Sunlight and accountability are still the best disinfectants and America needs to close this ugly chapter in our history with a sense of both finality and justice…
"America is in chaos, and it’s largely because neither Schumer in the Senate nor Garland at DOJ saw fit to investigate and prosecute Trump’s and Putin’s congressional allies who were also involved in January 6th."
We all wondered why nothing happened for at least a whole year - and figured there was deliberate hold on investigating because of who had been the people involved....they stalled until they no longer could. I think it could be said to be 'without malice' but humans are really, really good at justifying anything they do as being 'in the best interests of.....'. I believe trump has thought all along this could not possibly happen to him since he knows they were all fellow conspirators ! It's the most disgusting situation !
Pardon me, not quarreling, or disputing. I just want to know how the 14th Amendment applies here>
Passed by the Senate on June 8, 1866, and ratified two years later, on July 9, 1868, the Fourteenth Amendment granted citizenship to all persons "born or naturalized in the United States," including formerly enslaved people, and provided all citizens with “equal protection under the laws,” extending the provisions of the Bill of Rights to the states. The amendment authorized the government to punish states that abridged citizens’ right to vote by proportionally reducing their representation in Congress. It banned those who “engaged in insurrection” against the United States from holding any civil, military, or elected office without the approval of two-thirds of the House and Senate. The amendment prohibited former Confederate states from repaying war debts and compensating former slave owners for the emancipation of their enslaved people. Finally, it granted Congress the power to enforce this amendment, a provision that led to the passage of other landmark legislation in the 20th century, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Congress required former Confederate states to ratify the Fourteenth Amendment as a condition of regaining federal representation.
On October 30, the first 14th Amendment case will be heard in Colorado. The members of Congress who aided, abetted or gave comfort to the insurrection stand in the same position as Trump. Many who argue for this position are ex-Federalist Society members who can read.
The suit was filed Sept. 6 by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington on behalf of six Colorado voters, who argue Trump is disqualified under a provision of the 14th Amendment that bars certain office-seekers who have engaged in insurrection.
The plaintiffs include former Republican U.S. representative from Rhode Island Claudine (Cmarada) Schneider, who now lives in Colorado; former Colorado House and Senate Majority Leader Norma Anderson, an unaffiliated voter who recently left the Republican party; Denver Post columnist and Republican activist Krista Kafer; Michelle Priola, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian.
They argue Trump, the leading GOP candidate for president in 2024, is disqualified under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which says no person who took an oath to support the Constitution then had “engaged in insurrection … or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof” can hold any office in the United States.
The suit says Trump “tried to overthrow the results of the 2020 presidential election” and incited and “engaged in” the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The defendants are Trump and Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold, a Democrat.
Most of the Friday hearing concerned procedural matters. Trump’s lawyer in the case, Scott Gessler, a former Republican Colorado secretary of state, indicated he intends to try to get the case tossed under a recent Colorado law that protects people who exercise First Amendment rights from the threat of lawsuits — known as an anti-SLAPP law. The allegations against Trump in the case are all “based on his speech,” Gessler said.
“We believe it’s a winner,” Gessler said of the pending motion under anti-SLAPP — or “strategic lawsuits against public participation.”
Gessler had objected to the proposed protective order by arguing that witness tampering and intimidation are already outlawed and that Trump critics had also engaged in objectionable speech. He noted that Griswold has said Trump tried to “steal an election” and labeled the events of Jan. 6 an “insurrection.”
“That is definitely coming from other quarters,” Gessler said of what Grimsley had called “inflammatory” speech.
Wow, thanks for that. It helps when comments are clarified. So the case against Trump is based on the 14th Amendment. Wonder why a similar case hasn't been filed in swing states/
I'm guessing that Secretary of State Griswold is a co-defendant because in CO, as in many states, the secretary of state oversees elections, including who (and what) goes on the ballot. Is this so?
Merrick the Meek never wanted to indict. He only did so as a result of intense public pressure. Those in power protect one another, even if they hate each other. That's how it works.
They may hate each other across the aisle, but they will circle the wagons if anyone on either side is threatened for things they have done or might want to do in the future..
I want the government to go after the members of Congress, Senate and other participants in organizing the insurrection (e.g. Ginni Thomas and Charlie Kirk,) but I’m doubtful that the DOJ will ever hold them accountable.
Agree all Trump loyalists who push lies and who are domestic enemies or aligned with Putin should be removed and punished. The whole enchilada seems rotted. It’s constant chaos or perhaps designed to wear us all down. It’s like Jan 6 never stopped
I am learning to ignore it as there isn’t much I personally can do other than vote but gosh darn I really pray for our country and this constant chaos and destabilization to stop.
Totally agree,once again it is because Merrick Garland is a conservative, a hard right conservative otherwise Orrin Hatch R-UT (a right wing extremist) would never have vetted him to Obama. His ten terms as a moderator for the MODERN Federalist society doesn't help either, but shows where his ideology lies.
I’ve been wondering why they weren’t investigated/charged since the beginning. Now you say the statute of limitations has passed?????????? Did Jack Smith charge TFG just in time? I was hoping he’d go after the others “next”.
This is so maddening & depressing. And I’m back to being furious with Merrick Garland.
Once again I thank god I’m old with no children. I don’t see the U.S. recovering from this (nor Ukraine, nor the planet from climate change.)
I finally got around to listening to Rachel Maddow’s podcast series “Ultra” about the Nazi plan to overturn the US government. (I’m up to episode 5 out of ?) It seems Repubs have dusted off that playbook, but this time it seems to be working.
My only hope is that Americans wake up.
Biden and Dems across the board are our last hope.
