This just goes to show that the planter class and the Confederate leadership were treated far too leniently by the victorious Union. The planters should have been dispossessed, the leaders hanged, and the South should have been occupied militarily until its submission was beyond redemption. That none of this happened is due to the power …
This just goes to show that the planter class and the Confederate leadership were treated far too leniently by the victorious Union. The planters should have been dispossessed, the leaders hanged, and the South should have been occupied militarily until its submission was beyond redemption. That none of this happened is due to the power of the morbidly rich in the north who wanted Southern cotton and markets, and the racism pervasive in white peoples everywhere then, and in too many still. We cannot undo the past. We can try to prevent its triumph by voting blue in November. We must. Because the South need not “rise again”. It never left, biding its time. We must assure that time never comes again.
I write this as a descendant if Southerners on both sides, including ancestors who fought for the Confederacy and owned slaves. It is a heritage I abhor and have spent my life in part feebly trying to rectify, as my parents did at great personal and professional cost. But if we are being honest, our country as a whole bears the taint of slavery, on which our economy was built and on which in part it continues to rest in our prisons. Ghastly, disgusting—and American. Remember, remember, vote blue in November.
Mr. Shults, though I do not, as a Black Man in the United States, share your political partisanship (which would be illogical given history) on either side of the duopoly, I am deeply moved by your candor and intellectual honesty.
Tell me Rohn, on whose side of the political equation do you fall in 2024. There are only two sides, Trump or Biden, A vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump and I do not think that Trump has the best interests or any interests at all in the black community, just the opposite as do his MAGA cult. Is that what you want. This could lead to a race war if Trump wins,in that case you are out numbered and out gunned.
I see no alternative but to hold one's nose and vote Blue, as I will do, the alternative is unthinkable.
Your racist ass has to be kidding me. It, despite your ignorance, has always been a "race war." This so-called "nation" that you call yours is a DIRECT result of "race war" from my Alkebulanian to Choctaw ancestors. And each and every time you pine for my attention with your ignorant pontifications and overall racist bullshit, I am going to light your sorry butt up.
You Europeans are in trouble and you have one, and only one, sliver of hope and that is to learn to play nice.
Which, from where I sit, seems to be impossible (perhaps it is your genetics/eugenics).
Relinquish your veiled threats to me, because you have yet to understand you are not only outmanned (globally) you are soon to be outgunned (globally). Of course, being a hundred years old, you will probably not witness the justice that you have coming.
1 in 10 cannot, possibly, "exterminate" the other nine without destroying himself and the world's majority is, slowly but surely, understanding this and the MINORITY is about to catch hell, Jack. Because the world's majority has, finally, understood that force must be met with force. I can tell you, as a man that has been through many a kinetic engagement, no matter how much of a badass you are (or perceive yourself as) no one man can whip three...let alone nine.
Not just a race war Okie, though that is the plot in the Turner's Diaries. (I have read it), but war against atheist, liberals, anyone who is not a white Christian nationalist.
Roy, I also think we went too easy on the German Nazi billionaires! The Nazis are like cockroaches and ants, except I think the insects have more of a conscience!
Roy, the problem started with Lincoln's assassination and the accession of Andrew Johnson, a racist Democrat. He stalled and back pedaled the nascent reconstruction.
Restoring the Unreconstructed States Although Congressional Reconstruction brought most of the southern states back into the Union before 1868, Ulysses S. Grant still had to address the southern problem. Virginia, Mississippi, and Texas remained unreconstructed when he took office, and Republicans at the national level remained undecided about what to do about problems in Georgia regarding the seating of new black legislators. Reconstruction posed a challenge for Grant because of the goals he hoped to accomplish. Grant sought to protect the political and civil rights of blacks, but he also wanted to maintain a Republican presence in the South. Protecting blacks inherently would drive many whites away from the Republican Party; convincing whites to remain with the Republican Party would require abandoning the blacks to the mercy of the state governments. Moreover, to preserve the national Republican Party at a time when fighting slavery and rebellion no longer gave members a common cause likely would mean refocusing the party’s interests away from the South. Finally, policies adopted during Presidential and Congressional Reconstruction limited Grant’s options for dealing with problems in the southern states. https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/History/National_History/United_States_History_to_1877_(Locks_et_al.)/17%3A_Reconstruction/17.04%3A_Retreat_from_Reconstruction-_The_Grant_Years#:~:text=Reconstruction%20posed%20a%20challenge%20for,Republican%20presence%20in%20the%20South.
