Good morning, This posting was an amazing wake-up for me. Here’s why. I’m a retired used bookseller and real estate developer. These two endeavors made me a reader and a researcher, but not a deep philosophical thinker. I sold many of Rand’s books, but I couldn’t read them. The plots were like something a screenwriter would develop, because that is what she did to learn her craft, but the prose sucked, so I just sold her books whenever I could buy them for pennies and then sell the crap for dollars. But, I’ve read a lot of non-fiction about thé Koch family. I know a lot about them, and their thievery. I never connected how the Rand libertarian philosophy slowly influenced today’s MAGA voters who went on to almost cause the overthrow of democracy by enjoying the reality performance rallies of Trump, the Rand reader creation. Your clear presentation scared the hell outa me. I’m just happy that Rand induced greed influenced Paul Ryan to exit DC after his electoral defeat so he could keep his campaign treasure chest and go home to his wealthy family a richer crook and become a GOP pundit. My face is still stinging from your “Snap out of it, you jerk” posting. Thanks.
I am also reeling from this article, because I too, couldn’t read her books. I’m an avid reader but struggled with them but Thom has painted an alarming backstory to truly “get it”.
In the 1980s I was surrounded by these rags to riches stockbroker punters using the stock market like their personal bank as they bought low pushed it high to grab profits then cared less where things went once they had their pockets full of cash. I knew it was blatant selfishness and using an institution like a type of parasite feeding off it then moving onto the next host to exploit. My sensitive self ran from it and hid in the Colorado mountains raising a child with my head in the sand ignoring news and reality because it was too painful to see such rampant exploitative behaviors all around me.
So after 22 years of a sorry excuse for a marriage I rejected it all and found myself on my own in the middle of the storm, called surviving life, as an ordinary nobody. I guess that slap of a deeper reality from reading Thom’s article has now explained what “woke” is...and I have been woken up to the backstory to understand the selfish motivation of these greedy exploiters who all loved Rand’s books.
What scares me the most is the daunting task ahead for us all. How in the hell are we going to help GenZs turn this around? I’m in my 60s now so what can I do as one person who is now woke. Or am I getting this woke thing wrong?
You know, L.M., I just read thru the Wikipedia on "cancel culture," and I think John Zelnicker is bullying you, here. What the heck in your post triggered him to fret about being torn down because he (?) didn't meet your(?) "not necessarily widely accepted" norms? I affirm you: no, you don't have "woke" wrong! He doesn't give a hint of what skin it is off his nose. Just putting you down, for why?
Excuse me, Mmerose, but I was not bullying L.M., although I did rant a bit about "woke" and cancel culture. That part of my comment did not apply to L.M.
Did you miss in my first sentence that I thought his awakening was great? I just have a problem with the misuse of the word "woke". Perhaps more careful reading would serve you well.
L.M. - With due respect, you have been awakened to some new realities, which is great, but please do not call yourself "woke". The word has taken on meanings that I don't think you want applied to yourself.
As I see it, the word has evolved in current usage to represent someone who spends far too much time looking for and calling out minor offenses against any group they think has been, in some sense, oppressed. Instead of educating and helping people to improve themselves, lots of "woke" folks seem to prefer tearing down those who don't meet their particular norms, which, to be clear, are not necessarily widely accepted, at least in the form they adhere to.
IMNSHO it's the "woke" people who are major instigators of "cancel culture".
I hope you are buying into the propaganda demonization of the metaphor "woke." innocently. "Minor offenses?" Like decades of redlining whole communities in terms of insurance, property values, grocery stores, school funding, water quality? Or killing for minor traffic stops vastly out of proportion to others? Arresting, imprisoning and convicting and - yes, executing - at stunningly higher rates compared to similar offenses? Oh, yeah, that's all "minor." "In some sense, oppressed?" Oh, I have read you right. What are "their particular norms...not necessarily widely accepted" that the "woke" are wrongly wanting to impose? Maybe not brutally beating a teenager and hanging him on a barb wire fence to freeze the rest of the way to death? I'll plead "woke" to opposing that "minor" offense. His murderers bleated "cancel culture," no doubt. His way of being wasn't "necessarily widely accepted," after all. I do indeed hope you are a well-intentioned victim of the propaganda campaign to de-legitimize the idea of "woke."
