I am getting tired of this helplessness and futility. We still have not gotten to the root of these myriad problems. Moment of truth: Superstition is still a profound problem.
We have had political correctness when it comes to superstition for far too long. Superstition, wearing the cloak of God and religion has been ruling our lives fore…
I am getting tired of this helplessness and futility. We still have not gotten to the root of these myriad problems. Moment of truth: Superstition is still a profound problem.
We have had political correctness when it comes to superstition for far too long. Superstition, wearing the cloak of God and religion has been ruling our lives forever. It is high time we freed ourselves from its death grip. God is the authoritarian tyrant behind the curtain pulling strings. He has to go. Enough of the debilitating orthodoxy! Bad religion and hypocrisy have been in our crosshairs for a very long time. But there is no good religion if God can bully his way into our politics and social affairs with impunity at every turn. It is time to give him a pink slip and run him out of town on a rail. God is never satisfied to just be worshipped. He wants omnipotence and we have given it to him. ENOUGH! They said he was dead a while ago. But they refused to accept reality, and the reactionaries kept him on life support so he could come back and take over. We will either put an end to him and his oppression, or he will put an end to us. I am sorry I am verbose and confusing. I never learned how to think or write well. But I recently posted my thoughts in a new article on Substack. Maybe someone can summarize it. The title is: "We Created Machines, Computers, AI, and God: Can We survive Them?" Subtitle: "Will Americans Choose to Grow Up; or Will We Die as Immature Children?" Religion has wormed into our minds, our politics, our society, and our schools, despite all attempts to keep it in its proper place. We will not have freedom and liberty until we are free of the power of religion, using a fake god as a terrorist and a prison warden.
It’s not “God” it’s human’s using the Almighty to threaten other people. That’s why Religion was Supposed to be Separate from anything to do with Government in this country.
Our ancestors (who wrote the Constitution) fled from countries that did exactly what the theocrats are trying to do now in the United States - attempting to impose their version of God on everyone else.
In Europe that tactic lead to hundreds of thousands of murders in the “name of God”
Bullshit -
That’s not what the New Testament teaches.
These people aren’t Christians anymore than Hitler was a Christian.
Anymore than Putin is a Christian.
The Republicans who attack the vulnerable are liars and criminals taking apart our country for their own purposes
Elon Musk is a twisted, ketamine fueled Nazi fiend who is a money sucking parasite on this country and should be exorcised like the leech he is. No one elected Elon.
I agree with your sentiments of much of what you say Kay. Save for this.
The Bible is akin to a supermarket, you browse the aisles (pages) and pick out what suits you and discard the rest. Thomas Jeffeson said of it that Christians take scissors and glue, so he did the same with his Jefferson Bible (you can google and download it, it has none of the crap of Paul.
There is even more than one Jesus, so people choose the one that they like
There is the Jesus of Matthew, the sermon on the mount
and the Jesus of Luke who commanded: Bring before me, he who would not have me reign over him and slay him. and who also said: Sell your cloak and buy a sword.
There is the Jesus of Saul who said women should stay silent and if they wish to learn anything ask their husband.
The Bible has something for everyone. Rape, genocide, incest, you name it.
And the earliest known record of a resurrection story originated in Sumeria more than 6,000 years ago. There have been several others since then. Take your pick.
The dudes who wrote the old testament and the new testament, relied on myths passed around and modified thousands of years
Who ever started writing the old testament had worked in the library of Babylon and were familiar with the Sumerian stories of the creation,Eden and the flood. The Akkadians displaced the Sumerians but kept the myths, albeit in modified form to fit them,the Babylonians displaced the Akkadians and wash,rinse repeat.
The Book of Esther and her Uncle Mordecai are Ashera and Marduke (Venus and Mars). There was no such massacre as recorded in Esther.
Moses was a composite figure,even the Hindu's have Krshna floating down the river in a basket and there was the story of Talmudz.
Solomon was the Assyrian wise fish god,with some historical attributes of Assyrian kings. David also a composite figure.
Even the name of their god Ya was taken from the Caanninites.
You can see it in the exclamation of praise praise ye Ia, halleluiah,Greek eleleu were placed at the hymns of praise to Apollo
Religion the greatest con ever sold.