White Southerners had a paternalistic attitude towards "the coloreds". My grandmothr asked me in 1964, "why are them coloreds so upset, don't we treat them well enough", There wasn't a hateful bone in her body, in fact the only neighbors of he family 1870, 1880 were listed as "B" under race onthe census, and the family called the Mammy and Pappy which are terms of endearment that planters children used towards their house slaves.
We lived on what is now called soul food, collard greens, turnip greens, black eyed peas, hush puppies, and the chickens and pork that Pappy slaughtered and Mammy butchered., squirrel and corn meal breaded bream, fired crisp..yumm.
My ancestors stepped foot on Jamestown in 1620, 9th ggmother) and 1618 (8th great grandfather) there were no slaves then, not until 1661, but indentured servants of which he transported quite a few and got 50 acre patents for each servant.
The family grew some became planters, owned slaves, others failed and became dirt farmers.
My 5th ggf died before he could tutor his younger sons, thus they lacked the skills to enter into contracts (indentures) and were inspirational planters, never owned a slave until about 1830, when my 3rd ggf and his brother, a neighbor, owned at least one slave. Mine owned an old man over age 45, perhaps out of kindness less he starve. He was the last slave owner.
One of his sons, a great great uncle, abandoned his wife and three infant children and joined the Perry Rangers, was almost immediately transferred to the 28th Alabama and with 75 days was mortally wounded at Corinth to die in a confederate hospital.
A great great grandfather joyfully eft behind his wife and three infant children, to march up a dusty road to the county courthouse to enlist in the 37th (Bells) regiment and to die about 75 days later of a plague that swept through Camp Nelson, outside of Austin AR
A cousin was captured at Arkansas Post and died of Small Pox in Camp Douglas, outside of Chicago, another died on Missionary Ridge outside of Chattanooga, two were caught spying on the Federals outside of Vicksburg and were gun downed as theyu ran across a field. on their parents property.
Fools everyone, those that weren't conscripted like my great great grandfather and uncle, but I am actually glad for their outcome, had it not been the way that it happened, I would never have been born.
As regards the slave owning ancestors. No guilt here, because that is not me, not my history or my sentiments, nothing I can do to change the past.
I am, as you might be able to tell, a genetic genealogist, I do it for fun, an avocation,most I deal with need to find a "noble" or auspicious ancestor, me I don't care,I have plenty, but they are not me, I do not stand on their shoulders nor do I wallow under their feet.
Devils or angels, they are not me, and I do not believe in the bible and that crap about the sins of the father.
The number of ancestors whose descendants turn out to be crap are legion. Same with nondescript ancestors who left no record, and who have been magnificent people that contributed to our civilization and culture. Especially true of American Descendants of Slaves who are fortunate if they can identify an ancestor who lived in 1860
Roy: James Baldwin wrote that Faulkner “concede[d] the madness and moral wrongness of the South but at the same time he raise[d] it to the level of a mystique.” He insist[ed] that the white South can't be forced to integrate, and must be left to work through its moral dilemmas in its own time;..." IMHO Faulkner was prescient.
My dad and brother were Faulkner "scholars". One year they made the the front page of the Oxford (MS) Eagle with the caption "what are these Yankees doing here?" Ans. Studying the south.
Most of the south were not like you, Roy. Most like the Snopes family. The protagonist of the Bear, Benjy, told the tale twice told by an idiot, all "sound and fury" signifying nothing. Eventually, the south had to integrate despite "massive resistance."
'
Inside the south there was/is a "concurrent majority" People like you. The problem is they don't come forward.
Despite SEDM, economically the south are beggars with hat in hand. More people receive federal governmental benefits per square inch in red states. Besides all the stuff Thom enumerated, more SSI, food stamps, etc. School districts have more Chapter 1 students. https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-federal-government-2023
The true beneficiaries of that SSI funding are landlords, grocers, shopkeepers, all businesses.