YES, YES, YES, we the people are the only answer now. I phone bank with Sister District (we help state legislators as in VA! & more) -- Indivisible, Swing Left, and many others are fighting every day. Pls check into what's happening in your community - It's ALL HANDS ON DECK right now -- Field Team 6 (Jason Berlin); they register "low propensity voters"; watch recent Politics Girl -- great interview; Yikes! We have just ONE YEAR to make this all happen. Don'f fall for "Biden is too old". He's doing amazing things (more student debt relief today) and we are in good shape to carry on! In solidarity and hope... Jeanne in Portland, OR (where hope runs eternal:-))
Yes! And I met with a group from Heather Cox Richardson putting together a Rise Up for Democracy March on July 4th. Will be a great show of support for tenants of Democracy including rule of law.
You might say that the Non-Accountability for the Crimes of January 6th is at the Root of Chaos in Congress, but perhaps more accurately, I believe (and Thom has proven time and again) that the root of chaos in Congress can be found in the powers of corporate personhood wielded by morbidly rich sociopaths. Otherwise, the incompetent and corrupt grifters that currently hold office would never have been elected in the first place. Until those SCOTUS-spawned powers of “legal” BS are nullified, the plutocrats will continue to do things adverse to our rights and our communities’ interests because they can, and they will continue to employ Putin-like sociopaths to make it happen. We either Move To Amend or every battle to promote our general welfare will continue to be ugly and usually futile.
Good point. We're seeing this "root of disease/chaos" you're talking about spreading to various state legislatures as well, where we're seeing all sorts of abhorrent behavior by Republicans.
The Democrats, sadly, are to blame. Since the 1980's and the Im(Moral majority) the Republicans have been investing time, energy, money into everything from animal control officers to city councils and Governor, while the Democrats invest almost all into the Presidential Campaign. hate and fear progressives (probably because they are a threat to the megadonors), and . Democrats think of Pelosi as a hero, but not me, she backed a conservative legacy brat (Joe Kennedy Jr) against a progressive Senator Markey of Mass.
Then she backed a homophobe against a gay candidate. She,as Rahm and the Clintonistas, and DNC hate progressives. Rahm called us fucking retards. Because for them it is all about the money.
I am small d democrat, and the only reason I vote, and I would crawl over broken glass, to keep the real racist, misoygnist, Christofascists out of office, I am afraid that we will lose our precious, secular diverse democracy, even with it's flaws, it is better and safer than the alternatives.
Again, Thom, this is the response that we've been needing to at least read in our newsletters for all this time and finally are seeing here, thank you. I don't (sadly) agree with you that daylight will sanitize this situation since, within our country there are so many bigoted racists that cannot, it seems, reconcile within themselves that we have a multicultural country.
Non-Accountability is the brightest of green lights to continue "business as usual". Wrongdoings are not curbed by sweeping them under the rug, they are simply emboldened. The worst elements of human history have been conceived in, and forgotten in, places without light - places where the infection of criminal intent festered and flourished with zero meaningful recourse. It appears, at this moment, that the filthy and infested rug of January 6th lies securely taped-down on all sides - providing no light for justice or closure, and a perfect breeding environment for worse events yet to be hatched.
January 6th must be dealt with - not only by confronting the most obnoxious barnyard clown in view - but perhaps more importantly, by aggressively and openly investigating the top individuals and supporters who designed and waged this attack on the United States. Without doing so, the Putin Caucus of the GOP will almost certainly become the near-future rulers of America.
Starting with the instigators in Congress the so called "Freedom Caucus", especially Comer, Gaet, Biggs, pedophile Jordan, Boebert (she gave the signal to break into the building, MTG and Josh Hawley, without them, none of it would have happened, especially Boebert, they are the MAGGOTS, inside conspirators. And Garland has not nor will he ever, hold them to account, just like he has let Ivanka, Jr and Eric slide while appoint an aggressive Trump humper as special counsel for Hunter.
Was it the egregious Ron Johnson who tried to hand deliver a slate of fake electors to Pence, but it was intercepted by a bright staffer? Then Ron said, duh, I didn't really know what it was, just passed it along because, you know, somebody handed it to me.....But who needs to be remembered as a hero is the staffer who picked up all the true slates and kept them safe, almost as the doors were being breached. I seem to remember it was a woman. All hail that girl!
Title 50 USC Ch 34 authorizes the President to declare a nation emergency, All presidents of late have used, like Trump declaring one to use military funds to build his wall.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United
Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
But it does not specify which chamber of congress, the house or the Senate.
In fact it the constitution says nothing about approving a budget See above Art 1, Section 9
Money is withdrawn from the budget, when the Dept of the Treasury, pays interest on and redeems, the debt of the US, and the Article says nothing about Congress
President Biden, if used the power granted him by the Constitution and enabling legislation, could declare a National Emergency, and fund Ukraine. He also does need the House to approve a budget
I also fault Chuck Schumer, because he lacks the fortitude to discipline recalcitrant Senators in his own party and change the rules which allow Tuberville to downgrade national security by holding up appointments of Generals.
Just as McArthy is the architect of his own downfall, so is the Democratic party the architect of America's downfall, because it is spineless, antiquated, lives in the mythical past. Schumer hides in his shell, and Biden has shown courage as of late, by standing up, but not enough to use his constitutional powers to override or ignore the House of Representatives, and as leader of the party to discipline assholes like Menendez and Manchin.
As an incurable optimist, I prefer to believe that Garland made a strategic decision to start with the low-level terrorists who could be found and prosecuted and then go for the most conspicuous conspirators at the top whose culpability was public, and to avoid the many allegations of a political purge by waiting until after Trump was cut off at the knees (figuratively speaking). The loudmouth freaks such as Bobert and MTG would have created so much of a stir and made so much of a show of their persecution that it would have given Trump cover or allowed him to play up the "witch hunt" diversion for public consumption. I'm betting that the case against the people identified here in Congress is being quietly buttressed using the info gained from the people who have turned states evidence and with Trump off the stage they will be prosecuted before the statute of limitations runs out (if there is one for sedition). One can only hope.