Jesus was a composite figure, most likely a Jewish rebel,maybe even Barabas, Dionysos, the Greek god of wine,who turned water into wine,the name means son of god (Dios or Zeus) also born of a god and a mortal,and Apollonius of Tyana,actually Apollonius travel loque is the same as Pauls but in reverse order.
You are correct, but Saturnicus is not the only one morphed into Jesus.
Actually I think this is how it went down. The Pharisees were a group of Greek educated stoics, and watched the people try to fight the Romans, without success, guerrilla warfare didn't hack it, Masada was the last straw.
If you can't beat them from without, defeat them from within. Rome's strength was it's martial spirit,it celebrated war and conquests with Triumph's , columns, games, it built the Coliseum with slaves taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestinaand sliver plundered from Jerusalem.
If you can't beat them from without, then beat them from within, pacify them, and Jewish missionairies set out through the Roman lands, starting with Anatolia and proselytized the message of pacificism of brotherly love.
It of course grew and soon there were hundreds of missionaries in the Roman Markets clamoring for attention and followers.
Too much for Constantine, it was out of control, so he decided not to fight the movement but to co opt it, and gathered together the most notoroius and sequestered them in Nicea, sat guards at the door plied with with young boys and wine, and told them they couldn't come out until they came up with a coheisive consensus.
Well they beat each other badly, but eventually settled on the Trinitarian Nicean creed.
Then when it came time to formalize the cult, all of the written documents were gathered together, and under supervision of wealthy Romans like Piso,
that were assembled in a book, translated from the Greek under the Auspices of Jerome and a former Manichean priest to which the church gave the name, the great one or Augustine, and the produced the Latin Vulgate, the collection of manuscripts on vellum and papyrus that became the "Holy Bible", there are many versions, the Catholic Douay Rheims differs from the KJV and he Guttenberg Version and the Ferrar Fenton differs tremendously from the KJV, being a translation from the original Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek. I had this version, gave it to my son. It us interesting, it formed the basis of the British Israel movement,of Benjamin D'Israeliand Queen Victoria.
Actually at the time, the dichotomy was followers of James, brother of Jesus and Paul, who never met Jesus.
The historical bibles did not have Easter, and didn't have resurection. "The Council of Nicaea was pivotal in early Christian history as the first ecumenical council, convened by Emperor Constantine to address the Arian controversy, resulting in the Nicene Creed, which affirmed Jesus' divinity and established a foundation for Christian doctrine." Thus sayeth AI.
You are presupposing that there was a historical Jesus.
There wasn't, if anything he would have been named Joshua or Yahooshua.
The name itself, going back to the Greeks, was a simile of Dionysos (the name means son of god), his signet was IHS or Iota Eta Sigma.
Now the Greek eta (H) is both a consonant and a vowel, depending on it's placement at the beginning as in Helen it is pronounced as we pronounce the H. in the mididle of a word it is pronounced as an "ee" as in Jesus.
It is the same with the Roman I, both a vowel and a consonant. I as in Ijulius is pronounced somewhat like we pronounce the J, in the middle of the word it is soft and pronounced like the middle i in Iulius.
The early Jesus was brought into Latin as IHS to which the masculine us as in Augustus, or Spartacus was appended and thus you have Jesus. The rebel Jew would have been named Joshua, which means savior, and certainly not anointed as the messiah.
The messiah at that time was the anointed one, he would be anointed with oil blessed by the rebbe.
There is an interpolation, a fraud inserted in the works of Josephus, himself a Romanized Jew, he says in The Jewish Wars, that there was a man named Jesus the Christ or messiah. No Jew would have referred to a heretic of some one who claimed to be a messiah. This is believed to be an interpolation, probably by Piso.
The Greek had no word for a Messiah, but since a Messiah was the anointed one, and was anointed with oil, The early creators of this myth, used the Greek word for rubbing with olive oil, basically an oil message, Christos, see also Crisco.
Next lesson the origin and real meaning and purpose of the Chi Rho. (see the signet of Astarrte)
This whole story presupposes that there existed a Yahooshua (Joshua or Savior) and the whole retinue.