Daniel I have had this argument many times, last time with a Floridian, that integration cannot be forced, it can't, but left alone over time, it will,gradually. He used the same argument over slavery, left alone the slaves would have been freed.
These are not valid counter arguments f an example of how minorities can be and will be exploited is Germany.,and the U.S.A in this century. The difference being that the U.S. has a cornucopia of scapegoats.
My counter argument to the slavery will be abandoned over time, was what about the millions in the interval, born into and die in slavery..
The only hope of escaping racism is total race mixing, what the right wing calls "mud people" that scares the shit out of them, but not me.,and at a deep psychological level, that is,I think, the real fear of the White nationalists.
On the other hand even if there is no racial distinctions something else will surface serve, like blue eyes in a brown eyed world.
I was stationed at Ft. Jackson and Gordon, and many years later heard cases in the south. When I first went to Greenwood, MS, there were no public accommodations to avoid forced desegregation. To eat, had to buy at the supermarket or go to a "club" which was completely segregated.
Today, quite the opposite. More desegregated than most of the north. They didn't integrate themselves. In order to get a lot of the federal funding, they had to comply.
I find as much racism in Pennsyltucky. Primarily "ethnics". They resented that strikebreakers were sent north as reverse freedomriders in the 60's. Nixon's southern strategy involved forced busing, forced hiring, to break the FDR Democratic coalition. The result was white flight, abandonment of cities at the same time that Republican tax policy killed off middle class main street businesses and killed commuter railroads.
I haven't been south since 1964, but know what you mean about racism in the north. But haven't lived north since 1956, the years in between in he military, overseas, and in the Pacific NW., four years in Texas but again in the military.
I did see racism in Philadelphia when a woman who feuded with her neighbor sold her house to a black family, and the neighborhood went up in arms, because it depreciated the value of their homes, that was 1953 or 1954
This just goes to show that the planter class and the Confederate leadership were treated far too leniently by the victorious Union. The planters should have been dispossessed, the leaders hanged, and the South should have been occupied militarily until its submission was beyond redemption. That none of this happened is due to the power of the morbidly rich in the north who wanted Southern cotton and markets, and the racism pervasive in white peoples everywhere then, and in too many still. We cannot undo the past. We can try to prevent its triumph by voting blue in November. We must. Because the South need not “rise again”. It never left, biding its time. We must assure that time never comes again.
I write this as a descendant if Southerners on both sides, including ancestors who fought for the Confederacy and owned slaves. It is a heritage I abhor and have spent my life in part feebly trying to rectify, as my parents did at great personal and professional cost. But if we are being honest, our country as a whole bears the taint of slavery, on which our economy was built and on which in part it continues to rest in our prisons. Ghastly, disgusting—and American. Remember, remember, vote blue in November.
Mr. Shults, though I do not, as a Black Man in the United States, share your political partisanship (which would be illogical given history) on either side of the duopoly, I am deeply moved by your candor and intellectual honesty.
Bravo!
Tell me Rohn, on whose side of the political equation do you fall in 2024. There are only two sides, Trump or Biden, A vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump and I do not think that Trump has the best interests or any interests at all in the black community, just the opposite as do his MAGA cult. Is that what you want. This could lead to a race war if Trump wins,in that case you are out numbered and out gunned.
I see no alternative but to hold one's nose and vote Blue, as I will do, the alternative is unthinkable.
"Race War?"
Your racist ass has to be kidding me. It, despite your ignorance, has always been a "race war." This so-called "nation" that you call yours is a DIRECT result of "race war" from my Alkebulanian to Choctaw ancestors. And each and every time you pine for my attention with your ignorant pontifications and overall racist bullshit, I am going to light your sorry butt up.
You Europeans are in trouble and you have one, and only one, sliver of hope and that is to learn to play nice.
Which, from where I sit, seems to be impossible (perhaps it is your genetics/eugenics).
Relinquish your veiled threats to me, because you have yet to understand you are not only outmanned (globally) you are soon to be outgunned (globally). Of course, being a hundred years old, you will probably not witness the justice that you have coming.