Your optimism failed you, because the ring leaders of the insurrection, were inside the house, and Garland has done nothing about them, True Jack Smith, not Garland, has gone after the culprits in Trumps staff, and lawyers, but have not touched and will not touch congress.
No excuses for Garland, and I detest apologists, as either naive or compromised. Because An apology is needed only if guilty. I will and do apologize if I mispeak or am poven wrong.
You are very sure that Garland or Smith will not investigate and indict members of Congress at some point before it is too late. You may be right. Or, you could be wrong. That's why it's called speculation. I guess there is little we can do except bitch and complain and wait. If they fail to act, sooner or later, I will condemn them for their omission. Stay tuned.
If I am wrong, I will admit in public and here on Thom's site, but I am hardly ever wrong because I don't live in a polyanna fantasy world, and I judge people on what they do and don't do, and so far Garland has gone out of his way to prosecute Hunter, including a Trump Humping attorney as special counsel, while not mentioning a thing abou Ivanka and the Trump boys, not to mention the traitors and fascist in Congress, that conspired with and aided the traitors..
Believe it or not substack makes the rounds. I've even seen hosts on TV, and "journalists" pick up on stuff that is commented on here. One example is the word Quisling. I started to use i a couple of years ago. Before it had died out, because the generation that used it to describe traitors had either died off or were old farts like me (84 years). I revived it and now it is making it's rounds, and that is not all. I've heard TV hosts use it. If you don't know what it means and it's origin, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling
Edit added. I've been bitchin for over a year a out spineless Joe and his bipartisan, ameliorationist attitude, being a symptom of weakness and letting the MAGGOTS steam roll him and the Republic.
Finally, in the last couple of weeks he has come out of his shell, and gone on the attack calling the fascists out. Maybe, if not him, someone on his staff or in the DNC has seen the light. I can't claim credit but it sure looks coincidental, and I don't believe in coincidences.
There are over 150 Congresspeople and Senators who knowingly and deliberately participated in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. Justice demands that they be held accountable - if no one has the guts to prosecute them, then release the names of all that did the dirty deeds and let them stew in the light of public disclosure..... Those in the House who voted to object to Biden's electors from the swing states did so knowing the objections were bogus, and the election was fair and honest. They were acting out their parts in a play written by mad men, but very determined mad men with a goal of ending our democratic experiment and replacing it with something more to their liking.....fascism.
And why WaPo gave Gingri(n)ch an op-ed -- well, I wish I could say it's beyond me, but the mindlessness of media both-sides-ism stopped surprising me quite a while ago.
Thanks for the reminder. That takes me back to Clinton's re election. By then I realized who and what he was, however up jumped Newt Gingrich, the most hypocritical and obnoxious politician on the scene at the time,attacking Clinton, and I had no choice, I felt, but to support Clinton, Clinton had, by that time showed signs that he was betraying his base, which he did when he signed the Omnibus Crime Bill (Blacks), The Telecommunications act (killed the requirement for the media to give equal time to all sides - thus enabled Murdoch to achieve his goal of destroying Democracy.(IIRC his second wife was Russian). signed the Respect for Marrage Act (betraying gays), NAFTA and GAAT betrayed laborers, and his satyrism, I know the Jeffifer Flowers story is true, because it was not beyond a satyr to use the state police of Arkansas as procurers of prostitutes, and finally his wife with Monica, though that didn't matter to her, Hillary is pragmatic and saw an opportunity to become the first woman president.
Our household felt so betrayed by NAFTA and GATT that we detoured to a sign out in backroads of West County Sonoma that pointed to "RALPH NADER" and campaigned for him twice. It's pretty much Bernie Sanders making some earthly sense now. As for Florida, even Pat Buchanan admitted he got more votes by accident. NOT SORRY!
As one who listens attentively, and takes in a wide sweep of events, my conclusion is more distilled, or more simple, than what you put forth. Bottom line, Trump had and still has a hold on power beyond what he ever imagined possible. Along with his access to power, in his "ungoverned" and unrestrained approach to using this power, he has overstepped many legal and moral lines. His ability to attract minions, and intimidate by threatening them with various forms of destruction maintains and often increases this power. So, no matter what other Senators and Representatives did (and are still doing) to support Trump's attempt to steal this past election, Trump is the First Cause. Liz Cheney discerned wisely that any diversion away from evidence that Trump pulled all the strings (and is still pulling--Matt Gaetz revealed that he speaks regularly with Trump).
Rather than speak up and speak out, those in Congress want to avoid harassment or even physical harm to them and their families, so no "moral courage" or appreciation for Founding Fathers brilliant work to form this government.
Trump used Putin, and Putin knew and knows how to manipulate Trump. MBS also knew and knows how to play with Trump's ego for his benefit.
I would be very pleased if all of the Congressional culprits were indicted on good evidence [Cruz reeks of complicit guilt and wears it well; Mike Lee was worried that the committee would have access to cell phone records], but Trump would love for the heat to be taken off him, and thank goodness, now 4 trials are scheduled to hold him accountable.
Couldn't agree more - "Trump is the First Cause". And Murdoch for promoting Trump, back then at least, along with McConnell in the Senate. Americans are too swayed by image, and Trump knows how to manipulate that - holding press conferences in a court room is a prime example. His current court case is a reminder of what a fraud he is, but will it stick? or will all that people remember be the press conferences he's holding, where he airs his "victim" grievances?
Hi Lee - I didn't see your message until the end of the call today. The Ask Thom session is a paid subscriber benefit and an email goes out about 24 hours before the event with the log-in details.
This is what has baffled and infuriated me for years. Merrick Garland would have done NOTHING of consequence were it not for the Jan 6th commission shedding light on the planned, violent attempt to overthrow the government. Schumer is a wimp. Biden has consistently tried to steer the National conversation to normalcy, and bipartisanship. Which is laughable and infuriates me because NONE of this is normal. His tepid speeches, and yes he even his accomplishments are too little and far too late.
