Red states are mooching off the Blue states, using that essentially stolen tax money to reinvent the old Confederacy, “own the libs,” and wage “war on woke...”
If one reads Quora, one notices that there are a lot of Brits who worship the Royals and nobility as gods. They obviously pine for the days that they were serfs, and did not have to make any decisions other that what porridge or gruel they would eat for Dinner. These are the same twits, that constitute the fascist base.
It is the same in the red states. I am descended from plow boys and share croppers, who themselves once owned slaves, but not at the time the Citadel cadets fired on Ft Sumter .
They happily marched off to die in service to their betters, leaving a wife and children behind shortly to become widows and orphans.. Also a couple of cousins who were slain, one was captured and died of smallpox at Camp Douglas, Chicago. Some bought into the states "rats" b.s., others were motivated by racism.
The red states haven't changed at all, in fact they have become worse, being infected with religious extremism, LGBT phobia, and the misogyny of male superiority and rule (meaning that they really don't believe they are superior.
A truly superior person does not need any artifices to bolster their ego, id and identity.
Thom is on the money again. I made this argument to a red state right-wing supporter when savaging the SALT cap on Federal tax return deductions. I explained that it was uncapped before to correct for the fact that blue states pay more in Federal taxes, while getting less Federal funding and comparatively providing more services in their states than red states.
I included links to support and made the point that Republicans raised Federal taxes on middle class families in blue states to give breaks to wealthy people. Needless to say, no amount of facts or reason swayed him. Honestly, I believe that rolling back the post-Clinton wealthy tax breaks and removing the SALT cap could help accomplish some correction to this dynamic.
Red states have weak, junk economies, no unions, low wages, no freedoms & massive levels of corruption. Women are property, brown & black people are 3rd class citizens, while billionaires & corporations control everything and get obscenely rich off the backs of their wage slaves.
Failed red states are subsidized by successful blue states. It's time for this red state scam to end.
Here’s a question/comment. I’d been thinking about the Red State Moochers a month or so ago … wondering if there are ways to make those states beef up their contributions to their own damn welfare. After reading yesterday’s column I remembered the debate “revenue sharing” v “block grants.” Under revenue sharing policy the states had to use the federal funds for the purposes specified by the feds: clean water $$ must be spent on clean water. But after Reagan the Red states began chipping away at funds under revenue sharing … and transferred the funds to block grants. Under block grants the states can do whatever they want with federal $. So a handy solution to this mooching would put more federal funding into revenue sharing programs & out of block grants. When I figure out what this involves I’ll let you know.
Failed right-wing policies of free trade, the trickle down, immigration, unfunded wars, capitalist healthcare, interest on the national debt, wasted military spending, corporate welfare, bank bailouts, offshore banking... have cost the left, over a 100 trillion dollars the last 60 years in my opinion. Now that America is in debt, from Republican right wing obstructionism, the right wants a dictatorship so they can protect all that they have stolen. Anyone who earns under $500,000 a year who votes Republican, needs their head examined. The Southern States would like to ship all of their mentally ill, their criminals, their lazy and unintelligent to the northern states to cripple the northern states. If the whole nation of America becomes a dictatorship, the right will build internment camps where they just magically disappear. But they are anti-abortion, because they need more healthy slaves that are obedient of all races. And the right will still let in more immigrants if they need more labor, replacing the fat white man who is lazy and wants $20 an hour. The GOP voters will be lucky if they don't die from a heat stroke or starvation. In their quest to make the left be tortured, they will learn what poverty is themselves.
And the PBS Newshour reported that TX gets $3 billion plus, for internet everywhere. BTW, the Confederacy has never left; probably stronger than ever. They take the confederate flag out of play but replace it with KKK flags- really! Check out the KKK flags online; GA? Klan flag.
I do understand that the funds are sent to state governments who are misusing them, but I do not advocate punishing those who are poor or uneducated as I said. This just furthers division and suffering. I prefer to connect with people on the level that if we do not change the political system none of this really matters because we will all be impoverished, starving, migrating due to climate change or nuked due to our imperialism and perpetual wars which are promoted by selective grievers like Thom Hartmann.