"... you are out numbered and out gunned."
True. Hence, so-called "Race War" is always, but Always, a euphemism for Racial Extermination, aka Black (Brown, Red, Yellow) Genocide.
Uh, can you say m-a-t-h?
1 in 10 cannot, possibly, "exterminate" the other nine without destroying himself and the world's majority is, slowly but surely, understanding this and the MINORITY is about to catch hell, Jack. Because the world's majority has, finally, understood that force must be met with force. I can tell you, as a man that has been through many a kinetic engagement, no matter how much of a badass you are (or perceive yourself as) no one man can whip three...let alone nine.
Not just a race war Okie, though that is the plot in the Turner's Diaries. (I have read it), but war against atheist, liberals, anyone who is not a white Christian nationalist.
Well, well, well. Klansman BillyBob has read "The Turner Diaries." Like Trump and Mein Kamph. No shit?
I bet BillyBob keeps it on its nightstand before it goes to bed each night and has the temerity to brag about it. What an effing surprise.
Roy, I also think we went too easy on the German Nazi billionaires! The Nazis are like cockroaches and ants, except I think the insects have more of a conscience!
Roy, the problem started with Lincoln's assassination and the accession of Andrew Johnson, a racist Democrat. He stalled and back pedaled the nascent reconstruction.
Restoring the Unreconstructed States Although Congressional Reconstruction brought most of the southern states back into the Union before 1868, Ulysses S. Grant still had to address the southern problem. Virginia, Mississippi, and Texas remained unreconstructed when he took office, and Republicans at the national level remained undecided about what to do about problems in Georgia regarding the seating of new black legislators. Reconstruction posed a challenge for Grant because of the goals he hoped to accomplish. Grant sought to protect the political and civil rights of blacks, but he also wanted to maintain a Republican presence in the South. Protecting blacks inherently would drive many whites away from the Republican Party; convincing whites to remain with the Republican Party would require abandoning the blacks to the mercy of the state governments. Moreover, to preserve the national Republican Party at a time when fighting slavery and rebellion no longer gave members a common cause likely would mean refocusing the party’s interests away from the South. Finally, policies adopted during Presidential and Congressional Reconstruction limited Grant’s options for dealing with problems in the southern states. https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/History/National_History/United_States_History_to_1877_(Locks_et_al.)/17%3A_Reconstruction/17.04%3A_Retreat_from_Reconstruction-_The_Grant_Years#:~:text=Reconstruction%20posed%20a%20challenge%20for,Republican%20presence%20in%20the%20South.
White Southerners had a paternalistic attitude towards "the coloreds". My grandmothr asked me in 1964, "why are them coloreds so upset, don't we treat them well enough", There wasn't a hateful bone in her body, in fact the only neighbors of he family 1870, 1880 were listed as "B" under race onthe census, and the family called the Mammy and Pappy which are terms of endearment that planters children used towards their house slaves.
We lived on what is now called soul food, collard greens, turnip greens, black eyed peas, hush puppies, and the chickens and pork that Pappy slaughtered and Mammy butchered., squirrel and corn meal breaded bream, fired crisp..yumm.
My ancestors stepped foot on Jamestown in 1620, 9th ggmother) and 1618 (8th great grandfather) there were no slaves then, not until 1661, but indentured servants of which he transported quite a few and got 50 acre patents for each servant.
The family grew some became planters, owned slaves, others failed and became dirt farmers.
My 5th ggf died before he could tutor his younger sons, thus they lacked the skills to enter into contracts (indentures) and were inspirational planters, never owned a slave until about 1830, when my 3rd ggf and his brother, a neighbor, owned at least one slave. Mine owned an old man over age 45, perhaps out of kindness less he starve. He was the last slave owner.
One of his sons, a great great uncle, abandoned his wife and three infant children and joined the Perry Rangers, was almost immediately transferred to the 28th Alabama and with 75 days was mortally wounded at Corinth to die in a confederate hospital.