I’m still left every single day with a furious desire to do something that will make an actual impact. I read, I join, I sign up, I vote... the lunatics are still storming the capitol. The brat billionaires are still controlling and buying up social media and legacy media. The Christo-fascists still preach to their cults and recruit new zombie members while remaining tax exempt. We don’t have our own army or organization to thwart this so far rather successful dismantling of everything we hold dear as a democracy. Lawsuits? citizen’s arrests? The scenario all but begs for vigilantism, which I’ve always been taught was wrong. I don’t even know what to desperately dream for- (Nightmare for) And my rage and frustration leave me with helpless fantasies of ruthless retribution.
*sigh
I hate these sadistic, destructive, sociopathic assholes. All the more so because I’m afraid they’re winning.
Enough of this crippling empathy or pity on these Republican law breakers.
Its time to clean up Congress and strip back the overgrowth of rot, that has become the Republican members of Congress.
No wonder we are in such a lawless time.
Gun toting crazies are shooting up the country at will. The Trump trashy affect on everywhere he opens his mouth , needs to be eliminated. The Judge s need to do their jobs and go by the Constitution as it applies today . Stop the Chaotic Conduit of Putins overseeing our government. Shut Trump-up, he is destroying everything good in this country . He still is being allowed to peddle his gruesome lies. It needs to stop . Shut down a few of his big mouth pieces who also lie constantly. Do not let Jim Jordan anywhere near the powers of the Speaker.
I agree to some extent, but I believe the lack of accountability that led us to this point dates back to Barack Obama excusing away Bush, Cheney, Yoo and the rest of the Iraq War cabal with his statement about not looking back but looking forwards. This was the turning point in that if nobody is held accountable for the mass murder of half a million Iraqis and the war crimes and torture that ensued, all of which was based on lies and the political expediency of both parties, what will anyone ever be held accountable for? This lack of accountability also fed the misinformation phenomena in that it validated the beliefs of those who thought the war was somehow justified by taking it completely out of public view.
I do think your obsession with the leaders of Russia, China and North Korea is bizarre as they are not the problem. And the continued China bashing feeds the xenophobia that leads to hate crimes here in the US.
There we go again, your response Barry, is just what is expected from a Putinist. Immediately change the subject to Obama, and then come out in an oblique defense of Russia, China and North Korea. I do hope that the readers are on to you, and see through your charade.
Is Barry using us for practice? I just stopped reading his schtick: so predictable, as you say. You don't have to waste your energy replying to everything, Bill. We know.
Putin interfered in 2016 in our election per Mueller, and it's obvious he's been at it since then. The Chinese military stole my and a million more like me's personal info in 2015, through our security cleareances.
The greatest, clearest and most present danger we have is Trump/Putin and their allies. I include OPEC/Saudi - Iran, etc.
Putin also has none. Jails/executes his political enemies, foreign and domestic. He is accused of war crimes,
"Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute)."
Granted media is a problem, because the media is the primary reason Trump was elected,
But China, Russia and North Korea are a problem, unless one is an ideological sympathizer with these authoritarian regimes. It is they that have and have always since WII, threatened world peace and democratic rule..
Agreed. We blame other countries when we don't want to look in the mirror and hold our own leaders accountable. Thom Hartmann calls it "circling the wagons," I call it critical thinking.
You can call it anything, but your opinion is of no value, as you have exposed yourself.If you aren't a Putinista, then you sound like a modern version of a Tankie
I don't think it is just 'critical thinking' it is also Geography which to my remembrance is not taught in schools?
When I was living in the US and I had to go to a Hospital for some tests, the woman on the desk read my 'profile.' She asked me where was SL in relation to S. America!
I can't resist where is "SL?" Southern Louisiana? Slovakia? I Googled for an American State by those initials, and stumped Google. Internationally, I got Sierra Leone. Are you seriously sneering at American basic ed. for not drilling on the map of West Africa? Well, sooooooorrry.
(also laughing!) By golly, I was raised by two schoolteachers with an atlas at my fingertips, toured Europe at age 10 in a VW bus with sticker DK, was near-fluent in Latin and German at graduation, and Sri Lanka just plumb did not come to mind! My education so deficient!
PS never mind the map: you have to know the international code, per your standard. Yep. Memorizing that right alongside the elements. You got that one right at tip of your tongue?
"America is in chaos, and it’s largely because neither Schumer in the Senate nor Garland at DOJ saw fit to investigate and prosecute Trump’s and Putin’s congressional allies who were also involved in January 6th."
Thom, you've absolutely nailed it.
We all wondered why nothing happened for at least a whole year - and figured there was deliberate hold on investigating because of who had been the people involved....they stalled until they no longer could. I think it could be said to be 'without malice' but humans are really, really good at justifying anything they do as being 'in the best interests of.....'. I believe trump has thought all along this could not possibly happen to him since he knows they were all fellow conspirators ! It's the most disgusting situation !
Wonder why the 14th Amendment remedy is not tried on each of them, especially those who asked Trump for a pardon?
Pardon me, not quarreling, or disputing. I just want to know how the 14th Amendment applies here>
Passed by the Senate on June 8, 1866, and ratified two years later, on July 9, 1868, the Fourteenth Amendment granted citizenship to all persons "born or naturalized in the United States," including formerly enslaved people, and provided all citizens with “equal protection under the laws,” extending the provisions of the Bill of Rights to the states. The amendment authorized the government to punish states that abridged citizens’ right to vote by proportionally reducing their representation in Congress. It banned those who “engaged in insurrection” against the United States from holding any civil, military, or elected office without the approval of two-thirds of the House and Senate. The amendment prohibited former Confederate states from repaying war debts and compensating former slave owners for the emancipation of their enslaved people. Finally, it granted Congress the power to enforce this amendment, a provision that led to the passage of other landmark legislation in the 20th century, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Congress required former Confederate states to ratify the Fourteenth Amendment as a condition of regaining federal representation.
