Thanks for the comment. I don't think we agree on everything, but probably 80%. MAGA aren't "evil" in the strict sense of the word. I am hesitant to label such a large group of people as evil, but they certainly are misguided. To me, this is a failure of their religious indoctrination - untrained, grifting "pastors" all over the heartlan…
Thanks for the comment. I don't think we agree on everything, but probably 80%. MAGA aren't "evil" in the strict sense of the word. I am hesitant to label such a large group of people as evil, but they certainly are misguided. To me, this is a failure of their religious indoctrination - untrained, grifting "pastors" all over the heartland and the south are fomenting both hatred of others and violence to get their way, in direct opposition to Christian teachings. These (mostly) men are destructive and have a lot for which to answer.
Misguided, gullible, and incapable of discernment are all character flaws, yes, but not intentional evil. Few of us wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say to ourselves, "I'm going to go commit evil today and its going to be fun." Even Hitler was convinced he was doing good in the world.
Yes, the MAGA are deeply misogynist - they are steadfastly resistant and reactionary to change. Yes, they are racist - most of them have little to no interaction with people not like them and so their behaviors are fear-based. Where I grew up there were few Jewish people - my family didn't associate with any. Yet, there was deep hatred of Jewish people. This can't be explained rationally, but it was ignorance, not evil. I look at ignorance as the Petri dish in which evil is grown.
The Catholics have a saying, "Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man." (Jesuit maxim widely attributed to Ignatius Loyola.) My ex, who was forced into Catholic schools as a child cannot utter the word "Nun" without putting "vicious" in front of it. Our child raising methods are at the heart of this. Conservatives/Religionists often whip their kids with belts or other objects, which tends to lower intelligence, create generalized and deeply embedded fear, and limit the ability to think with discernment.
Our problem is one of intractability. Once brainwashed as a child, people's behaviors become set. That is why I don't believe rational argument works on the MAGA.
And I would suggest you and I differ over the Gaza situation; I am more sympathetic to Israel, having watched a lifetime of Palestinian terrorism. But like you, I don't like the indiscriminate killing of civilians and want the violence to end.
Ms. Coyote. Your words here indicate a sophisticated mind and you are certainly more diplomatic and subtle than I. However, we are probably closer on Israel than appears at first. I grew up in a neighborhood which was 65% Jewish, my high school was 50% Jewish. I had friends who grew up on Kibbutzim. The parents of my friends had tatoos on their arms from the Nazi concentration camps. My brother married a Sephardic Jew from Casablanca. My favorite German professor in undergrad school was Rabi Kapustin an Israeli who told us beautiful tales about his life back home in the Holy-land. I was, and have been sympathetic with Israel. But I am an old man now. All that was well over half a century ago and Israel has obviously changed since that kind, gentle old Rabi's day.
I remember reading an article on the Intifada in The Atlantic - many, many years ago. Since then, Israel has had to deal with constant terrorism. A lot of us in the USA don't understand what it means, for example, to go out to eat at a pizza joint, knowing it might be bombed at any time. Israel is not without blame. The behavior around he settlements has been egregious. That said, the base of this is religious hatred of Israel and Jews that is centuries old. The Palestinians has steadfastly supported this terrorism from the very beginning of Israel's becoming a state. Has Israel over-reacted. Of course. We overreacted to 9/11 with two wars, the deaths of nearly a billion people directly and the displacement of millions more and it was indiscriminate - countries that weren't involved at all were targeted (Iran) while Saudi, a cesspool of human rights violations, was given a pass. What bothers me is that this outrage is directed solely at Israel, even though there are more profound examples of mass murder and cruelty going on all over the world. Where is the outrage, for example, for Ethiopia, Sudan, the Philippines....I could go on and on. It's only when it is Jews responding to decades of terrorism that the world get's its panties in a knot.
Ms. Coyote. During almost the entire 19th century there were many Jewish public figures who advocated a form of Zionism right along with the Christian Zionists of the time. Most are not worth mentioning. Two stand out: Teodor Herzl an Austro-Hungarian Jew and Chaim Weizman a Belarusian Jew. They both made contact with powerful Jews at the highest levels of British government. Do not forget that Benjamin Disraeli, a Jew who founded the Conservative Party was twice Prime Minister of the UK in the19th century. Chaim Weizman was in contact with powerful, wealthy Jews in England during WWl while Britain was furiously looking for Arabs who might rebel against the Ottoman-Turks and cause a rear combat action which would tie up many Turkish troops, thus easing the pressure on the British military who had recently taken a shellacking at Gallipoli. Weizman was more than willing to scheme with the British Jews against the Palestinians, who had been operating their farms for centuries in the land between the dead sea, the Jordan river and the Mediterranean. These Palestinians had been living at peace with the relatively small number of Jewish farmers as their neighbors for centuries.