As Voltaire said, all of ancient history is naught more than popularly accepted Myths.
We talk of the Gallic wars as is they were actual events, when they were written by Julius Caesar himself.
But I guess we have no choice do we.
I still have two very thick and large volumes by Godfrey Higgins: Anacalypsis, Drawing aside the Siatic Veil. Tis eye opening., Written in the 19th Century, he tells of a place called Talmud in what is now Pashtun Pakistan.
And it turns out that Pashutun has so many Hebrew words that Israeli Rabbis claim that they are one of the missing 12 tribes. I don't ascribe to the 12 tribes myth., but linquistics show a connection between that part of the Indian continent and the Levant, they were, after all connected by the silk road
Haologroups haplogroups R1a1a-M17, C3-M217, J2-M172, and L-M20 are found among Mizrahi Jews, though their frequencies and specific lineages can vary between different Mizrahi communities are found among Mizrahi Jews, Afghanis and Pshtun's, though R1a-M17 is the most frequent.
There is a lot of Baloney. E.G. The Thirteenth Tribe, a 1976 book by Arthur Koestler advocating the Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry, the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Judeans and Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people who allegedly mass-converted to Judaism. Gregory Huggins fits into that category.
It was a good thing that DNA was not available to the Nazis and Fascists in the Hitler'Franco era. I estimate half the Spanish population has some Moorish or Jewish genes. Same with the creole populations in the Americas.
I'm in a Spanish lit class. A lot of Spanish is filtered with Hebrew, Arabic, German (Visigoyhs), Greek and other influences. Cervantes, classic Spanish, is probably actually Ladino, with mostly Jewish references.
Interesting response. I am not a Jew, of course but know something about historical Judaism and it's origins., What I know can be disputatious and evoke defensive reactions and I want no part of contributing to the hate.
There is enough of that, the scapegoats are lined up, trans, Jews, queers, blacks, women and sadly too many who are scapegoated have embraced the scapegoaters.
I have read Arthur Koestlers the 13th Tribe and his argument is persuasive, and as a genetic genealogist I have had the opportunity to compare DNA of various cultures and ethnicities.
My YDNA is a sub, sub,sub, clade of R-Z93, is the ancestor of at least 4 descendant lineages known as R-Z94, R-YP5585, R-FGC82884, & R-BY226207.
Ashkenazim Jews who are R1a1 are R-Z94, I am subclade R-YP5585,
The clades arose in the region between the Black and Caspian sea.
Ashkenazim are of different genetic stock than Sephardim, but there is, because of interbreeding of populations DNA like the Cohanim DNA found in Ashkenazim and Sephardim
It is increasingly difficult to discuss this because of the thousands years history of Jewish oppression, be it Edward I or Ferdinand and Isabella, or the Catholic Church and Adolph Hitler
My maternal great grandmother was a German Jew name of Bena Schaum., she married a Catholic by name of Bowers
Anyway I read Koestlers book and all I can say is it computes, King Buhlan under pressure from Russian Orthodox and Islam, called the reps to his court, inquired of them their beliefs, found a common denominator Abraham and took the third way, and had rabbis come to his kingdom to teach his people and convert them.
I don't see a problem, but there is the thousand year problem and political sensitivity that stands in the way.
Arthur Koestler was himself a Jew, and he opens his book proclaiming that Hitlers persecution of the Ashkenazi was all wrong because they weren't Hebrews.
As regards British Israel, I know all about it,as I understand it Benjamin D'Israeli was behind it, he even had genealogical trees crafted to prove that Queen Victoria was descended from David. And as I said the Ferrar Fenton bible was the British Israel bible.
Actually Godfrey Higgins does not fit into the category you describe, He was a 19th Century explorer, his book is actually two books, large and all fine print documenting so much of the Indus Valley and it's culture.
As regards the native tribe in Colorado, having the same DNA. The thing in the telling is not the major haplogroup, but the SNP.
In my project there is a man from Pradesh India, that has the same DNA as me, R-YP5585, but there is a man from Iran and two from Kuwait who have the same subclade of YP5585 as me, which is R-YP5582, however my subclade appears, skipping 3,000 miles and years from the Caspian sea to Yorkshire England, because the current subclade of R-YP5582 that defines me is R-YP5578.