On October 30, the first 14th Amendment case will be heard in Colorado. The members of Congress who aided, abetted or gave comfort to the insurrection stand in the same position as Trump. Many who argue for this position are ex-Federalist Society members who can read.
The suit was filed Sept. 6 by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington on behalf of six Colorado voters, who argue Trump is disqualified under a provision of the 14th Amendment that bars certain office-seekers who have engaged in insurrection.
The plaintiffs include former Republican U.S. representative from Rhode Island Claudine (Cmarada) Schneider, who now lives in Colorado; former Colorado House and Senate Majority Leader Norma Anderson, an unaffiliated voter who recently left the Republican party; Denver Post columnist and Republican activist Krista Kafer; Michelle Priola, Kathi Wright, and Christopher Castilian.
They argue Trump, the leading GOP candidate for president in 2024, is disqualified under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which says no person who took an oath to support the Constitution then had “engaged in insurrection … or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof” can hold any office in the United States.
The suit says Trump “tried to overthrow the results of the 2020 presidential election” and incited and “engaged in” the Jan. 6 insurrection.
The defendants are Trump and Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold, a Democrat.
Most of the Friday hearing concerned procedural matters. Trump’s lawyer in the case, Scott Gessler, a former Republican Colorado secretary of state, indicated he intends to try to get the case tossed under a recent Colorado law that protects people who exercise First Amendment rights from the threat of lawsuits — known as an anti-SLAPP law. The allegations against Trump in the case are all “based on his speech,” Gessler said.
“We believe it’s a winner,” Gessler said of the pending motion under anti-SLAPP — or “strategic lawsuits against public participation.”
Gessler had objected to the proposed protective order by arguing that witness tampering and intimidation are already outlawed and that Trump critics had also engaged in objectionable speech. He noted that Griswold has said Trump tried to “steal an election” and labeled the events of Jan. 6 an “insurrection.”
“That is definitely coming from other quarters,” Gessler said of what Grimsley had called “inflammatory” speech.
A five-day trial in the case is scheduled.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-insurrection-14th-amendment-speech-colorado-9626b6ae8479e6a4ce34c3391f207426
Wow, thanks for that. It helps when comments are clarified. So the case against Trump is based on the 14th Amendment. Wonder why a similar case hasn't been filed in swing states/
(question is rhetorical).
Filed in several other states.
I'm guessing that Secretary of State Griswold is a co-defendant because in CO, as in many states, the secretary of state oversees elections, including who (and what) goes on the ballot. Is this so?
Yep.
Courts in Washington DC have identified the assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6 as an "insurrection", so that legal determination has already been made.
Everyday we have weasels within not solving or decay but making democracy decay faster than ever can you even imagine more of these wolves?
The doj waited over 2 years if I recollect, then siced Jack Smith on Trump only. Trump will be able to pardon himself.
Merrick the Meek never wanted to indict. He only did so as a result of intense public pressure. Those in power protect one another, even if they hate each other. That's how it works.
They may hate each other across the aisle, but they will circle the wagons if anyone on either side is threatened for things they have done or might want to do in the future..
I want the government to go after the members of Congress, Senate and other participants in organizing the insurrection (e.g. Ginni Thomas and Charlie Kirk,) but I’m doubtful that the DOJ will ever hold them accountable.
Agree all Trump loyalists who push lies and who are domestic enemies or aligned with Putin should be removed and punished. The whole enchilada seems rotted. It’s constant chaos or perhaps designed to wear us all down. It’s like Jan 6 never stopped
You’re correct, the constant chaos persists.
I am learning to ignore it as there isn’t much I personally can do other than vote but gosh darn I really pray for our country and this constant chaos and destabilization to stop.
I do the same.
But this so I can't ignore https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/04/republican-votes-kevin-mccarthy-ousted/
I can’t either.
NOTHING to do with Putin.
This is American dimness.
These are domestic enemies and criminals and connected to Putin.
Totally agree,once again it is because Merrick Garland is a conservative, a hard right conservative otherwise Orrin Hatch R-UT (a right wing extremist) would never have vetted him to Obama. His ten terms as a moderator for the MODERN Federalist society doesn't help either, but shows where his ideology lies.
I’ve been wondering why they weren’t investigated/charged since the beginning. Now you say the statute of limitations has passed?????????? Did Jack Smith charge TFG just in time? I was hoping he’d go after the others “next”.
This is so maddening & depressing. And I’m back to being furious with Merrick Garland.
Once again I thank god I’m old with no children. I don’t see the U.S. recovering from this (nor Ukraine, nor the planet from climate change.)
I finally got around to listening to Rachel Maddow’s podcast series “Ultra” about the Nazi plan to overturn the US government. (I’m up to episode 5 out of ?) It seems Repubs have dusted off that playbook, but this time it seems to be working.
My only hope is that Americans wake up.
Biden and Dems across the board are our last hope.
YES, YES, YES, we the people are the only answer now. I phone bank with Sister District (we help state legislators as in VA! & more) -- Indivisible, Swing Left, and many others are fighting every day. Pls check into what's happening in your community - It's ALL HANDS ON DECK right now -- Field Team 6 (Jason Berlin); they register "low propensity voters"; watch recent Politics Girl -- great interview; Yikes! We have just ONE YEAR to make this all happen. Don'f fall for "Biden is too old". He's doing amazing things (more student debt relief today) and we are in good shape to carry on! In solidarity and hope... Jeanne in Portland, OR (where hope runs eternal:-))
Yes! And I met with a group from Heather Cox Richardson putting together a Rise Up for Democracy March on July 4th. Will be a great show of support for tenants of Democracy including rule of law.
You made my day.