Yes indeed Clarence Thomas was the tie-breaking vote on Citizens United, and Clarence Thomas was brought to us by your hero Joe Biden who publicly humiliated a black woman Anita Hill and denied her a proper hearing. The harm that Biden himself has done to black families with his "Tough on Crime" nonsense and continued militarism and plan to add 100,000 police officers as likely had more negative impact on these communities than Republican policies. In addition, Democratic mayors around the country continue to maintain segregation in major cities by placating donors and buckling to political pressure (see: Rahm Emanuel and Lori Lightfoot in Chicago). Finally, while I do agree that the ideology in red states is sick and twisted, I do not agree with punishing the poor folks who live there by withholding funding as programs that benefit those who need it would also be affected. Your attitude in putting down poor and less educated Americans shows how low you've gone in your quest to satisfy your listeners' schadenfreude.
It's telling how Florida experienced an estimated 258 Billion in damages from Hurricane Ian but the Florida State Budget of 120 billion hasn't increased, when controlling for inflation. Someone is getting short changed and it's not the super wealthy as Florida has a regressive income tax system.
Other than mooching off the Federal government, what is the plan for the next hurricane and all the other environmental challenges Florida is facing? No wonder DeSantis is waging so many cultural wars. He's unwilling to do what is necessary to address the existential crises that Floridians face now and in the near future. That would require raising taxes on the super wealthy by changing the regressive tax system for starters. Currently, those who are tapped out by Ian, and can't afford to rebuild or rent are struggling and need help. DeSantis and Republican representatives are running a shell game. One more Hurricane Ian or worse and it will be over for DeSantis and Florida Republicans.
This is how unserious the Koch puppet is about addressing Climate Change, after over 5 years in office:
Hi Luigi, thanks for the additional info on how DeSantis and the R super-majority are adversely impacting Floridians. It's unfortunate that so many are paying the price of the Koch script. I guess the orders are to be more fascist than Trump with a fail-safe that even if DeSantis doesn't win the Presidency, Florida will be the model and base of the Koch effort to subvert democracy and replace it with a Plutocracy. Billionaires appreciate Florida's regressive income taxation system, lax regulations, and complete control of the electorate.
However, here's the catch. It's only July, with many more immanent disasters on the horizon. Another Hurricane Ian type event and DeSantis is going to end up on his knees begging the Federal Government to save his State and forced to raise revenue to save a declining and damaged economy in January 2024. Parents will be up in arms over the shell games he's conducted with their families, and their future, only to use them for his failed Presidential run.
A little late to this discussion, but a subject I've tried to document extensively on Michelangelo's Substack.
To use a recent example, Florida, according to the Tax Foundation data from 1981 thru 2005 and the Rockefeller Institute from 2015 to present, Florida is a pretty solid Welfare state. Over the 39 years from 1981 thru 2019, Florida has averaged $1.15 in federal spending for ever dollar they paid in federal taxes. Florida is NOT a successful state. It is a Welfare state.
In 2018, Florida paid $205.7 billion in Federal taxes. Wikipedia. From the Rockefeller Institute, in 2019, Florida received $1.24 in Federal Spending for every dollar paid in Federal taxes, more than it's 39year average. This would be $49 billion dollars in free money. As I live in one of 10 Donor states as of 2019, California, that would be MY money. As of 2019, if you live in Washington, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Connecticut, that would be YOUR money also. Actually, for the past 39 years, for all the Donor states except Utah and Nebraska, it's been YOUR money. Notice how the 8 Donor states for 39 years are Blue states.
Along with the State Balance of Payments, Rockefeller publishes Per Capita Balance of Payments data. For 2019, every man, woman and child in Florida, received $2597 of free money beyond what they paid in Federal taxes. For a family of four, that would be $10,388 of free money. Again, MY money. In the other 9 Donor states, YOUR money. For the historic Blue Donor states, like my state, just another year of paying for a bunch failed states. And Florida isn't even close to Kentucky. In 2018, Kentucky received $2.89 in Federal Spending for every dollar they paid in Federal Taxes. $34.7 billion paid, $100.2 billion received. MY money. Per Capita, every man, woman and child in Kentucky received $12,739 beyond what they paid in Federal Taxes. For a family of four, that would be $50,956 of free money. MY money.
