Another little know fact about Thomas Paine. The tidewater aristocrats of Virginia were not enthusiastic about the revolution. After all England bought their tobacco and they were wealthy and could afford the china, silverware, fabric and furniture that the EIC sold, taxes and all.
However many of them were great grandsons of Royalists who had fled to Virginia during the English civil war, and still had cousins in London and surrounding counties, and being wealthy it was an upper class oblige to make at least one trip to London, the richer the more trips, but in London they were treated as country bumpkins and their accent ridiculed;
The Virginia accent was a modified version of the Surrey accent, which by the time of the revolution had become defunct, by royal edict.
The revolution provided the would be neo nobility, an opportunity to become the new nobility in the new world, but the common man of Virginia and the Carolinas had no desire to replace one set of overlords (the British) with a home grown set, so the would be nobility set about changing their mind.
First they created a Committee for Public Safety (so successful the French and Russian revoltuionaries, adopted the idea and the Title) to watch over and punish loyalists, then they imported tracts by Thomas Paine and others, that were printed by Ben Franklin and Rittenhouse in Philadelphia, which extolled the rights of man.
The law of unseen consequences, Thomas Paines's propaganda pamphlets were so successful, that they thwarted the ambitions of the tidewater aristocrats to become the neo nobility, however by going "underground" so to speak, they achieved more, instead of being visible nobility, they became the invisible nobility,now hiding behind gated communities,on private islands, on mountain tops, with their own airfields and airplanes, but none of the exposure if they were barons, earls, dukes and lords..
Yet the still got their English parliament, House of Lords the senate, House of Commons, Representatives and even terms of office show the deference Six years for House of Lords, 2 years for Representatives. And as readers know Alexander Hamilton and the Federalists wanted a permanent presidency, because at root there was a new elite, the founding fathers, and they did not trust the rabble of democracy.
I;ve read that Thomas Jefferson was turned against democracy when he attended a church meeting in Danville, VA.
It has taken 250 years but the Federalists have apparently won the day, and alas we have but a little over 2 years to enjoy the freedoms that were given us, by New England smugglers and Tidewater aristocrats.
I was struck by the similarity of Paine's summation of how to build a strong democracy:
"“When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of its happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its government.”
This is the kind of aspiration that attracted me to Victor Hugo's book Les Miserables:
"So long as there shall exist, by reason of law and custom, a social condemnation which, in the face of civilisation, artifically creates hells on earth, and complicates a destiny that is divine, with human fatality; so long as the three problems of the age -- the degradation of the man by poverty, the ruin of woman by starvation, and the dwarfing of childhood by physical and spiritual night -- are not solved; so long as, in certain regions, social asphyxia shall be possible; in other words, and from a yet more extended point of view, so long as ignorance and misery remain on earth, books like this cannot be useless."
Hugo wrote that in 1862; Paine's book was from the late 1790's. Stabilizer says that such aspirations have been recorded in writings as far back as king Cyrus. Since we're still looking for Utopia, I'd have to conclude that human society has proved useless in accomplishing such aspirations. I still hold out hope though -- Jesus preached of a kingdom that would turn things as we know them on their head, completely upside down. Sounds to me like what we need.
It's so important to learn our history. Peace and prosperity are not NEW goals, you can read of a push to make an inclusive society where everyone lives well in writing from the time of Cyrus.
The problem I'm seeing is there are so many fooled Americans.
I have a simple solution to everything. Implement a progressive federal sales tax, and to understand, consider 1% sales tax on monthly sales less than a million dollars, and go right up to 100% for companies selling $200 million a month. It would give the small businesses an advantage and naturally limit the size of corporations.
Interesting concept, I like it. The problem being, with our current form of government, the corporations would insist their paid for lackeys in congress never pass such legislations.
Good point. I suspect the initial draft of the bill would be lost in the avalanche of Rubles.
