yep Jewish remains in Scotland and England, etc Sephardim, not Ashkenazim, Ashekenazim didn't reach that far., that early and old Ben D'Israeli, he too was Ashkenazim.
I know that Koestler is controversial, main reason is it is politics and identity.
Here is what I know, at the 3rd World Jewish Conference there was a proclamation that from henceforth all Jews were Ashkenazim.
Actually, as of late it has been Jews that have been claiming that Columbus was a Jew, and by coincidence he set sail for the new world on three days after the expulsion edict took effect.
I have a book and had a discussion with the author, that the Huguenots were Jews of Catalan who chose the new protestantism, instead of Catholicism.
. If that is true then Paul Revere, son of Apollonius Revoire was a Jew as his father was a Huguenot.
Also the Huguenots of Manakin Town. a 1,000 acre patent granted by King William to Huguenots. An independent community named Manakin Sabot,inside the city limits of Richmond.
One of my sixth great grandmothers was the daughter of a Huguenot
Some untold history here: Jewish Pirates of the Caribbean https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Pirates-Caribbean-Swashbuckling-Freedom/dp/0767919521/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1HDWR80LI4L8I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.CdaHoa9IhlS919VeEal5nUGAaZwhOHhf0XvTGalc7ijItJ8_7oyNK7WJmnm9EQAqIt9Hqxe1Zv8CQYbBaHQ1tDTY2yMkbce5Y6E-HKpEqto4sYbdqMKDJ9aUqhX3mINdm7mea74Xd-VEsuqO3tyc1WYyVPvzZYbMG6HE2mNvpYP3-Y2HPkswefBYfhsD1y2BJapjnusGXOpawCkVuVj_ncxGSuwG1jmWcrjoSK_CziA.KYvahiB13gm8ri_rBM5zrDFJyE7VFG0hMO12c5Q0tZE&dib_tag=se&keywords=jewish+pirates+of+the+caribbean&qid=1742176266&sprefix=jewish+pirates+of+the+caribbean%2Caps%2C367&sr=8-1
Very interesting you will enjoy it.
You know something Daniel. I was never encumbered or thought much about Identity politics until the election of Trump in 2016, then it seemed to take over everything.
I just wish there were no ideologies,and the the whole world were mongrels, and then there wouldn't be any of this bullslhit about my god is better than yours, my race is superior to yours, your culture is inferior to mine, women, queers and non believers should confirm or die,.
It sucks Daniel.