Yeah it is concerning on so many levels
You might say that the Non-Accountability for the Crimes of January 6th is at the Root of Chaos in Congress, but perhaps more accurately, I believe (and Thom has proven time and again) that the root of chaos in Congress can be found in the powers of corporate personhood wielded by morbidly rich sociopaths. Otherwise, the incompetent and corrupt grifters that currently hold office would never have been elected in the first place. Until those SCOTUS-spawned powers of “legal” BS are nullified, the plutocrats will continue to do things adverse to our rights and our communities’ interests because they can, and they will continue to employ Putin-like sociopaths to make it happen. We either Move To Amend or every battle to promote our general welfare will continue to be ugly and usually futile.
Good point. We're seeing this "root of disease/chaos" you're talking about spreading to various state legislatures as well, where we're seeing all sorts of abhorrent behavior by Republicans.
The Democrats, sadly, are to blame. Since the 1980's and the Im(Moral majority) the Republicans have been investing time, energy, money into everything from animal control officers to city councils and Governor, while the Democrats invest almost all into the Presidential Campaign. hate and fear progressives (probably because they are a threat to the megadonors), and . Democrats think of Pelosi as a hero, but not me, she backed a conservative legacy brat (Joe Kennedy Jr) against a progressive Senator Markey of Mass.
Then she backed a homophobe against a gay candidate. She,as Rahm and the Clintonistas, and DNC hate progressives. Rahm called us fucking retards. Because for them it is all about the money.
I am small d democrat, and the only reason I vote, and I would crawl over broken glass, to keep the real racist, misoygnist, Christofascists out of office, I am afraid that we will lose our precious, secular diverse democracy, even with it's flaws, it is better and safer than the alternatives.
A 2 party system owned by big money Is NOT a democracy.
Yes the Dems. have money in this game which is why 3rd party's are important.
Again, Thom, this is the response that we've been needing to at least read in our newsletters for all this time and finally are seeing here, thank you. I don't (sadly) agree with you that daylight will sanitize this situation since, within our country there are so many bigoted racists that cannot, it seems, reconcile within themselves that we have a multicultural country.
Given their serious concerns about child safety, I am sure that QAnnon will call for Mat Gaetz to be prosecuted any day now. [/Sarcasm]
Non-Accountability is the brightest of green lights to continue "business as usual". Wrongdoings are not curbed by sweeping them under the rug, they are simply emboldened. The worst elements of human history have been conceived in, and forgotten in, places without light - places where the infection of criminal intent festered and flourished with zero meaningful recourse. It appears, at this moment, that the filthy and infested rug of January 6th lies securely taped-down on all sides - providing no light for justice or closure, and a perfect breeding environment for worse events yet to be hatched.
January 6th must be dealt with - not only by confronting the most obnoxious barnyard clown in view - but perhaps more importantly, by aggressively and openly investigating the top individuals and supporters who designed and waged this attack on the United States. Without doing so, the Putin Caucus of the GOP will almost certainly become the near-future rulers of America.
Starting with the instigators in Congress the so called "Freedom Caucus", especially Comer, Gaet, Biggs, pedophile Jordan, Boebert (she gave the signal to break into the building, MTG and Josh Hawley, without them, none of it would have happened, especially Boebert, they are the MAGGOTS, inside conspirators. And Garland has not nor will he ever, hold them to account, just like he has let Ivanka, Jr and Eric slide while appoint an aggressive Trump humper as special counsel for Hunter.
Was it the egregious Ron Johnson who tried to hand deliver a slate of fake electors to Pence, but it was intercepted by a bright staffer? Then Ron said, duh, I didn't really know what it was, just passed it along because, you know, somebody handed it to me.....But who needs to be remembered as a hero is the staffer who picked up all the true slates and kept them safe, almost as the doors were being breached. I seem to remember it was a woman. All hail that girl!
Wow, another story buried by the press. I wish we knew the name of that hero. She saved the Republic, yes she did.
💯 👍
As regards Ukraine and the budget
Title 50 USC Ch 34 authorizes the President to declare a nation emergency, All presidents of late have used, like Trump declaring one to use military funds to build his wall.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United
Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
But it does not specify which chamber of congress, the house or the Senate.
In fact it the constitution says nothing about approving a budget See above Art 1, Section 9
Money is withdrawn from the budget, when the Dept of the Treasury, pays interest on and redeems, the debt of the US, and the Article says nothing about Congress
President Biden, if used the power granted him by the Constitution and enabling legislation, could declare a National Emergency, and fund Ukraine. He also does need the House to approve a budget
I also fault Chuck Schumer, because he lacks the fortitude to discipline recalcitrant Senators in his own party and change the rules which allow Tuberville to downgrade national security by holding up appointments of Generals.
Just as McArthy is the architect of his own downfall, so is the Democratic party the architect of America's downfall, because it is spineless, antiquated, lives in the mythical past. Schumer hides in his shell, and Biden has shown courage as of late, by standing up, but not enough to use his constitutional powers to override or ignore the House of Representatives, and as leader of the party to discipline assholes like Menendez and Manchin.
As an incurable optimist, I prefer to believe that Garland made a strategic decision to start with the low-level terrorists who could be found and prosecuted and then go for the most conspicuous conspirators at the top whose culpability was public, and to avoid the many allegations of a political purge by waiting until after Trump was cut off at the knees (figuratively speaking). The loudmouth freaks such as Bobert and MTG would have created so much of a stir and made so much of a show of their persecution that it would have given Trump cover or allowed him to play up the "witch hunt" diversion for public consumption. I'm betting that the case against the people identified here in Congress is being quietly buttressed using the info gained from the people who have turned states evidence and with Trump off the stage they will be prosecuted before the statute of limitations runs out (if there is one for sedition). One can only hope.
Your optimism failed you, because the ring leaders of the insurrection, were inside the house, and Garland has done nothing about them, True Jack Smith, not Garland, has gone after the culprits in Trumps staff, and lawyers, but have not touched and will not touch congress.