The natives of North America and South America share the same major hapologoups like C, but they have different subclades, indicating different origins, North American Indians share DNA with North Asians, but South American peoples share DNA with South east Asians, and this fact has the anthropologists and archaelogists all in a tither, because it refutes the Siberianlandbrdige hypothesis.
Hell they have even identified Mediterranean or Mideast DNA in the Paracus Skulls of Peru, (they have elongated skulls which the establishment claims were elongated by binding, yet they have a completely different seam where the parts of the skull join together.
Anway I share YDNA with Ashkkenazi Jews, but not with pure Sephardim.
Oh and my mitochondrial DNA which came down to me via the female line is J2a1b3, which is also prominent among the Ashkenazim.
Daniel I am very apprehensive about even broaching the subject, because it is fraught with identity and political problems, but I've never been one to run away from a problem or controversy. And I am certainly not an antisemite, though I don't like what Bibi, the Likkud and the Orthodox right are doing to Israel.
It was once more liberal and welcoming than America, but all of that has disappeared.,and not just because of Oct 7th,it started before, when the extreme right took over the government, just as has done here in America.
I couldn't agree with you more. My husband is a recovering Catholic. I walked away from it 20 years ago. I've apologized to my kids for making them go to church. God started resembling a malignant narcissist psychopath to me. That book was written by many over a 2000 year period, 150 yrs after said events. You would think some things might of got lost in translation. It's like a book of personal projections. Its fucking batshit crazy. Why would a drug addict win the lottery and say he's blessed, but a child dies of cancer? Lost me there. Nothing says hate like Christian love. It's a predators' paradise.
We are in agreement. Superstition is the issue. Superstition, whether it is primal or not is a choice or one alternative which we must keep in its place. Superstition creates a desire for a deity, an authority, or a creator and gives the idea of god power and inordinate significance. Science has better and more neutral and satisfactory answers, which lack the certainty and security of a protective or domineering god but also lack the arbitrariness and brutality of cults. Unfortunately, even Christianity based on the New Testament and the Beatitudes and faith tends to devolve into fanaticism and extreme beliefs and has a need to save the world and spread through orthodoxy and ultimately force. Agnostics and atheists are democratic by definition.
Religion like everything else is developmental. I tire of people who carry around a concept of God and religion that they learned as children -- and assume that is what it is ultimately all about. There is a kind of acute intellectual Sloth here -that parades as condescending brilliance all the while looking like the universal arrogance of adolescent boys returning home after their first year in college. Assume they know everything but ultimately know almost nothing. There is more in heaven and earth Horatio ---- than what your limited experience has thus far revealed. Or, as one of my favorite rabbis stated, "the God you don't believe in, doesn't exist"................
I somehow missed all but the last couple of posts in this "thread" until just now. I am unable to process it all, too much of an "intellectual sloth" to go to all that trouble. What seems to be animating the discussion is a difference between religion and philosophy and a confusion between religion and spirituality, not to mention ritual and ordinary mythology. The common difficulty seems to be that formal religion relies on an authority and becomes an authoritarian system which brooks no dissent. In all cases, we create the deity we worship. That is nonsense or a tautology or some such insanity. Who has time for all of that? We have problems to solve and mysteries to unearth. Science and reason are more my cup of tea, or what was it that Socrates drank, hemlock juice. I am a descendant of Welsh people btw. Calhouns.
I am getting tired of this helplessness and futility. We still have not gotten to the root of these myriad problems. Moment of truth: Superstition is still a profound problem.