Mmerose - Please do not assume you know what I think about the horrors that have been visited on the working class and the poor (all colors) over the years. You have completely misunderstood where I'm coming from. I'm not a victim of anything.
I cut my political teeth in the civil rights movement in the 60's and was deeply involved in the antiwar movement in the 70's. I'm also quite aware of the brutality with which the Black community has been treated. In 1981 the last lynching in the US happened only a few miles from where I live.
But, when people who call themselves woke use that as a cudgel to beat on someone who, for example, says something in support of the Palestinians, that's a problem.
If your understanding of woke means being aware of and acknowledging the truth of all of those issues you justifiably rant about, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just choose not to use the word to refer to those who understand our brutal history and the sh*tshow this country has become.
Respect. I read the Guardian article. I THINK (?) you are interpreting the Israel-partisan donors as "calling themselves woke." Trying to be brief, looking at this segment:
He (Salaita) said he was troubled by the emails, saying that they are “part of a nationwide concerted effort by wealthy and well-organised groups to attack pro-Palestinian students and faculty and silence their speech.”
“This risks creating a Palestinian exception to the first amendment and to academic freedom,” he said, adding it is an area that “should be worrying to all scholars and teachers”.
That sounds to me like the "woke" statement. The offended donors arrogantly using their financial clout to muzzle University speech and policy seem the opposite. As do the cowardly University honchos. But the whole faraglio is pretty "woke" murky. As is everything about, well, the whole Middle East. Sometimes I ponder the juxtaposition of Europe "giving 'Israel' back" to the Jews, who had not held hegemony there in over 2000 years. (when did the Romans take over?) And wonder, huh, America was only stolen from the native population beginning about 400 years ago! I could get thrown off a Univ. faculty in record time. But not by anybody "woke."
I think the students started it and the donors decided to make it happen.
Israel was created as a result of the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which announced British support for a "national homeland for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
I read recently about Theodor Herzl, considered the "Father of Zionism", and his original vision for a Jewish homeland. He envisioned a utopian society in which both Jews and Muslims lived together in harmony.
Unfortunately, the original Jewish emigres to that area were not interested in sharing. As a result, the State of Israel, i.e. the government, has become an apartheid state and IMNSHO they have become what they despised. Very sad.
I say this as a Jew who supports the idea of a Jewish state like Herzl advocated, but I am very much opposed to Zionism as it is defined today. I imagine that if certain people see this comment I will be flamed for being a self-hating Jew. Oh well, nevertheless.
Yeah the rip-roaring 80's; the junk-bond kings and Savings-and-loan scandal (Neil Bush) and maybe Enron was into the 90's? (George Bush buddy.) Headwaters Forest https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-09-07-me-43068-story.html Hurwitz stole the retirement fund and then got bought/bribed by taxpayers out of killing the hostage: the forest. Crime pays! The religious prejudice that God loves the "successful" is a tradition in America far preceding Ayn Rand, though. I'm 69, and it's scary to think of actually speaking out in certain company. It would be nice if the "media" stopped calling FL Cubans "Latinos."
They got "Bolsheviked" by Castro Jan 1959. So they have bitter sentiments akin to Rand, along with Randian despite toward hungry-mouth peons coming in now who happen to speak Spanish.
You were smart not to read Rand’s book. At age 17, I did read the Fountainhead and was “inspired” by it. That didn’t last long. But some of it also inspired to see the overwhelming sexism against women in the Bible. I was also raised in an abusive home and was able to leave it. It certainly was NOT the best book I could have read. But this was just before women started to stand up for ourselves so I was ready for that.
That Rand made this child murderer a HERO that inspired her philosophy and writing - is gutting. Oh I was done with her long ago and abundantly alarmed by the Republicans latching onto her ideas. I will be sharing this widely. Thank you, Thom
I was once at an "investment conference" where a passage from Rand was read with acclaim. As a retired Public Defender, I was struck by how much the Rand character sounded like one of my bad-actor criminal clients whining about getting caught! Didn't speak up, of course. Wonder what would have happened?