No excuses for Garland, and I detest apologists, as either naive or compromised. Because An apology is needed only if guilty. I will and do apologize if I mispeak or am poven wrong.
You are very sure that Garland or Smith will not investigate and indict members of Congress at some point before it is too late. You may be right. Or, you could be wrong. That's why it's called speculation. I guess there is little we can do except bitch and complain and wait. If they fail to act, sooner or later, I will condemn them for their omission. Stay tuned.
If I am wrong, I will admit in public and here on Thom's site, but I am hardly ever wrong because I don't live in a polyanna fantasy world, and I judge people on what they do and don't do, and so far Garland has gone out of his way to prosecute Hunter, including a Trump Humping attorney as special counsel, while not mentioning a thing abou Ivanka and the Trump boys, not to mention the traitors and fascist in Congress, that conspired with and aided the traitors..
Believe it or not substack makes the rounds. I've even seen hosts on TV, and "journalists" pick up on stuff that is commented on here. One example is the word Quisling. I started to use i a couple of years ago. Before it had died out, because the generation that used it to describe traitors had either died off or were old farts like me (84 years). I revived it and now it is making it's rounds, and that is not all. I've heard TV hosts use it. If you don't know what it means and it's origin, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling
Edit added. I've been bitchin for over a year a out spineless Joe and his bipartisan, ameliorationist attitude, being a symptom of weakness and letting the MAGGOTS steam roll him and the Republic.
Finally, in the last couple of weeks he has come out of his shell, and gone on the attack calling the fascists out. Maybe, if not him, someone on his staff or in the DNC has seen the light. I can't claim credit but it sure looks coincidental, and I don't believe in coincidences.
There are over 150 Congresspeople and Senators who knowingly and deliberately participated in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. Justice demands that they be held accountable - if no one has the guts to prosecute them, then release the names of all that did the dirty deeds and let them stew in the light of public disclosure..... Those in the House who voted to object to Biden's electors from the swing states did so knowing the objections were bogus, and the election was fair and honest. They were acting out their parts in a play written by mad men, but very determined mad men with a goal of ending our democratic experiment and replacing it with something more to their liking.....fascism.
These are merely the latest and worst manifestations of the scorched earth style of legislating put into place by arch-villain Newt Gingrich.
And why WaPo gave Gingri(n)ch an op-ed -- well, I wish I could say it's beyond me, but the mindlessness of media both-sides-ism stopped surprising me quite a while ago.
Thanks for the reminder. That takes me back to Clinton's re election. By then I realized who and what he was, however up jumped Newt Gingrich, the most hypocritical and obnoxious politician on the scene at the time,attacking Clinton, and I had no choice, I felt, but to support Clinton, Clinton had, by that time showed signs that he was betraying his base, which he did when he signed the Omnibus Crime Bill (Blacks), The Telecommunications act (killed the requirement for the media to give equal time to all sides - thus enabled Murdoch to achieve his goal of destroying Democracy.(IIRC his second wife was Russian). signed the Respect for Marrage Act (betraying gays), NAFTA and GAAT betrayed laborers, and his satyrism, I know the Jeffifer Flowers story is true, because it was not beyond a satyr to use the state police of Arkansas as procurers of prostitutes, and finally his wife with Monica, though that didn't matter to her, Hillary is pragmatic and saw an opportunity to become the first woman president.
Our household felt so betrayed by NAFTA and GATT that we detoured to a sign out in backroads of West County Sonoma that pointed to "RALPH NADER" and campaigned for him twice. It's pretty much Bernie Sanders making some earthly sense now. As for Florida, even Pat Buchanan admitted he got more votes by accident. NOT SORRY!
As one who listens attentively, and takes in a wide sweep of events, my conclusion is more distilled, or more simple, than what you put forth. Bottom line, Trump had and still has a hold on power beyond what he ever imagined possible. Along with his access to power, in his "ungoverned" and unrestrained approach to using this power, he has overstepped many legal and moral lines. His ability to attract minions, and intimidate by threatening them with various forms of destruction maintains and often increases this power. So, no matter what other Senators and Representatives did (and are still doing) to support Trump's attempt to steal this past election, Trump is the First Cause. Liz Cheney discerned wisely that any diversion away from evidence that Trump pulled all the strings (and is still pulling--Matt Gaetz revealed that he speaks regularly with Trump).
Rather than speak up and speak out, those in Congress want to avoid harassment or even physical harm to them and their families, so no "moral courage" or appreciation for Founding Fathers brilliant work to form this government.
Trump used Putin, and Putin knew and knows how to manipulate Trump. MBS also knew and knows how to play with Trump's ego for his benefit.
I would be very pleased if all of the Congressional culprits were indicted on good evidence [Cruz reeks of complicit guilt and wears it well; Mike Lee was worried that the committee would have access to cell phone records], but Trump would love for the heat to be taken off him, and thank goodness, now 4 trials are scheduled to hold him accountable.
Couldn't agree more - "Trump is the First Cause". And Murdoch for promoting Trump, back then at least, along with McConnell in the Senate. Americans are too swayed by image, and Trump knows how to manipulate that - holding press conferences in a court room is a prime example. His current court case is a reminder of what a fraud he is, but will it stick? or will all that people remember be the press conferences he's holding, where he airs his "victim" grievances?
Hi Lee - I didn't see your message until the end of the call today. The Ask Thom session is a paid subscriber benefit and an email goes out about 24 hours before the event with the log-in details.
This is what has baffled and infuriated me for years. Merrick Garland would have done NOTHING of consequence were it not for the Jan 6th commission shedding light on the planned, violent attempt to overthrow the government. Schumer is a wimp. Biden has consistently tried to steer the National conversation to normalcy, and bipartisanship. Which is laughable and infuriates me because NONE of this is normal. His tepid speeches, and yes he even his accomplishments are too little and far too late.