One trend here, among many others you can glean from all this, is that in 2019, there were fewer Donor states than there were in 2005 when the Tax Foundation published their data, though the 8 Blue Donor states have been there for all 39 years of data. New Jersey by the way has averaged $.65 back on it's Federal Tax dollar. Bend over and grab your ankles. New York and Massachusetts have averaged around $.85.
Another trend from the data is that the relative amounts of money going to the Welfare states (personally, I like Failed states or Socialist states) is going UP. For 35 years, Kentucky averaged $1.46 in federal spending. As of 2019, they are at $2.32! In a relatively short period of time, things seem to have gotten a lot worse in Kentucky. I have a neighbor from Kentucky. He knows McConnell's kids. He knows exactly what I'm talking about.
A few tidbits. If you're in a Donor state, you're paying for all this crap right now. In fact, you've been paying for it most, if not all of, your life. Started with Reconstruction, and here we are 158 years later doing the same thing. The hidden economy of the U.S. A handful of Successful Blues States paying for a whole bunch of Failed Red States. Perhaps we should try something different.
Personally, I've met with my local State Senator. He thought what I had to say was 'provocative'. Not sure why that would be, but he said he would bring it up with 'Gavin'. I've also made phone calls to my U.S. Representative, a progressive, but not real vocal, and to Reps in immediately adjacent districts. As I'm not from their district, I'm not a high priority.
Calling Reps from the Welfare states might be interesting. I assume they are aware of the set up, but I guess you never really know. 'Why do you need so much of MY Federal Tax money?' Any suggestions on other ways to approach this? Newspapers, U.S. Senators, Governors? I don't know about you, but I'm tired of paying for these people and all this crap going on right now.
This twisted subsidizing of Red states by Blue states?
It is no different than Mr. George Floyd's Minneapolis taxes subsidizing his own murder-by-cop by funding the killer cop's (Derek Chauvin's) Police Dept.
How do we tell this story publicly over and over as we should? It's difficult to say they are freeloaders without sounding like a bunch of arrogant pricks. It's the old "basket of deplorables" situation once again. It's the absolute truth, but look what happened when HRC said it.
Yet, it should be shouted from every debate stage. There should be billboards in the big southern cities. Above all else there should be an internet blitz that the national news cannot ignore. This is a great issue---hell, it's the only issue that will resonate with right-wingers. They are obsessed with MONEY.
Fair is fair, as they say. The inverse of that postulate is no less true. People and states who have been more successful should not be propping up those which have failed to “take care of business” or of their responsibilities. Wait – that sounds strangely familiar. Yes, that’s what I thought. That is essentially the party line of the conservatives/Republicans/reactionaries. Hard-working people should not have to give up the fruits of their labor and their property or wealth to take care of those people who have squandered their resources.
The sentiment is admirable. But fairness in this case is a little too complex for most people for anything to happen in the way of rectifying the situation in the foreseeable future. First of all, there are also lots of powerful people and interests in Blue states working at cross purposes to those who support liberal/progressive/sane policies and working in league with the backward looking Red state officials and power brokers. Secondly, media owners have no interest in allowing the merits and details of such a change to ever reach the public. Thirdly, the big players will go to any lengths and spend millions on right-wing propaganda and talking points to quash this proposal, while the public will have more interest in football games and myriad other entertaining diversions.
This is not to say that this and other ideas should not be pursued with vigor and determination. Every attempt to draw attention to wrongs and systemic errors should be tried, and giving up without a fight is not an option. It doesn’t take a genius to see what has been happening for a very long time and changes do come eventually once momentum builds. Being a wet blanket is no fun at all. However, I’m afraid that our only hope is a series of positive events and major losses on the right with a huge shift in public attitudes and awareness in the next few years and decades. Right now, it’s a coin toss unless you truly are a cynic.