Thanks for the reminder of Reagan's "Greed is good" roots, Thom. I am connecting that base, selfish, human inclination to Trump's popularity and even our recent midterm elections. I am connecting some dots here with your recent topic of the Fourth Turning--our roughly 80-year cycle of human meltdown & conflict. How is it, I am wondering, that roughly half of our country couldn't see Trump for who he was--a narcissistic, greedy, sociopath--back in 2016 when he first ran for President...but the other half of us did? Why after 6 years was this midterm election still such a squeaker when the choice was plainly between choosing what's best for our country vs. what's best for my (MAGA-hat) group? Is it that roughly half of Americans subconsciously identify with Ayn Rand, the materialistic, rich girl who had all her cookies taken away....leaving her in a total rage against all fellow humans (because she had no other connection?) like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum? I find the problem we have is not so much in our politics or economics but in our personal psychology as cleverly crafted by our universe. Everyone in the USA is free to construct their own view of reality--so what drives half of us to believe that the Earth is flat while the other half of us know for a fact that it is round? And why is it virtually impossible to reason with MAGA-hatters / Republicans? They seem to be on a different planet. Or in a different psychological realm. I think you put your finger on it, Thom, when you pointed out that Any Rand's real-life "hero" realized he didn't want just the $1500 ransom--the material goods--, he wanted to vent his anger....his hatred....and did so by murdering his 12-year-old hostage in the most horrible, cold-blooded way possible--repeated in recent years by the Saudi "bone-saw" prince. Isn't it a coincidence--or perhaps more than one--that "anger" and "hatred" is the fuel that Trump used to hook his followers to catapult him into the White House...eh? Isn't it also the key strategy of the Republicans for decades to "divide & conquer" or simply manipulate their followers to vote against their own best interest? Trump even used the straight-out "gaslighting" technique--and millions bought it ! Who does that technique speak to most strongly?
The weak-minded. The true-believing, unthinking followers. The gullible. And those who have a reservoir of suppressed anger and hatred....just waiting to be released by the permission & leadership of a "strong man." And here I come back to the Fourth Turning--when the suppressed, smoldering anger & hatred of roughly half our population found release and showed up in person--as on Jan. 6th. But this time around, it appears that our current Fourth Turning--at least here in the States and not including the heavy, horrible price that Ukraine is paying at the hands of Putin--may be resolved via the ballot box instead of the gun and a huge, devastating war. That would be quite novel...and spectacular, evolutionary progress...yeh?
You raise a lot of issues. I humbly offer a sort of baseline Hartmann-community response to the "how can.....half....not see T for what he is..." John Dean's book "Conservatives Without Conscience," saved my sanity while I was caregiving my severe authoritarian mother. Sadly, I am convinced there is a strong genetic predisposition in the DNA of American whites to be blind to what M. Scott Peck identifies as evil. (People of the Lie) It is hardly a secret that a lot of the original invaders from Europe were religious cultists: Puritans and witch mania and The Scarlet Letter ring a bell? My skin crawls at a glimpse of T, but that chromosome (I theorize) is inactive in a significant portion of American whites. Peck identifies it as a healthy self-preservation instinct in the presence of evil. But how, indeed, can you make the blind see, if they are congenitally blind?
Beautiful article. I've hated the Rand view from the beginning. I saw the corporate raiders under Reagan, destroy good community American business, then form monopolies, then travel to Argentina and elsewhere to do the same targeting their Social Security and privatizing all their resources, finally returning to a job starved America with the intention to do the same. I was horrified when W Bush imported the guy from Argentina who had destroyed their Social Security as I am that Rick Scott who stole millions from Medicare announced his plans for the same, was re-elected just now.
There are two levels of communication problem now: 1) How do we get any significant awareness of the issues you bring up (for instance) on the radar for any significant number of people, and 2) How, post Trump, do you get past the knee-jerk response, anything they don't want to hear is a lie?
Libertarianism is not civilized. It is that simple. Ayn Rand should have had psychological treatment for the trauma she experienced from the Bolsheviks.