I’m still left every single day with a furious desire to do something that will make an actual impact. I read, I join, I sign up, I vote... the lunatics are still storming the capitol. The brat billionaires are still controlling and buying up social media and legacy media. The Christo-fascists still preach to their cults and recruit new zombie members while remaining tax exempt. We don’t have our own army or organization to thwart this so far rather successful dismantling of everything we hold dear as a democracy. Lawsuits? citizen’s arrests? The scenario all but begs for vigilantism, which I’ve always been taught was wrong. I don’t even know what to desperately dream for- (Nightmare for) And my rage and frustration leave me with helpless fantasies of ruthless retribution.
*sigh
I hate these sadistic, destructive, sociopathic assholes. All the more so because I’m afraid they’re winning.
Well said.
In any Country we are just people ruled by wealthy elites.
I hear your pain because I am going through this as well.
When you can't fight you feel sick/annihiliated/forced to become estranged from society.
You revert into your own little world because no-one understands.
You are not alone.
Enough of this crippling empathy or pity on these Republican law breakers.
Its time to clean up Congress and strip back the overgrowth of rot, that has become the Republican members of Congress.
No wonder we are in such a lawless time.
Gun toting crazies are shooting up the country at will. The Trump trashy affect on everywhere he opens his mouth , needs to be eliminated. The Judge s need to do their jobs and go by the Constitution as it applies today . Stop the Chaotic Conduit of Putins overseeing our government. Shut Trump-up, he is destroying everything good in this country . He still is being allowed to peddle his gruesome lies. It needs to stop . Shut down a few of his big mouth pieces who also lie constantly. Do not let Jim Jordan anywhere near the powers of the Speaker.
I agree to some extent, but I believe the lack of accountability that led us to this point dates back to Barack Obama excusing away Bush, Cheney, Yoo and the rest of the Iraq War cabal with his statement about not looking back but looking forwards. This was the turning point in that if nobody is held accountable for the mass murder of half a million Iraqis and the war crimes and torture that ensued, all of which was based on lies and the political expediency of both parties, what will anyone ever be held accountable for? This lack of accountability also fed the misinformation phenomena in that it validated the beliefs of those who thought the war was somehow justified by taking it completely out of public view.
I do think your obsession with the leaders of Russia, China and North Korea is bizarre as they are not the problem. And the continued China bashing feeds the xenophobia that leads to hate crimes here in the US.
There we go again, your response Barry, is just what is expected from a Putinist. Immediately change the subject to Obama, and then come out in an oblique defense of Russia, China and North Korea. I do hope that the readers are on to you, and see through your charade.
Is Barry using us for practice? I just stopped reading his schtick: so predictable, as you say. You don't have to waste your energy replying to everything, Bill. We know.
Yes it does seem that people need to blame Russia/China etc BUT the US has always done this.
Media is the problem and uneducated Americans.
Putin interfered in 2016 in our election per Mueller, and it's obvious he's been at it since then. The Chinese military stole my and a million more like me's personal info in 2015, through our security cleareances.
The greatest, clearest and most present danger we have is Trump/Putin and their allies. I include OPEC/Saudi - Iran, etc.
Fight or flight?
I beg to disagree.
Do you really think the same is not going on in China/Russia via the USA?
The US is aggravating China/Russia into World War 3
Frankly I am amazed that the Russians have had to forbearance not to wipe out the US. This includes China.
You are walking into a very big 'muddy' puddle!'
The more the mainstream press asserts how wrong China/Russia is the US will believe their OWN press.
YOU are a dying Empire and the 'people in charge' will use any propaganda it wants!
Empires come and go...this is how History works.
In America (because most of the people are uneducated) will be the reason why you lose.
Actually, no.
We have proof, evidence. You have none.
Putin also has none. Jails/executes his political enemies, foreign and domestic. He is accused of war crimes,
"Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute)."
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and#:~:text=Mr%20Vladimir%20Vladimirovich%20Putin%2C%20born,articles%208(2)(a
Jenny ends with "Just a person who wants a world without US hegemony." Which does raise the question, whose hegemony does she propose to live under?
Daniel you need to grow up.
Stick to your own country. Obviously brainwashed.
Definitely.
Granted media is a problem, because the media is the primary reason Trump was elected,
But China, Russia and North Korea are a problem, unless one is an ideological sympathizer with these authoritarian regimes. It is they that have and have always since WII, threatened world peace and democratic rule..
Dying Empires always come up with this!
You are an uneducated people.
1/2 - 3/4 of the population do not know Geography.
Agreed. We blame other countries when we don't want to look in the mirror and hold our own leaders accountable. Thom Hartmann calls it "circling the wagons," I call it critical thinking.
You can call it anything, but your opinion is of no value, as you have exposed yourself.If you aren't a Putinista, then you sound like a modern version of a Tankie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie#:~:text=Tankie%20is%20a%20pejorative%20label,Leninism%2C%20whether%20contemporary%20or%20historical.
I don't think it is just 'critical thinking' it is also Geography which to my remembrance is not taught in schools?
When I was living in the US and I had to go to a Hospital for some tests, the woman on the desk read my 'profile.' She asked me where was SL in relation to S. America!
I can't resist where is "SL?" Southern Louisiana? Slovakia? I Googled for an American State by those initials, and stumped Google. Internationally, I got Sierra Leone. Are you seriously sneering at American basic ed. for not drilling on the map of West Africa? Well, sooooooorrry.
Sri Lanka.
I feel like Slim Pickens in Dr Strangelove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjMPHhuoXQ
(also laughing!) By golly, I was raised by two schoolteachers with an atlas at my fingertips, toured Europe at age 10 in a VW bus with sticker DK, was near-fluent in Latin and German at graduation, and Sri Lanka just plumb did not come to mind! My education so deficient!
PS never mind the map: you have to know the international code, per your standard. Yep. Memorizing that right alongside the elements. You got that one right at tip of your tongue?