Then on November 2 , 1917 came the death knell for those poor Palestinian farmers. The British Secretary of State for foreign affairs, Arthur James Balfour published his now infamous declaration:
"His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-jewish communities in Palestine."
Putting that Balfour Declaration into non-diplomatic-speak; and properly interpreting the "shall" and "may"; this declaration says Jews are to displace Muslim Palestinians IN THEIR OWN LAND. The population at the time was 94% Muslim Palestinians and 4% Jewish Palestinians.
Who has been committing terrorism against whom for the last 107 years?
You might want to read THE BALFOUR DECLARATION by J. Schneer 2010 and THE HUNDRED YEARS' WAR ON PALESTINE by R. Khalidi 2020. They are informative. Incidentally, Weizman subsequently became Israel's first President.
The US and UK were the first countries to recognize the new state of Israel. Harry Truman was eager to find a place where the US could install nuclear weapons close to the soft underbelly of the USSR and within close range of the vast Middle East oil fields. A bank shot in billiards. This was quickly done in Turkey and Israel.
This is the way of the world and the story of human-kind. It isn't only Jewish people who connive for territory and power, but it seems to upset the world far more than when any other group does it.
Ms. Coyote. It is not true that "it seems to upset the world far more than when any other group does it."
When the Japanese Empire expanded into Manchuria and China the US firebombed Tokyo flat, killing close to one million. The US obliterated Nagasaki and Hiroshima with atomic bombs, killing half of a million in total. This brought the end of the Japanese Empire. General MacArthur was the unchallenged dictator of japan for one decade after the Japanese surrender.
When the Germans expanded in Europe twice during one lifetime the US and UK attacked them bombing their cities into rubble, killing millions; two times all in the span of one generation.
The US is doing nothing to stop the expansion of Israel. But is instead supplying them with hundreds of millions of dollars in US-made weapons. Israel is and has been during your lifetime the biggest recipient in the world of US aid.
Israel has 284 US-made war planes. The Palestinians have no war planes.
Israel has over 2200 US-made tanks. The Palestinians have no tanks.
This war has triggered a lot of people who are now reacting as much to past atrocities and traumas as they are to the current reality. It's understandable. But It is the slaughter of about 11,000 children and their families that has the world's panties tied in knots along with the probability that Netanyahu's decisions were the worst of many other options available. Biden tried to warn him.
Thanks for the comment. I don't think we agree on everything, but probably 80%. MAGA aren't "evil" in the strict sense of the word. I am hesitant to label such a large group of people as evil, but they certainly are misguided. To me, this is a failure of their religious indoctrination - untrained, grifting "pastors" all over the heartland and the south are fomenting both hatred of others and violence to get their way, in direct opposition to Christian teachings. These (mostly) men are destructive and have a lot for which to answer.
Misguided, gullible, and incapable of discernment are all character flaws, yes, but not intentional evil. Few of us wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and say to ourselves, "I'm going to go commit evil today and its going to be fun." Even Hitler was convinced he was doing good in the world.
Yes, the MAGA are deeply misogynist - they are steadfastly resistant and reactionary to change. Yes, they are racist - most of them have little to no interaction with people not like them and so their behaviors are fear-based. Where I grew up there were few Jewish people - my family didn't associate with any. Yet, there was deep hatred of Jewish people. This can't be explained rationally, but it was ignorance, not evil. I look at ignorance as the Petri dish in which evil is grown.
The Catholics have a saying, "Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man." (Jesuit maxim widely attributed to Ignatius Loyola.) My ex, who was forced into Catholic schools as a child cannot utter the word "Nun" without putting "vicious" in front of it. Our child raising methods are at the heart of this. Conservatives/Religionists often whip their kids with belts or other objects, which tends to lower intelligence, create generalized and deeply embedded fear, and limit the ability to think with discernment.
Our problem is one of intractability. Once brainwashed as a child, people's behaviors become set. That is why I don't believe rational argument works on the MAGA.
And I would suggest you and I differ over the Gaza situation; I am more sympathetic to Israel, having watched a lifetime of Palestinian terrorism. But like you, I don't like the indiscriminate killing of civilians and want the violence to end.
Ms. Coyote. Your words here indicate a sophisticated mind and you are certainly more diplomatic and subtle than I. However, we are probably closer on Israel than appears at first. I grew up in a neighborhood which was 65% Jewish, my high school was 50% Jewish. I had friends who grew up on Kibbutzim. The parents of my friends had tatoos on their arms from the Nazi concentration camps. My brother married a Sephardic Jew from Casablanca. My favorite German professor in undergrad school was Rabi Kapustin an Israeli who told us beautiful tales about his life back home in the Holy-land. I was, and have been sympathetic with Israel. But I am an old man now. All that was well over half a century ago and Israel has obviously changed since that kind, gentle old Rabi's day.