Good morning, This posting was an amazing wake-up for me. Here’s why. I’m a retired used bookseller and real estate developer. These two endeavors made me a reader and a researcher, but not a deep philosophical thinker. I sold many of Rand’s books, but I couldn’t read them. The plots were like something a screenwriter would develop, because that is what she did to learn her craft, but the prose sucked, so I just sold her books whenever I could buy them for pennies and then sell the crap for dollars. But, I’ve read a lot of non-fiction about thé Koch family. I know a lot about them, and their thievery. I never connected how the Rand libertarian philosophy slowly influenced today’s MAGA voters who went on to almost cause the overthrow of democracy by enjoying the reality performance rallies of Trump, the Rand reader creation. Your clear presentation scared the hell outa me. I’m just happy that Rand induced greed influenced Paul Ryan to exit DC after his electoral defeat so he could keep his campaign treasure chest and go home to his wealthy family a richer crook and become a GOP pundit. My face is still stinging from your “Snap out of it, you jerk” posting. Thanks.
I am also reeling from this article, because I too, couldn’t read her books. I’m an avid reader but struggled with them but Thom has painted an alarming backstory to truly “get it”.
In the 1980s I was surrounded by these rags to riches stockbroker punters using the stock market like their personal bank as they bought low pushed it high to grab profits then cared less where things went once they had their pockets full of cash. I knew it was blatant selfishness and using an institution like a type of parasite feeding off it then moving onto the next host to exploit. My sensitive self ran from it and hid in the Colorado mountains raising a child with my head in the sand ignoring news and reality because it was too painful to see such rampant exploitative behaviors all around me.
So after 22 years of a sorry excuse for a marriage I rejected it all and found myself on my own in the middle of the storm, called surviving life, as an ordinary nobody. I guess that slap of a deeper reality from reading Thom’s article has now explained what “woke” is...and I have been woken up to the backstory to understand the selfish motivation of these greedy exploiters who all loved Rand’s books.
What scares me the most is the daunting task ahead for us all. How in the hell are we going to help GenZs turn this around? I’m in my 60s now so what can I do as one person who is now woke. Or am I getting this woke thing wrong?
You know, L.M., I just read thru the Wikipedia on "cancel culture," and I think John Zelnicker is bullying you, here. What the heck in your post triggered him to fret about being torn down because he (?) didn't meet your(?) "not necessarily widely accepted" norms? I affirm you: no, you don't have "woke" wrong! He doesn't give a hint of what skin it is off his nose. Just putting you down, for why?
It’s ok I appreciate both of your comments and respect your opinions and thank you for them
Excuse me, Mmerose, but I was not bullying L.M., although I did rant a bit about "woke" and cancel culture. That part of my comment did not apply to L.M.
Did you miss in my first sentence that I thought his awakening was great? I just have a problem with the misuse of the word "woke". Perhaps more careful reading would serve you well.
L.M. - With due respect, you have been awakened to some new realities, which is great, but please do not call yourself "woke". The word has taken on meanings that I don't think you want applied to yourself.
As I see it, the word has evolved in current usage to represent someone who spends far too much time looking for and calling out minor offenses against any group they think has been, in some sense, oppressed. Instead of educating and helping people to improve themselves, lots of "woke" folks seem to prefer tearing down those who don't meet their particular norms, which, to be clear, are not necessarily widely accepted, at least in the form they adhere to.
IMNSHO it's the "woke" people who are major instigators of "cancel culture".
I hope you are buying into the propaganda demonization of the metaphor "woke." innocently. "Minor offenses?" Like decades of redlining whole communities in terms of insurance, property values, grocery stores, school funding, water quality? Or killing for minor traffic stops vastly out of proportion to others? Arresting, imprisoning and convicting and - yes, executing - at stunningly higher rates compared to similar offenses? Oh, yeah, that's all "minor." "In some sense, oppressed?" Oh, I have read you right. What are "their particular norms...not necessarily widely accepted" that the "woke" are wrongly wanting to impose? Maybe not brutally beating a teenager and hanging him on a barb wire fence to freeze the rest of the way to death? I'll plead "woke" to opposing that "minor" offense. His murderers bleated "cancel culture," no doubt. His way of being wasn't "necessarily widely accepted," after all. I do indeed hope you are a well-intentioned victim of the propaganda campaign to de-legitimize the idea of "woke."
Mmerose - Please do not assume you know what I think about the horrors that have been visited on the working class and the poor (all colors) over the years. You have completely misunderstood where I'm coming from. I'm not a victim of anything.