If one reads Quora, one notices that there are a lot of Brits who worship the Royals and nobility as gods. They obviously pine for the days that they were serfs, and did not have to make any decisions other that what porridge or gruel they would eat for Dinner. These are the same twits, that constitute the fascist base.
It is the same in the red states. I am descended from plow boys and share croppers, who themselves once owned slaves, but not at the time the Citadel cadets fired on Ft Sumter .
They happily marched off to die in service to their betters, leaving a wife and children behind shortly to become widows and orphans.. Also a couple of cousins who were slain, one was captured and died of smallpox at Camp Douglas, Chicago. Some bought into the states "rats" b.s., others were motivated by racism.
The red states haven't changed at all, in fact they have become worse, being infected with religious extremism, LGBT phobia, and the misogyny of male superiority and rule (meaning that they really don't believe they are superior.
A truly superior person does not need any artifices to bolster their ego, id and identity.
Obscene and cruel to force anyone of us who believe in fairness and equality to help Republicans dismantle this country so they get richer.
Thom is on the money again. I made this argument to a red state right-wing supporter when savaging the SALT cap on Federal tax return deductions. I explained that it was uncapped before to correct for the fact that blue states pay more in Federal taxes, while getting less Federal funding and comparatively providing more services in their states than red states.
I included links to support and made the point that Republicans raised Federal taxes on middle class families in blue states to give breaks to wealthy people. Needless to say, no amount of facts or reason swayed him. Honestly, I believe that rolling back the post-Clinton wealthy tax breaks and removing the SALT cap could help accomplish some correction to this dynamic.
Red states have weak, junk economies, no unions, low wages, no freedoms & massive levels of corruption. Women are property, brown & black people are 3rd class citizens, while billionaires & corporations control everything and get obscenely rich off the backs of their wage slaves.
Failed red states are subsidized by successful blue states. It's time for this red state scam to end.
Here’s a question/comment. I’d been thinking about the Red State Moochers a month or so ago … wondering if there are ways to make those states beef up their contributions to their own damn welfare. After reading yesterday’s column I remembered the debate “revenue sharing” v “block grants.” Under revenue sharing policy the states had to use the federal funds for the purposes specified by the feds: clean water $$ must be spent on clean water. But after Reagan the Red states began chipping away at funds under revenue sharing … and transferred the funds to block grants. Under block grants the states can do whatever they want with federal $. So a handy solution to this mooching would put more federal funding into revenue sharing programs & out of block grants. When I figure out what this involves I’ll let you know.
Terrific analysis.
Failed right-wing policies of free trade, the trickle down, immigration, unfunded wars, capitalist healthcare, interest on the national debt, wasted military spending, corporate welfare, bank bailouts, offshore banking... have cost the left, over a 100 trillion dollars the last 60 years in my opinion. Now that America is in debt, from Republican right wing obstructionism, the right wants a dictatorship so they can protect all that they have stolen. Anyone who earns under $500,000 a year who votes Republican, needs their head examined. The Southern States would like to ship all of their mentally ill, their criminals, their lazy and unintelligent to the northern states to cripple the northern states. If the whole nation of America becomes a dictatorship, the right will build internment camps where they just magically disappear. But they are anti-abortion, because they need more healthy slaves that are obedient of all races. And the right will still let in more immigrants if they need more labor, replacing the fat white man who is lazy and wants $20 an hour. The GOP voters will be lucky if they don't die from a heat stroke or starvation. In their quest to make the left be tortured, they will learn what poverty is themselves.
And the PBS Newshour reported that TX gets $3 billion plus, for internet everywhere. BTW, the Confederacy has never left; probably stronger than ever. They take the confederate flag out of play but replace it with KKK flags- really! Check out the KKK flags online; GA? Klan flag.
I do understand that the funds are sent to state governments who are misusing them, but I do not advocate punishing those who are poor or uneducated as I said. This just furthers division and suffering. I prefer to connect with people on the level that if we do not change the political system none of this really matters because we will all be impoverished, starving, migrating due to climate change or nuked due to our imperialism and perpetual wars which are promoted by selective grievers like Thom Hartmann.