Having said that, I'll push the concept. My wife and I have seen a number of similar proposals be taken up. For example, she started pointing out that Anti-Democracy Party Worshippers view the right to take assault weapons into schools and explode children for entertainment is NOT the intent of the second amendment, which actually has no intent because it only applies to members of well regulated state militias, which no longer exist. We are seeing that a lot now. I started pushing a call to simply require all decisions from the corrupt SCOTUS be unanimous - why? - I read a few hundred unanimous decisions from last year and agreed with all of them, while I rarely agree with anything else. Even Roe v Wade was terrible, instead of protecting women's rights, it gave individual states the absolute right to regulate women's freedom, but only within the limits defined by 6 Kremlin Assets.
Look at all the stuff Thom pushes. I can name a dozen ideas he has pushed that maybe didn't change the world, but are now bumper stickers.
To fix congress, all we need to do is replace 51% of the Democratic Party criminals with Progressives who work for the goals of America and Americans. Then we can reverse Vallejo, Belotti, and Citizens United and make it illegal again to take bribes from enemies of freedom and the USA. Sounds impossible, given that in 2015 98% of the Dems were for sale to ANY bidder, but we probably will achieve that in TWO WEEKS.
In other words, we are winning, and the reason those of us who care find ourselves all alone on the field of the battle for democracy is simply that we are way ahead of the main army.
Meanwhile, thank you for caring and thank you for donating your precious time and mind and sweat at what is a real physical risk these days. My wife and I had to remove our real names from all posts because there are so many hate focused Americans who will not realize the problem isn't who they hate, it's THAT they hate. Thanks.
I so agree with you. I really like the concept of 100% agreement to pass SCOTUS. I have said for years that the second amendment only pertains to the state militia but I get booed loudly
Yes, well only an illiterate and poorly educated person could misinterpret a ONE SENTENCE AMENDMENT. By the second grade I knew that you can't simply ignore the first four words.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It is understandable that history-challenged people would fail to understand the last part. At the time, many cities had gun regulations, no guns in town. Many militias also required soldiers to either bring their own rifle or replace their rifle if it was lost. Many soldiers were farmers, and went home for planting and harvest. "Bear arms" specifically meant "march to war". Nobody "bears arms" to go shoot a rabbit. The last part, in modern English, simply means "Soldier can march through any town carrying their rifles without local sheriffs impounding their rifles".
It's like their support of all the other ridiculous things they support. They aren't REALLY that stupid, they have low self esteem. For example, why would I hate someone just because they have brown skin? It only makes sense if I believe that they are so superior to me that I must have an unfair advantage to compete. I've worked in 150 countries, with all sorts of people working for me, with me, or as my boss, and I've never seen any hint that skin tone affects intelligence. None, there are just as many dummies and geniuses in Botswana as Boston, the only major difference being people in Botswana eat better food.
Thom, this was really interesting to know about Thomas Paine, he is one of my favorite people from the past. Thom, this man was a truly way ahead of his time man. He also had a sincere heart for the people who other’s would want to forget. Saints and Sinners are all welcome. I am so glad to know about this and will do my own deep dive into the book too. Thom, our America would be so much better for all people if we followed all the great things Thomas knew we could be. Way ahead of his time Thom, and so are you too. Thank you for this great writing on Mr. Paine.
I wish you would stop this over-the-top lambasting of John Adams. And worship of Jefferson the Democrat must cease. He was a slaveholding hypocrite. Ask Jane Fonda how nice a guy Tom Hayden was, as well.
It seems to me that this article is promoting the ideas not the man. Just because was a slave holder like most landed men of the time doesn't negate his political ideas.