I cut my political teeth in the civil rights movement in the 60's and was deeply involved in the antiwar movement in the 70's. I'm also quite aware of the brutality with which the Black community has been treated. In 1981 the last lynching in the US happened only a few miles from where I live.
https://www.al.com/news/2018/04/last_lynching_in_america_shock.html
But, when people who call themselves woke use that as a cudgel to beat on someone who, for example, says something in support of the Palestinians, that's a problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/sep/09/professor-israel-criticism-twitter-university-illinois
If your understanding of woke means being aware of and acknowledging the truth of all of those issues you justifiably rant about, that's fine. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just choose not to use the word to refer to those who understand our brutal history and the sh*tshow this country has become.
Respect. I read the Guardian article. I THINK (?) you are interpreting the Israel-partisan donors as "calling themselves woke." Trying to be brief, looking at this segment:
He (Salaita) said he was troubled by the emails, saying that they are “part of a nationwide concerted effort by wealthy and well-organised groups to attack pro-Palestinian students and faculty and silence their speech.”
“This risks creating a Palestinian exception to the first amendment and to academic freedom,” he said, adding it is an area that “should be worrying to all scholars and teachers”.
That sounds to me like the "woke" statement. The offended donors arrogantly using their financial clout to muzzle University speech and policy seem the opposite. As do the cowardly University honchos. But the whole faraglio is pretty "woke" murky. As is everything about, well, the whole Middle East. Sometimes I ponder the juxtaposition of Europe "giving 'Israel' back" to the Jews, who had not held hegemony there in over 2000 years. (when did the Romans take over?) And wonder, huh, America was only stolen from the native population beginning about 400 years ago! I could get thrown off a Univ. faculty in record time. But not by anybody "woke."
Thank you.
I think the students started it and the donors decided to make it happen.
Israel was created as a result of the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which announced British support for a "national homeland for the Jewish people" in Palestine.
I read recently about Theodor Herzl, considered the "Father of Zionism", and his original vision for a Jewish homeland. He envisioned a utopian society in which both Jews and Muslims lived together in harmony.
Unfortunately, the original Jewish emigres to that area were not interested in sharing. As a result, the State of Israel, i.e. the government, has become an apartheid state and IMNSHO they have become what they despised. Very sad.
I say this as a Jew who supports the idea of a Jewish state like Herzl advocated, but I am very much opposed to Zionism as it is defined today. I imagine that if certain people see this comment I will be flamed for being a self-hating Jew. Oh well, nevertheless.
Stay safe, Mmerose.
Yeah the rip-roaring 80's; the junk-bond kings and Savings-and-loan scandal (Neil Bush) and maybe Enron was into the 90's? (George Bush buddy.) Headwaters Forest https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-09-07-me-43068-story.html Hurwitz stole the retirement fund and then got bought/bribed by taxpayers out of killing the hostage: the forest. Crime pays! The religious prejudice that God loves the "successful" is a tradition in America far preceding Ayn Rand, though. I'm 69, and it's scary to think of actually speaking out in certain company. It would be nice if the "media" stopped calling FL Cubans "Latinos."
They got "Bolsheviked" by Castro Jan 1959. So they have bitter sentiments akin to Rand, along with Randian despite toward hungry-mouth peons coming in now who happen to speak Spanish.
You were smart not to read Rand’s book. At age 17, I did read the Fountainhead and was “inspired” by it. That didn’t last long. But some of it also inspired to see the overwhelming sexism against women in the Bible. I was also raised in an abusive home and was able to leave it. It certainly was NOT the best book I could have read. But this was just before women started to stand up for ourselves so I was ready for that.
That Rand made this child murderer a HERO that inspired her philosophy and writing - is gutting. Oh I was done with her long ago and abundantly alarmed by the Republicans latching onto her ideas. I will be sharing this widely. Thank you, Thom
I was once at an "investment conference" where a passage from Rand was read with acclaim. As a retired Public Defender, I was struck by how much the Rand character sounded like one of my bad-actor criminal clients whining about getting caught! Didn't speak up, of course. Wonder what would have happened?
Rude awakenings can be...well...a bit rude, but sometimes very worthwhile. ;-)
Now our task is to try to spread this knowledge to others.