Yes indeed Clarence Thomas was the tie-breaking vote on Citizens United, and Clarence Thomas was brought to us by your hero Joe Biden who publicly humiliated a black woman Anita Hill and denied her a proper hearing. The harm that Biden himself has done to black families with his "Tough on Crime" nonsense and continued militarism and plan to add 100,000 police officers as likely had more negative impact on these communities than Republican policies. In addition, Democratic mayors around the country continue to maintain segregation in major cities by placating donors and buckling to political pressure (see: Rahm Emanuel and Lori Lightfoot in Chicago). Finally, while I do agree that the ideology in red states is sick and twisted, I do not agree with punishing the poor folks who live there by withholding funding as programs that benefit those who need it would also be affected. Your attitude in putting down poor and less educated Americans shows how low you've gone in your quest to satisfy your listeners' schadenfreude.
It's telling how Florida experienced an estimated 258 Billion in damages from Hurricane Ian but the Florida State Budget of 120 billion hasn't increased, when controlling for inflation. Someone is getting short changed and it's not the super wealthy as Florida has a regressive income tax system.
Other than mooching off the Federal government, what is the plan for the next hurricane and all the other environmental challenges Florida is facing? No wonder DeSantis is waging so many cultural wars. He's unwilling to do what is necessary to address the existential crises that Floridians face now and in the near future. That would require raising taxes on the super wealthy by changing the regressive tax system for starters. Currently, those who are tapped out by Ian, and can't afford to rebuild or rent are struggling and need help. DeSantis and Republican representatives are running a shell game. One more Hurricane Ian or worse and it will be over for DeSantis and Florida Republicans.
This is how unserious the Koch puppet is about addressing Climate Change, after over 5 years in office:
https://news.yahoo.com/de-santis-proposes-adapting-to-climate-change-without-doing-any-left-wing-stuff-194130311.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
Hi Luigi, thanks for the additional info on how DeSantis and the R super-majority are adversely impacting Floridians. It's unfortunate that so many are paying the price of the Koch script. I guess the orders are to be more fascist than Trump with a fail-safe that even if DeSantis doesn't win the Presidency, Florida will be the model and base of the Koch effort to subvert democracy and replace it with a Plutocracy. Billionaires appreciate Florida's regressive income taxation system, lax regulations, and complete control of the electorate.
However, here's the catch. It's only July, with many more immanent disasters on the horizon. Another Hurricane Ian type event and DeSantis is going to end up on his knees begging the Federal Government to save his State and forced to raise revenue to save a declining and damaged economy in January 2024. Parents will be up in arms over the shell games he's conducted with their families, and their future, only to use them for his failed Presidential run.
A little late to this discussion, but a subject I've tried to document extensively on Michelangelo's Substack.
To use a recent example, Florida, according to the Tax Foundation data from 1981 thru 2005 and the Rockefeller Institute from 2015 to present, Florida is a pretty solid Welfare state. Over the 39 years from 1981 thru 2019, Florida has averaged $1.15 in federal spending for ever dollar they paid in federal taxes. Florida is NOT a successful state. It is a Welfare state.
In 2018, Florida paid $205.7 billion in Federal taxes. Wikipedia. From the Rockefeller Institute, in 2019, Florida received $1.24 in Federal Spending for every dollar paid in Federal taxes, more than it's 39year average. This would be $49 billion dollars in free money. As I live in one of 10 Donor states as of 2019, California, that would be MY money. As of 2019, if you live in Washington, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey or Connecticut, that would be YOUR money also. Actually, for the past 39 years, for all the Donor states except Utah and Nebraska, it's been YOUR money. Notice how the 8 Donor states for 39 years are Blue states.
Along with the State Balance of Payments, Rockefeller publishes Per Capita Balance of Payments data. For 2019, every man, woman and child in Florida, received $2597 of free money beyond what they paid in Federal taxes. For a family of four, that would be $10,388 of free money. Again, MY money. In the other 9 Donor states, YOUR money. For the historic Blue Donor states, like my state, just another year of paying for a bunch failed states. And Florida isn't even close to Kentucky. In 2018, Kentucky received $2.89 in Federal Spending for every dollar they paid in Federal Taxes. $34.7 billion paid, $100.2 billion received. MY money. Per Capita, every man, woman and child in Kentucky received $12,739 beyond what they paid in Federal Taxes. For a family of four, that would be $50,956 of free money. MY money.