We have had political correctness when it comes to superstition for far too long. Superstition, wearing the cloak of God and religion has been ruling our lives forever. It is high time we freed ourselves from its death grip. God is the authoritarian tyrant behind the curtain pulling strings. He has to go. Enough of the debilitating orthodoxy! Bad religion and hypocrisy have been in our crosshairs for a very long time. But there is no good religion if God can bully his way into our politics and social affairs with impunity at every turn. It is time to give him a pink slip and run him out of town on a rail. God is never satisfied to just be worshipped. He wants omnipotence and we have given it to him. ENOUGH! They said he was dead a while ago. But they refused to accept reality, and the reactionaries kept him on life support so he could come back and take over. We will either put an end to him and his oppression, or he will put an end to us. I am sorry I am verbose and confusing. I never learned how to think or write well. But I recently posted my thoughts in a new article on Substack. Maybe someone can summarize it. The title is: "We Created Machines, Computers, AI, and God: Can We survive Them?" Subtitle: "Will Americans Choose to Grow Up; or Will We Die as Immature Children?" Religion has wormed into our minds, our politics, our society, and our schools, despite all attempts to keep it in its proper place. We will not have freedom and liberty until we are free of the power of religion, using a fake god as a terrorist and a prison warden.
It’s not “God” it’s human’s using the Almighty to threaten other people. That’s why Religion was Supposed to be Separate from anything to do with Government in this country.
Our ancestors (who wrote the Constitution) fled from countries that did exactly what the theocrats are trying to do now in the United States - attempting to impose their version of God on everyone else.
In Europe that tactic lead to hundreds of thousands of murders in the “name of God”
Bullshit -
That’s not what the New Testament teaches.
These people aren’t Christians anymore than Hitler was a Christian.
Anymore than Putin is a Christian.
The Republicans who attack the vulnerable are liars and criminals taking apart our country for their own purposes
Elon Musk is a twisted, ketamine fueled Nazi fiend who is a money sucking parasite on this country and should be exorcised like the leech he is. No one elected Elon.
Send Elon to the darkness where he belongs
I agree with your sentiments of much of what you say Kay. Save for this.
The Bible is akin to a supermarket, you browse the aisles (pages) and pick out what suits you and discard the rest. Thomas Jeffeson said of it that Christians take scissors and glue, so he did the same with his Jefferson Bible (you can google and download it, it has none of the crap of Paul.
There is even more than one Jesus, so people choose the one that they like
There is the Jesus of Matthew, the sermon on the mount
and the Jesus of Luke who commanded: Bring before me, he who would not have me reign over him and slay him. and who also said: Sell your cloak and buy a sword.
There is the Jesus of Saul who said women should stay silent and if they wish to learn anything ask their husband.
The Bible has something for everyone. Rape, genocide, incest, you name it.
And the earliest known record of a resurrection story originated in Sumeria more than 6,000 years ago. There have been several others since then. Take your pick.
Thanks.
The dudes who wrote the old testament and the new testament, relied on myths passed around and modified thousands of years
Who ever started writing the old testament had worked in the library of Babylon and were familiar with the Sumerian stories of the creation,Eden and the flood. The Akkadians displaced the Sumerians but kept the myths, albeit in modified form to fit them,the Babylonians displaced the Akkadians and wash,rinse repeat.
The Book of Esther and her Uncle Mordecai are Ashera and Marduke (Venus and Mars). There was no such massacre as recorded in Esther.
Moses was a composite figure,even the Hindu's have Krshna floating down the river in a basket and there was the story of Talmudz.
Solomon was the Assyrian wise fish god,with some historical attributes of Assyrian kings. David also a composite figure.
Even the name of their god Ya was taken from the Caanninites.
You can see it in the exclamation of praise praise ye Ia, halleluiah,Greek eleleu were placed at the hymns of praise to Apollo
Religion the greatest con ever sold.
Jesus was a composite figure, most likely a Jewish rebel,maybe even Barabas, Dionysos, the Greek god of wine,who turned water into wine,the name means son of god (Dios or Zeus) also born of a god and a mortal,and Apollonius of Tyana,actually Apollonius travel loque is the same as Pauls but in reverse order.
In approximately 325 CE the Romans morphed Saturnicus into Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
That's the Jesus you know, not the circumcized tvillin wearing kosher eating bar mitvahed dovining preacher.
And Kninky Friedman is his prophet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FSWm67IhDU
You are correct, but Saturnicus is not the only one morphed into Jesus.
Actually I think this is how it went down. The Pharisees were a group of Greek educated stoics, and watched the people try to fight the Romans, without success, guerrilla warfare didn't hack it, Masada was the last straw.