Just what I was thinking as I read this comment !
Thank you
Thanks for the reminder of Reagan's "Greed is good" roots, Thom. I am connecting that base, selfish, human inclination to Trump's popularity and even our recent midterm elections. I am connecting some dots here with your recent topic of the Fourth Turning--our roughly 80-year cycle of human meltdown & conflict. How is it, I am wondering, that roughly half of our country couldn't see Trump for who he was--a narcissistic, greedy, sociopath--back in 2016 when he first ran for President...but the other half of us did? Why after 6 years was this midterm election still such a squeaker when the choice was plainly between choosing what's best for our country vs. what's best for my (MAGA-hat) group? Is it that roughly half of Americans subconsciously identify with Ayn Rand, the materialistic, rich girl who had all her cookies taken away....leaving her in a total rage against all fellow humans (because she had no other connection?) like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum? I find the problem we have is not so much in our politics or economics but in our personal psychology as cleverly crafted by our universe. Everyone in the USA is free to construct their own view of reality--so what drives half of us to believe that the Earth is flat while the other half of us know for a fact that it is round? And why is it virtually impossible to reason with MAGA-hatters / Republicans? They seem to be on a different planet. Or in a different psychological realm. I think you put your finger on it, Thom, when you pointed out that Any Rand's real-life "hero" realized he didn't want just the $1500 ransom--the material goods--, he wanted to vent his anger....his hatred....and did so by murdering his 12-year-old hostage in the most horrible, cold-blooded way possible--repeated in recent years by the Saudi "bone-saw" prince. Isn't it a coincidence--or perhaps more than one--that "anger" and "hatred" is the fuel that Trump used to hook his followers to catapult him into the White House...eh? Isn't it also the key strategy of the Republicans for decades to "divide & conquer" or simply manipulate their followers to vote against their own best interest? Trump even used the straight-out "gaslighting" technique--and millions bought it ! Who does that technique speak to most strongly?
The weak-minded. The true-believing, unthinking followers. The gullible. And those who have a reservoir of suppressed anger and hatred....just waiting to be released by the permission & leadership of a "strong man." And here I come back to the Fourth Turning--when the suppressed, smoldering anger & hatred of roughly half our population found release and showed up in person--as on Jan. 6th. But this time around, it appears that our current Fourth Turning--at least here in the States and not including the heavy, horrible price that Ukraine is paying at the hands of Putin--may be resolved via the ballot box instead of the gun and a huge, devastating war. That would be quite novel...and spectacular, evolutionary progress...yeh?
You raise a lot of issues. I humbly offer a sort of baseline Hartmann-community response to the "how can.....half....not see T for what he is..." John Dean's book "Conservatives Without Conscience," saved my sanity while I was caregiving my severe authoritarian mother. Sadly, I am convinced there is a strong genetic predisposition in the DNA of American whites to be blind to what M. Scott Peck identifies as evil. (People of the Lie) It is hardly a secret that a lot of the original invaders from Europe were religious cultists: Puritans and witch mania and The Scarlet Letter ring a bell? My skin crawls at a glimpse of T, but that chromosome (I theorize) is inactive in a significant portion of American whites. Peck identifies it as a healthy self-preservation instinct in the presence of evil. But how, indeed, can you make the blind see, if they are congenitally blind?
Beautiful article. I've hated the Rand view from the beginning. I saw the corporate raiders under Reagan, destroy good community American business, then form monopolies, then travel to Argentina and elsewhere to do the same targeting their Social Security and privatizing all their resources, finally returning to a job starved America with the intention to do the same. I was horrified when W Bush imported the guy from Argentina who had destroyed their Social Security as I am that Rick Scott who stole millions from Medicare announced his plans for the same, was re-elected just now.
There are two levels of communication problem now: 1) How do we get any significant awareness of the issues you bring up (for instance) on the radar for any significant number of people, and 2) How, post Trump, do you get past the knee-jerk response, anything they don't want to hear is a lie?
Libertarianism is not civilized. It is that simple. Ayn Rand should have had psychological treatment for the trauma she experienced from the Bolsheviks.
Thank you for clarifying the whole history and appeal of Ayn Rand's philosophy.
Good start. Let's get at it. Thanks