A great great grandfather joyfully eft behind his wife and three infant children, to march up a dusty road to the county courthouse to enlist in the 37th (Bells) regiment and to die about 75 days later of a plague that swept through Camp Nelson, outside of Austin AR
A cousin was captured at Arkansas Post and died of Small Pox in Camp Douglas, outside of Chicago, another died on Missionary Ridge outside of Chattanooga, two were caught spying on the Federals outside of Vicksburg and were gun downed as theyu ran across a field. on their parents property.
Fools everyone, those that weren't conscripted like my great great grandfather and uncle, but I am actually glad for their outcome, had it not been the way that it happened, I would never have been born.
As regards the slave owning ancestors. No guilt here, because that is not me, not my history or my sentiments, nothing I can do to change the past.
I am, as you might be able to tell, a genetic genealogist, I do it for fun, an avocation,most I deal with need to find a "noble" or auspicious ancestor, me I don't care,I have plenty, but they are not me, I do not stand on their shoulders nor do I wallow under their feet.
Devils or angels, they are not me, and I do not believe in the bible and that crap about the sins of the father.
The number of ancestors whose descendants turn out to be crap are legion. Same with nondescript ancestors who left no record, and who have been magnificent people that contributed to our civilization and culture. Especially true of American Descendants of Slaves who are fortunate if they can identify an ancestor who lived in 1860
Roy: James Baldwin wrote that Faulkner “concede[d] the madness and moral wrongness of the South but at the same time he raise[d] it to the level of a mystique.” He insist[ed] that the white South can't be forced to integrate, and must be left to work through its moral dilemmas in its own time;..." IMHO Faulkner was prescient.
My dad and brother were Faulkner "scholars". One year they made the the front page of the Oxford (MS) Eagle with the caption "what are these Yankees doing here?" Ans. Studying the south.
Most of the south were not like you, Roy. Most like the Snopes family. The protagonist of the Bear, Benjy, told the tale twice told by an idiot, all "sound and fury" signifying nothing. Eventually, the south had to integrate despite "massive resistance."
'
Inside the south there was/is a "concurrent majority" People like you. The problem is they don't come forward.
Despite SEDM, economically the south are beggars with hat in hand. More people receive federal governmental benefits per square inch in red states. Besides all the stuff Thom enumerated, more SSI, food stamps, etc. School districts have more Chapter 1 students. https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-federal-government-2023
The true beneficiaries of that SSI funding are landlords, grocers, shopkeepers, all businesses.
Daniel I have had this argument many times, last time with a Floridian, that integration cannot be forced, it can't, but left alone over time, it will,gradually. He used the same argument over slavery, left alone the slaves would have been freed.
These are not valid counter arguments f an example of how minorities can be and will be exploited is Germany.,and the U.S.A in this century. The difference being that the U.S. has a cornucopia of scapegoats.
My counter argument to the slavery will be abandoned over time, was what about the millions in the interval, born into and die in slavery..
The only hope of escaping racism is total race mixing, what the right wing calls "mud people" that scares the shit out of them, but not me.,and at a deep psychological level, that is,I think, the real fear of the White nationalists.
On the other hand even if there is no racial distinctions something else will surface serve, like blue eyes in a brown eyed world.
I was stationed at Ft. Jackson and Gordon, and many years later heard cases in the south. When I first went to Greenwood, MS, there were no public accommodations to avoid forced desegregation. To eat, had to buy at the supermarket or go to a "club" which was completely segregated.
Today, quite the opposite. More desegregated than most of the north. They didn't integrate themselves. In order to get a lot of the federal funding, they had to comply.
I find as much racism in Pennsyltucky. Primarily "ethnics". They resented that strikebreakers were sent north as reverse freedomriders in the 60's. Nixon's southern strategy involved forced busing, forced hiring, to break the FDR Democratic coalition. The result was white flight, abandonment of cities at the same time that Republican tax policy killed off middle class main street businesses and killed commuter railroads.
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=hTLHxpUQ_B8
I haven't been south since 1964, but know what you mean about racism in the north. But haven't lived north since 1956, the years in between in he military, overseas, and in the Pacific NW., four years in Texas but again in the military.
I did see racism in Philadelphia when a woman who feuded with her neighbor sold her house to a black family, and the neighborhood went up in arms, because it depreciated the value of their homes, that was 1953 or 1954