If you can't beat them from without, defeat them from within. Rome's strength was it's martial spirit,it celebrated war and conquests with Triumph's , columns, games, it built the Coliseum with slaves taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestinaand sliver plundered from Jerusalem.
If you can't beat them from without, then beat them from within, pacify them, and Jewish missionairies set out through the Roman lands, starting with Anatolia and proselytized the message of pacificism of brotherly love.
It of course grew and soon there were hundreds of missionaries in the Roman Markets clamoring for attention and followers.
Too much for Constantine, it was out of control, so he decided not to fight the movement but to co opt it, and gathered together the most notoroius and sequestered them in Nicea, sat guards at the door plied with with young boys and wine, and told them they couldn't come out until they came up with a coheisive consensus.
Well they beat each other badly, but eventually settled on the Trinitarian Nicean creed.
Then when it came time to formalize the cult, all of the written documents were gathered together, and under supervision of wealthy Romans like Piso,
that were assembled in a book, translated from the Greek under the Auspices of Jerome and a former Manichean priest to which the church gave the name, the great one or Augustine, and the produced the Latin Vulgate, the collection of manuscripts on vellum and papyrus that became the "Holy Bible", there are many versions, the Catholic Douay Rheims differs from the KJV and he Guttenberg Version and the Ferrar Fenton differs tremendously from the KJV, being a translation from the original Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek. I had this version, gave it to my son. It us interesting, it formed the basis of the British Israel movement,of Benjamin D'Israeliand Queen Victoria.
So more than Saturnniecus
Actually at the time, the dichotomy was followers of James, brother of Jesus and Paul, who never met Jesus.
The historical bibles did not have Easter, and didn't have resurection. "The Council of Nicaea was pivotal in early Christian history as the first ecumenical council, convened by Emperor Constantine to address the Arian controversy, resulting in the Nicene Creed, which affirmed Jesus' divinity and established a foundation for Christian doctrine." Thus sayeth AI.
You are presupposing that there was a historical Jesus.
There wasn't, if anything he would have been named Joshua or Yahooshua.
The name itself, going back to the Greeks, was a simile of Dionysos (the name means son of god), his signet was IHS or Iota Eta Sigma.
Now the Greek eta (H) is both a consonant and a vowel, depending on it's placement at the beginning as in Helen it is pronounced as we pronounce the H. in the mididle of a word it is pronounced as an "ee" as in Jesus.
It is the same with the Roman I, both a vowel and a consonant. I as in Ijulius is pronounced somewhat like we pronounce the J, in the middle of the word it is soft and pronounced like the middle i in Iulius.
The early Jesus was brought into Latin as IHS to which the masculine us as in Augustus, or Spartacus was appended and thus you have Jesus. The rebel Jew would have been named Joshua, which means savior, and certainly not anointed as the messiah.
The messiah at that time was the anointed one, he would be anointed with oil blessed by the rebbe.
There is an interpolation, a fraud inserted in the works of Josephus, himself a Romanized Jew, he says in The Jewish Wars, that there was a man named Jesus the Christ or messiah. No Jew would have referred to a heretic of some one who claimed to be a messiah. This is believed to be an interpolation, probably by Piso.
The Greek had no word for a Messiah, but since a Messiah was the anointed one, and was anointed with oil, The early creators of this myth, used the Greek word for rubbing with olive oil, basically an oil message, Christos, see also Crisco.
Next lesson the origin and real meaning and purpose of the Chi Rho. (see the signet of Astarrte)
This whole story presupposes that there existed a Yahooshua (Joshua or Savior) and the whole retinue.
As Voltaire said, all of ancient history is naught more than popularly accepted Myths.
We talk of the Gallic wars as is they were actual events, when they were written by Julius Caesar himself.
But I guess we have no choice do we.
I still have two very thick and large volumes by Godfrey Higgins: Anacalypsis, Drawing aside the Siatic Veil. Tis eye opening., Written in the 19th Century, he tells of a place called Talmud in what is now Pashtun Pakistan.