All the founding fathers were hypocrites, in fact practically everyone is, one way or another, even you..it is the human way. Their wealth and social status depended on the labor of slaves, there was no alternative, yet they knew that slavery was wrong and sowed the seeds for its abolishment. Without the likes of Jefferson or other founding "fathers" this country would have remained part of the British Empire, and history, for better or worse would be much different, and you Frank, nor I would be in existence, as our very existence was dependent upon billions, trillions of butterfly wings which led to a nano nano second in time in which a sperm carrying your DNA met an ovum carrying your DNA/
John Adams was an autocrat, he was, like Trump, Thin skinned, so he used his power to pass the
Alien and Sedition act, which he thin used to imprison anyone who had the temerity to criticize him, even his bald pate and his countenance.
Exactly, there is, at present, an over arching and over reaching, self defeating mood of political correctness, and it is the bane of democracy, Right or wrong it is alienating a lot of people and driving them into the arms of the fascists.
Thomas Jefferson was not an 18th Century Jesus, he owned a large plantation, which was the source of his ability to promote his ideas and sustain himself. There was no industrial revolution, no mechanization and yes he could have freed his slaves and hired them back at market wages,but that would have set the other tidewater aristocrats against him, and the whole idea of a revolution.
The tidewater aristocrats, the planters, were not in favor of the revolution, just the opposite, unlike the New England merchants, their crops of tobacco brought in enough revenue for them to live a standard of living, which their cousins in London and surrounding counties, could only envy.
While the motivations of the New Englanders were financiall, the motivations of the tidewater aristocrats was social, and if they even sniffed that Thomas Jefferson and other founders were of an eqalitarian bent, they would have given the middle finger to the revolution.
The fascist right is not the only faction with a problem, apparently the democratic left has one just as bad, however the fascist right has big bucks behind them, which the democratic left does not, and the fascist right are not at all idealistic, they are realistic and know what they want, total power, whereas the democratic left is too friggin idealistic for its own good, and totally, in their self righteousness, constantly shooting themselves i the foot.. Just like Terry McAuliffe did in the Governors race in Virginia.
I am not a Democrat, I am a progressive that votes Democratic because the alternative is unfathomable,, but I am chagrined by watching the left commit suicide, with their stupid self righteousness
Another little know fact about Thomas Paine. The tidewater aristocrats of Virginia were not enthusiastic about the revolution. After all England bought their tobacco and they were wealthy and could afford the china, silverware, fabric and furniture that the EIC sold, taxes and all.
However many of them were great grandsons of Royalists who had fled to Virginia during the English civil war, and still had cousins in London and surrounding counties, and being wealthy it was an upper class oblige to make at least one trip to London, the richer the more trips, but in London they were treated as country bumpkins and their accent ridiculed;
The Virginia accent was a modified version of the Surrey accent, which by the time of the revolution had become defunct, by royal edict.
The revolution provided the would be neo nobility, an opportunity to become the new nobility in the new world, but the common man of Virginia and the Carolinas had no desire to replace one set of overlords (the British) with a home grown set, so the would be nobility set about changing their mind.
First they created a Committee for Public Safety (so successful the French and Russian revoltuionaries, adopted the idea and the Title) to watch over and punish loyalists, then they imported tracts by Thomas Paine and others, that were printed by Ben Franklin and Rittenhouse in Philadelphia, which extolled the rights of man.
The law of unseen consequences, Thomas Paines's propaganda pamphlets were so successful, that they thwarted the ambitions of the tidewater aristocrats to become the neo nobility, however by going "underground" so to speak, they achieved more, instead of being visible nobility, they became the invisible nobility,now hiding behind gated communities,on private islands, on mountain tops, with their own airfields and airplanes, but none of the exposure if they were barons, earls, dukes and lords..
Yet the still got their English parliament, House of Lords the senate, House of Commons, Representatives and even terms of office show the deference Six years for House of Lords, 2 years for Representatives. And as readers know Alexander Hamilton and the Federalists wanted a permanent presidency, because at root there was a new elite, the founding fathers, and they did not trust the rabble of democracy.
I;ve read that Thomas Jefferson was turned against democracy when he attended a church meeting in Danville, VA.
It has taken 250 years but the Federalists have apparently won the day, and alas we have but a little over 2 years to enjoy the freedoms that were given us, by New England smugglers and Tidewater aristocrats.