One trend here, among many others you can glean from all this, is that in 2019, there were fewer Donor states than there were in 2005 when the Tax Foundation published their data, though the 8 Blue Donor states have been there for all 39 years of data. New Jersey by the way has averaged $.65 back on it's Federal Tax dollar. Bend over and grab your ankles. New York and Massachusetts have averaged around $.85.
Another trend from the data is that the relative amounts of money going to the Welfare states (personally, I like Failed states or Socialist states) is going UP. For 35 years, Kentucky averaged $1.46 in federal spending. As of 2019, they are at $2.32! In a relatively short period of time, things seem to have gotten a lot worse in Kentucky. I have a neighbor from Kentucky. He knows McConnell's kids. He knows exactly what I'm talking about.
A few tidbits. If you're in a Donor state, you're paying for all this crap right now. In fact, you've been paying for it most, if not all of, your life. Started with Reconstruction, and here we are 158 years later doing the same thing. The hidden economy of the U.S. A handful of Successful Blues States paying for a whole bunch of Failed Red States. Perhaps we should try something different.
Personally, I've met with my local State Senator. He thought what I had to say was 'provocative'. Not sure why that would be, but he said he would bring it up with 'Gavin'. I've also made phone calls to my U.S. Representative, a progressive, but not real vocal, and to Reps in immediately adjacent districts. As I'm not from their district, I'm not a high priority.
Calling Reps from the Welfare states might be interesting. I assume they are aware of the set up, but I guess you never really know. 'Why do you need so much of MY Federal Tax money?' Any suggestions on other ways to approach this? Newspapers, U.S. Senators, Governors? I don't know about you, but I'm tired of paying for these people and all this crap going on right now.
This twisted subsidizing of Red states by Blue states?
It is no different than Mr. George Floyd's Minneapolis taxes subsidizing his own murder-by-cop by funding the killer cop's (Derek Chauvin's) Police Dept.
Perverse? . . . Nay, Diabolical.
How do we tell this story publicly over and over as we should? It's difficult to say they are freeloaders without sounding like a bunch of arrogant pricks. It's the old "basket of deplorables" situation once again. It's the absolute truth, but look what happened when HRC said it.
Yet, it should be shouted from every debate stage. There should be billboards in the big southern cities. Above all else there should be an internet blitz that the national news cannot ignore. This is a great issue---hell, it's the only issue that will resonate with right-wingers. They are obsessed with MONEY.
Fair is fair, as they say. The inverse of that postulate is no less true. People and states who have been more successful should not be propping up those which have failed to “take care of business” or of their responsibilities. Wait – that sounds strangely familiar. Yes, that’s what I thought. That is essentially the party line of the conservatives/Republicans/reactionaries. Hard-working people should not have to give up the fruits of their labor and their property or wealth to take care of those people who have squandered their resources.
The sentiment is admirable. But fairness in this case is a little too complex for most people for anything to happen in the way of rectifying the situation in the foreseeable future. First of all, there are also lots of powerful people and interests in Blue states working at cross purposes to those who support liberal/progressive/sane policies and working in league with the backward looking Red state officials and power brokers. Secondly, media owners have no interest in allowing the merits and details of such a change to ever reach the public. Thirdly, the big players will go to any lengths and spend millions on right-wing propaganda and talking points to quash this proposal, while the public will have more interest in football games and myriad other entertaining diversions.
This is not to say that this and other ideas should not be pursued with vigor and determination. Every attempt to draw attention to wrongs and systemic errors should be tried, and giving up without a fight is not an option. It doesn’t take a genius to see what has been happening for a very long time and changes do come eventually once momentum builds. Being a wet blanket is no fun at all. However, I’m afraid that our only hope is a series of positive events and major losses on the right with a huge shift in public attitudes and awareness in the next few years and decades. Right now, it’s a coin toss unless you truly are a cynic.