And it turns out that Pashutun has so many Hebrew words that Israeli Rabbis claim that they are one of the missing 12 tribes. I don't ascribe to the 12 tribes myth., but linquistics show a connection between that part of the Indian continent and the Levant, they were, after all connected by the silk road
Haologroups haplogroups R1a1a-M17, C3-M217, J2-M172, and L-M20 are found among Mizrahi Jews, though their frequencies and specific lineages can vary between different Mizrahi communities are found among Mizrahi Jews, Afghanis and Pshtun's, though R1a-M17 is the most frequent.
Actually we had lots of false Mesiahs.
In the 19th Century, Brits claimed they were the missing tribes.
I am not an expert, but the body of James, Jesus' brother was discovered a few years ago.
As to DNA, there is a Native American tribe in Colorado that comes up the same as Ashkenazi, like me. https://www.jpost.com/jerusalem-report/exploring-the-connections-between-jews-and-native-americans-672667
There is a lot of Baloney. E.G. The Thirteenth Tribe, a 1976 book by Arthur Koestler advocating the Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry, the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the historical Judeans and Israelites of antiquity, but from Khazars, a Turkic people who allegedly mass-converted to Judaism. Gregory Huggins fits into that category.
In my novel Miami '90 I restate some stuff about Melungeons. Some have Jewish genes. Abe Lincoln, Elvis Presley, many others supposaed did also and were associated with Melungeons. They also have a high corelation to Turkey, so much so that the Turkish government honored the author of "The Melungeons."https://www.ataa.org/newsletter/ataa-remembers-dr-brent-kennedy-founder-of-the-melungeon-heritage-association/
It was a good thing that DNA was not available to the Nazis and Fascists in the Hitler'Franco era. I estimate half the Spanish population has some Moorish or Jewish genes. Same with the creole populations in the Americas.
I'm in a Spanish lit class. A lot of Spanish is filtered with Hebrew, Arabic, German (Visigoyhs), Greek and other influences. Cervantes, classic Spanish, is probably actually Ladino, with mostly Jewish references.
Interesting response. I am not a Jew, of course but know something about historical Judaism and it's origins., What I know can be disputatious and evoke defensive reactions and I want no part of contributing to the hate.
There is enough of that, the scapegoats are lined up, trans, Jews, queers, blacks, women and sadly too many who are scapegoated have embraced the scapegoaters.
I have read Arthur Koestlers the 13th Tribe and his argument is persuasive, and as a genetic genealogist I have had the opportunity to compare DNA of various cultures and ethnicities.
My YDNA is a sub, sub,sub, clade of R-Z93, is the ancestor of at least 4 descendant lineages known as R-Z94, R-YP5585, R-FGC82884, & R-BY226207.
Ashkenazim Jews who are R1a1 are R-Z94, I am subclade R-YP5585,
The clades arose in the region between the Black and Caspian sea.
Ashkenazim are of different genetic stock than Sephardim, but there is, because of interbreeding of populations DNA like the Cohanim DNA found in Ashkenazim and Sephardim
It is increasingly difficult to discuss this because of the thousands years history of Jewish oppression, be it Edward I or Ferdinand and Isabella, or the Catholic Church and Adolph Hitler
My maternal great grandmother was a German Jew name of Bena Schaum., she married a Catholic by name of Bowers
Anyway I read Koestlers book and all I can say is it computes, King Buhlan under pressure from Russian Orthodox and Islam, called the reps to his court, inquired of them their beliefs, found a common denominator Abraham and took the third way, and had rabbis come to his kingdom to teach his people and convert them.
I don't see a problem, but there is the thousand year problem and political sensitivity that stands in the way.
Arthur Koestler was himself a Jew, and he opens his book proclaiming that Hitlers persecution of the Ashkenazi was all wrong because they weren't Hebrews.
As regards British Israel, I know all about it,as I understand it Benjamin D'Israeli was behind it, he even had genealogical trees crafted to prove that Queen Victoria was descended from David. And as I said the Ferrar Fenton bible was the British Israel bible.
Actually Godfrey Higgins does not fit into the category you describe, He was a 19th Century explorer, his book is actually two books, large and all fine print documenting so much of the Indus Valley and it's culture.
As regards the native tribe in Colorado, having the same DNA. The thing in the telling is not the major haplogroup, but the SNP.