I was struck by the similarity of Paine's summation of how to build a strong democracy:
"“When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of its happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its government.”
This is the kind of aspiration that attracted me to Victor Hugo's book Les Miserables:
"So long as there shall exist, by reason of law and custom, a social condemnation which, in the face of civilisation, artifically creates hells on earth, and complicates a destiny that is divine, with human fatality; so long as the three problems of the age -- the degradation of the man by poverty, the ruin of woman by starvation, and the dwarfing of childhood by physical and spiritual night -- are not solved; so long as, in certain regions, social asphyxia shall be possible; in other words, and from a yet more extended point of view, so long as ignorance and misery remain on earth, books like this cannot be useless."
Hugo wrote that in 1862; Paine's book was from the late 1790's. Stabilizer says that such aspirations have been recorded in writings as far back as king Cyrus. Since we're still looking for Utopia, I'd have to conclude that human society has proved useless in accomplishing such aspirations. I still hold out hope though -- Jesus preached of a kingdom that would turn things as we know them on their head, completely upside down. Sounds to me like what we need.
It's so important to learn our history. Peace and prosperity are not NEW goals, you can read of a push to make an inclusive society where everyone lives well in writing from the time of Cyrus.
The problem I'm seeing is there are so many fooled Americans.
I have a simple solution to everything. Implement a progressive federal sales tax, and to understand, consider 1% sales tax on monthly sales less than a million dollars, and go right up to 100% for companies selling $200 million a month. It would give the small businesses an advantage and naturally limit the size of corporations.
Interesting concept, I like it. The problem being, with our current form of government, the corporations would insist their paid for lackeys in congress never pass such legislations.
Good point. I suspect the initial draft of the bill would be lost in the avalanche of Rubles.
Having said that, I'll push the concept. My wife and I have seen a number of similar proposals be taken up. For example, she started pointing out that Anti-Democracy Party Worshippers view the right to take assault weapons into schools and explode children for entertainment is NOT the intent of the second amendment, which actually has no intent because it only applies to members of well regulated state militias, which no longer exist. We are seeing that a lot now. I started pushing a call to simply require all decisions from the corrupt SCOTUS be unanimous - why? - I read a few hundred unanimous decisions from last year and agreed with all of them, while I rarely agree with anything else. Even Roe v Wade was terrible, instead of protecting women's rights, it gave individual states the absolute right to regulate women's freedom, but only within the limits defined by 6 Kremlin Assets.
Look at all the stuff Thom pushes. I can name a dozen ideas he has pushed that maybe didn't change the world, but are now bumper stickers.
To fix congress, all we need to do is replace 51% of the Democratic Party criminals with Progressives who work for the goals of America and Americans. Then we can reverse Vallejo, Belotti, and Citizens United and make it illegal again to take bribes from enemies of freedom and the USA. Sounds impossible, given that in 2015 98% of the Dems were for sale to ANY bidder, but we probably will achieve that in TWO WEEKS.
In other words, we are winning, and the reason those of us who care find ourselves all alone on the field of the battle for democracy is simply that we are way ahead of the main army.
Meanwhile, thank you for caring and thank you for donating your precious time and mind and sweat at what is a real physical risk these days. My wife and I had to remove our real names from all posts because there are so many hate focused Americans who will not realize the problem isn't who they hate, it's THAT they hate. Thanks.
I so agree with you. I really like the concept of 100% agreement to pass SCOTUS. I have said for years that the second amendment only pertains to the state militia but I get booed loudly
Yes, well only an illiterate and poorly educated person could misinterpret a ONE SENTENCE AMENDMENT. By the second grade I knew that you can't simply ignore the first four words.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It is understandable that history-challenged people would fail to understand the last part. At the time, many cities had gun regulations, no guns in town. Many militias also required soldiers to either bring their own rifle or replace their rifle if it was lost. Many soldiers were farmers, and went home for planting and harvest. "Bear arms" specifically meant "march to war". Nobody "bears arms" to go shoot a rabbit. The last part, in modern English, simply means "Soldier can march through any town carrying their rifles without local sheriffs impounding their rifles".