I remember reading an article on the Intifada in The Atlantic - many, many years ago. Since then, Israel has had to deal with constant terrorism. A lot of us in the USA don't understand what it means, for example, to go out to eat at a pizza joint, knowing it might be bombed at any time. Israel is not without blame. The behavior around he settlements has been egregious. That said, the base of this is religious hatred of Israel and Jews that is centuries old. The Palestinians has steadfastly supported this terrorism from the very beginning of Israel's becoming a state. Has Israel over-reacted. Of course. We overreacted to 9/11 with two wars, the deaths of nearly a billion people directly and the displacement of millions more and it was indiscriminate - countries that weren't involved at all were targeted (Iran) while Saudi, a cesspool of human rights violations, was given a pass. What bothers me is that this outrage is directed solely at Israel, even though there are more profound examples of mass murder and cruelty going on all over the world. Where is the outrage, for example, for Ethiopia, Sudan, the Philippines....I could go on and on. It's only when it is Jews responding to decades of terrorism that the world get's its panties in a knot.
Forgot the link: https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/ongoing-mass-killing
Ms. Coyote. During almost the entire 19th century there were many Jewish public figures who advocated a form of Zionism right along with the Christian Zionists of the time. Most are not worth mentioning. Two stand out: Teodor Herzl an Austro-Hungarian Jew and Chaim Weizman a Belarusian Jew. They both made contact with powerful Jews at the highest levels of British government. Do not forget that Benjamin Disraeli, a Jew who founded the Conservative Party was twice Prime Minister of the UK in the19th century. Chaim Weizman was in contact with powerful, wealthy Jews in England during WWl while Britain was furiously looking for Arabs who might rebel against the Ottoman-Turks and cause a rear combat action which would tie up many Turkish troops, thus easing the pressure on the British military who had recently taken a shellacking at Gallipoli. Weizman was more than willing to scheme with the British Jews against the Palestinians, who had been operating their farms for centuries in the land between the dead sea, the Jordan river and the Mediterranean. These Palestinians had been living at peace with the relatively small number of Jewish farmers as their neighbors for centuries.
Then on November 2 , 1917 came the death knell for those poor Palestinian farmers. The British Secretary of State for foreign affairs, Arthur James Balfour published his now infamous declaration:
"His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of the existing non-jewish communities in Palestine."
Putting that Balfour Declaration into non-diplomatic-speak; and properly interpreting the "shall" and "may"; this declaration says Jews are to displace Muslim Palestinians IN THEIR OWN LAND. The population at the time was 94% Muslim Palestinians and 4% Jewish Palestinians.
Who has been committing terrorism against whom for the last 107 years?
You might want to read THE BALFOUR DECLARATION by J. Schneer 2010 and THE HUNDRED YEARS' WAR ON PALESTINE by R. Khalidi 2020. They are informative. Incidentally, Weizman subsequently became Israel's first President.
The US and UK were the first countries to recognize the new state of Israel. Harry Truman was eager to find a place where the US could install nuclear weapons close to the soft underbelly of the USSR and within close range of the vast Middle East oil fields. A bank shot in billiards. This was quickly done in Turkey and Israel.
This is the way of the world and the story of human-kind. It isn't only Jewish people who connive for territory and power, but it seems to upset the world far more than when any other group does it.
Ms. Coyote. It is not true that "it seems to upset the world far more than when any other group does it."
When the Japanese Empire expanded into Manchuria and China the US firebombed Tokyo flat, killing close to one million. The US obliterated Nagasaki and Hiroshima with atomic bombs, killing half of a million in total. This brought the end of the Japanese Empire. General MacArthur was the unchallenged dictator of japan for one decade after the Japanese surrender.
When the Germans expanded in Europe twice during one lifetime the US and UK attacked them bombing their cities into rubble, killing millions; two times all in the span of one generation.
The US is doing nothing to stop the expansion of Israel. But is instead supplying them with hundreds of millions of dollars in US-made weapons. Israel is and has been during your lifetime the biggest recipient in the world of US aid.
Israel has 284 US-made war planes. The Palestinians have no war planes.
Israel has over 2200 US-made tanks. The Palestinians have no tanks.
This war has triggered a lot of people who are now reacting as much to past atrocities and traumas as they are to the current reality. It's understandable. But It is the slaughter of about 11,000 children and their families that has the world's panties tied in knots along with the probability that Netanyahu's decisions were the worst of many other options available. Biden tried to warn him.