In my project there is a man from Pradesh India, that has the same DNA as me, R-YP5585, but there is a man from Iran and two from Kuwait who have the same subclade of YP5585 as me, which is R-YP5582, however my subclade appears, skipping 3,000 miles and years from the Caspian sea to Yorkshire England, because the current subclade of R-YP5582 that defines me is R-YP5578.
The natives of North America and South America share the same major hapologoups like C, but they have different subclades, indicating different origins, North American Indians share DNA with North Asians, but South American peoples share DNA with South east Asians, and this fact has the anthropologists and archaelogists all in a tither, because it refutes the Siberianlandbrdige hypothesis.
Hell they have even identified Mediterranean or Mideast DNA in the Paracus Skulls of Peru, (they have elongated skulls which the establishment claims were elongated by binding, yet they have a completely different seam where the parts of the skull join together.
Anway I share YDNA with Ashkkenazi Jews, but not with pure Sephardim.
Oh and my mitochondrial DNA which came down to me via the female line is J2a1b3, which is also prominent among the Ashkenazim.
Daniel I am very apprehensive about even broaching the subject, because it is fraught with identity and political problems, but I've never been one to run away from a problem or controversy. And I am certainly not an antisemite, though I don't like what Bibi, the Likkud and the Orthodox right are doing to Israel.
It was once more liberal and welcoming than America, but all of that has disappeared.,and not just because of Oct 7th,it started before, when the extreme right took over the government, just as has done here in America.
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx
Mark Twain " The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me that I suspect that mine is also".
"It ain't parts of the Bible I can't understand that bother me, It's the part's that I do understand"
"Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool".
(love Mark Twain)
"The devil can site scripture for his purpose." Shakespeare.
All that humor, wisdom, and talent! Twain was a philanthropist too---it's interesting to look at what he did.
Yes, he is a National Treasure!
I couldn't agree with you more. My husband is a recovering Catholic. I walked away from it 20 years ago. I've apologized to my kids for making them go to church. God started resembling a malignant narcissist psychopath to me. That book was written by many over a 2000 year period, 150 yrs after said events. You would think some things might of got lost in translation. It's like a book of personal projections. Its fucking batshit crazy. Why would a drug addict win the lottery and say he's blessed, but a child dies of cancer? Lost me there. Nothing says hate like Christian love. It's a predators' paradise.
Unfortunately there seems to be a primal belief in magic. Until we acknowledge this and address it we will continue to battle with ineffective tools.
We are in agreement. Superstition is the issue. Superstition, whether it is primal or not is a choice or one alternative which we must keep in its place. Superstition creates a desire for a deity, an authority, or a creator and gives the idea of god power and inordinate significance. Science has better and more neutral and satisfactory answers, which lack the certainty and security of a protective or domineering god but also lack the arbitrariness and brutality of cults. Unfortunately, even Christianity based on the New Testament and the Beatitudes and faith tends to devolve into fanaticism and extreme beliefs and has a need to save the world and spread through orthodoxy and ultimately force. Agnostics and atheists are democratic by definition.
Religion like everything else is developmental. I tire of people who carry around a concept of God and religion that they learned as children -- and assume that is what it is ultimately all about. There is a kind of acute intellectual Sloth here -that parades as condescending brilliance all the while looking like the universal arrogance of adolescent boys returning home after their first year in college. Assume they know everything but ultimately know almost nothing. There is more in heaven and earth Horatio ---- than what your limited experience has thus far revealed. Or, as one of my favorite rabbis stated, "the God you don't believe in, doesn't exist"................
I somehow missed all but the last couple of posts in this "thread" until just now. I am unable to process it all, too much of an "intellectual sloth" to go to all that trouble. What seems to be animating the discussion is a difference between religion and philosophy and a confusion between religion and spirituality, not to mention ritual and ordinary mythology. The common difficulty seems to be that formal religion relies on an authority and becomes an authoritarian system which brooks no dissent. In all cases, we create the deity we worship. That is nonsense or a tautology or some such insanity. Who has time for all of that? We have problems to solve and mysteries to unearth. Science and reason are more my cup of tea, or what was it that Socrates drank, hemlock juice. I am a descendant of Welsh people btw. Calhouns.