It's like their support of all the other ridiculous things they support. They aren't REALLY that stupid, they have low self esteem. For example, why would I hate someone just because they have brown skin? It only makes sense if I believe that they are so superior to me that I must have an unfair advantage to compete. I've worked in 150 countries, with all sorts of people working for me, with me, or as my boss, and I've never seen any hint that skin tone affects intelligence. None, there are just as many dummies and geniuses in Botswana as Boston, the only major difference being people in Botswana eat better food.
Thom, this was really interesting to know about Thomas Paine, he is one of my favorite people from the past. Thom, this man was a truly way ahead of his time man. He also had a sincere heart for the people who other’s would want to forget. Saints and Sinners are all welcome. I am so glad to know about this and will do my own deep dive into the book too. Thom, our America would be so much better for all people if we followed all the great things Thomas knew we could be. Way ahead of his time Thom, and so are you too. Thank you for this great writing on Mr. Paine.
I wish you would stop this over-the-top lambasting of John Adams. And worship of Jefferson the Democrat must cease. He was a slaveholding hypocrite. Ask Jane Fonda how nice a guy Tom Hayden was, as well.
It seems to me that this article is promoting the ideas not the man. Just because was a slave holder like most landed men of the time doesn't negate his political ideas.
All the founding fathers were hypocrites, in fact practically everyone is, one way or another, even you..it is the human way. Their wealth and social status depended on the labor of slaves, there was no alternative, yet they knew that slavery was wrong and sowed the seeds for its abolishment. Without the likes of Jefferson or other founding "fathers" this country would have remained part of the British Empire, and history, for better or worse would be much different, and you Frank, nor I would be in existence, as our very existence was dependent upon billions, trillions of butterfly wings which led to a nano nano second in time in which a sperm carrying your DNA met an ovum carrying your DNA/
John Adams was an autocrat, he was, like Trump, Thin skinned, so he used his power to pass the
Alien and Sedition act, which he thin used to imprison anyone who had the temerity to criticize him, even his bald pate and his countenance.
Good point William
Humbly disagree with some of your points.
That's fine. I generally invoke cognitive dissonance.
Exactly, there is, at present, an over arching and over reaching, self defeating mood of political correctness, and it is the bane of democracy, Right or wrong it is alienating a lot of people and driving them into the arms of the fascists.
Thomas Jefferson was not an 18th Century Jesus, he owned a large plantation, which was the source of his ability to promote his ideas and sustain himself. There was no industrial revolution, no mechanization and yes he could have freed his slaves and hired them back at market wages,but that would have set the other tidewater aristocrats against him, and the whole idea of a revolution.
The tidewater aristocrats, the planters, were not in favor of the revolution, just the opposite, unlike the New England merchants, their crops of tobacco brought in enough revenue for them to live a standard of living, which their cousins in London and surrounding counties, could only envy.
While the motivations of the New Englanders were financiall, the motivations of the tidewater aristocrats was social, and if they even sniffed that Thomas Jefferson and other founders were of an eqalitarian bent, they would have given the middle finger to the revolution.
The fascist right is not the only faction with a problem, apparently the democratic left has one just as bad, however the fascist right has big bucks behind them, which the democratic left does not, and the fascist right are not at all idealistic, they are realistic and know what they want, total power, whereas the democratic left is too friggin idealistic for its own good, and totally, in their self righteousness, constantly shooting themselves i the foot.. Just like Terry McAuliffe did in the Governors race in Virginia.
I am not a Democrat, I am a progressive that votes Democratic because the alternative is unfathomable,, but I am chagrined by watching the left commit suicide, with their stupid self righteousness
Thank you for this enlightening and informative article. I am certainly going to read the book.