Daniel, I think Gloria has said that. That Judaism has progressed, except that she, like myself, don't believe in the Tenach, which includes the Torah, aka Old Testament. We know the Torah is sacred to secular Jews. But I do not think you are a secular Iew Daniel.
And indeed the Judaism of today is not the Hebrew of 3,000 years ago. It ha…
Daniel, I think Gloria has said that. That Judaism has progressed, except that she, like myself, don't believe in the Tenach, which includes the Torah, aka Old Testament. We know the Torah is sacred to secular Jews. But I do not think you are a secular Iew Daniel.
And indeed the Judaism of today is not the Hebrew of 3,000 years ago. It has progressed, and in so doing has left behind the genocide, incest, rapine that is encapsulated in the TeNAcH.
Like a historical novel. By the time of the NT, they had been enslaved 3 times, ruled by many other countries, people had been acculturated by foreigners, like Greeks. The fall of the 2nd temple completely changed things. Priesthood was supplanted by rabbis, who do not really have any special standing.
What pisses me off the most is the notion that Jews aren't just like everyone else (or as Harry Golden once said, just like everyone else only more so).
I understand the feeling Daniel. I know the history all too well.
I know the history of the Jews all too well, better than even Jews, but I don't go there, because I am leery of stirring up things, especially anisemitism. Remember I am an atheist and my atheism is based on historical (not biblical or TeNACH) knowledge
As you know Judaism is not a race, it is not even a religion, or language it is an ethnicity based on tradition, and Rabbincical law, as well as the Israeli law of return declares matrilineal descent, not patriararchal, ironically that is genetically validated.
That is why anthropologists and geneticists prefer to trace migrations of whole populations,vs individuals via mitochondrial DNA. Passed down mother to daughter.
Arab on the other hand is not a race or a religion it is an ethnicity based on one thing and that is the native tongue of the speaker,
There are black Arabs, blond haired, blue eyed Arabs and every shade or mixture in between, that is why Elijah Mohammad and Malcom X became Muslimconverts it is trans racial.
But it is also extremely exclusionary, triumphalist and intolerant of kufr (kaffirs, indifels) apostates (murtad and irtidad), liberated women, and LGBT, regardless of country or place they reside.
That is why I don't get Irshad Manji, the Canadian born lesbian Muslim, evidently she is of the ilk of Martin Luther or other reformists who think that she can change of that Islam under pressure would change, then again Islam can accept lesbianism, but not homosexuality.
Harems were chock of full of women on women action, that was permitted, but man on woman was a beheading.
Muhammad, according to the Quran, saw a man come out of one of his wife's tent, and fearing that he had been cuckolded by a slave, told one of his men to dispatch the slave, But the slave climbed up a palm tree to retrieve dates, and the follower saw up his loin cloth, and shook his head, the slave had been neutered, and castrated was not just cutting off the testes, but like the Chinese, everything.
The President of Iran said that they don't have any gays, What he didn't say was that anyone caught man on man, was forced to undergo a sex change., at least the bottom, I am sure there is a lot of man on man in Islam, considering the great amount of sublimated sexual frustration.
Which is manifested in shahidi (martydom) and Jihad.
I will say this. If forced into choosing one of the three Abrahamic religions I would choose Hebrew, but please no Ashkenazi food, like Carp or Geflilte fish, Matzoh OK. My wife is Scandinavian and that have some kind gefilte like fish as well.caled lutefisk., it would heave all day.
When I lived in Pennsyltucky, I represented several churches, and represented people who were being excommunicated the Archdiocese or in annulments. I represented several groups in schisms.
I started in a Polish school because they took me early. The teachers in public school were Presbyterians. I was "Exhibit A" as the only Jewish kid for several years.
I am still a student, currently in a class at UM - "Cosmic Roots" history of religion.
Daniel there is one thing I would like your input on. I know you are familiar with Josephus, but other might not be. Josephus was a Roman Jew, or Jewish Roman, he was a scholar and wrote two books The Antiquities of the Jews and the Jewish Wars.
In the Antiquiities of the Jews, he mentions a Jesus Christ or a man they call Christ.
This is an interpolation (an insertment) by Piso it is assumed, because no Jew, no honest Jew would refer to this Yahooshua, Joshua, Jesus as the Messiah or Christ.
There strict requirements for a mashiach (messiah).
Christians constantly haul out Josephus as proof that Jesus existed, and time and again one has to deflate that claim, as Josephus would never, ever refer to this supposed Jesus as a messiah, annointed one or in Greek a Christ).
Propaganda written for Romans, not Jews. Same with the gospels, Paul, etc.
Also, messiahs were ubiquitous. Think Life of Brian.
Apparently James, brother of Jesus and Simon Peter were competitors, but were not literate, at least in Greek, which was the lengua franca of the period. James would have limited Christianity as a sect of Judaism.
There were sects, like Chosen Jews of India or China or Iraq or Ethiopia that had not been in Israel for in some cases, hundreds of years.
None of the three "brothers" ever existed. It is all myth. The so called gospels weren't written down until after Nicea.
I totally agree propaganda for the Romans. Jews couldn't beat them on the battle field, or with an insurgency, so best way to beat the enemy if from within. Romans were militaristic, so turn them into pacifists.
Interesting Daniel. I go deeper than religion. I am into roots and origins of peoples.
For instance I can trace my YDNA back to 1440 West Yorkshire England, but it is 4,000 miles and 3,450 years to what is now the steppes near the Caspian Sea, possibly what is now Northern Iran. YDNA Haplogroup R-Y5582, it branched off into R-YP5578) my branch and R-FT153709 which branched off about 2350 BCE, I have three very distant cousins that I know of so far, one is Iranian two are Kuwaiti.
Religions are artifacts if man, and as such their origin stories are man made.
Daniel, I think Gloria has said that. That Judaism has progressed, except that she, like myself, don't believe in the Tenach, which includes the Torah, aka Old Testament. We know the Torah is sacred to secular Jews. But I do not think you are a secular Iew Daniel.
And indeed the Judaism of today is not the Hebrew of 3,000 years ago. It has progressed, and in so doing has left behind the genocide, incest, rapine that is encapsulated in the TeNAcH.
Like a historical novel. By the time of the NT, they had been enslaved 3 times, ruled by many other countries, people had been acculturated by foreigners, like Greeks. The fall of the 2nd temple completely changed things. Priesthood was supplanted by rabbis, who do not really have any special standing.
What pisses me off the most is the notion that Jews aren't just like everyone else (or as Harry Golden once said, just like everyone else only more so).
I understand the feeling Daniel. I know the history all too well.
I know the history of the Jews all too well, better than even Jews, but I don't go there, because I am leery of stirring up things, especially anisemitism. Remember I am an atheist and my atheism is based on historical (not biblical or TeNACH) knowledge
As you know Judaism is not a race, it is not even a religion, or language it is an ethnicity based on tradition, and Rabbincical law, as well as the Israeli law of return declares matrilineal descent, not patriararchal, ironically that is genetically validated.
That is why anthropologists and geneticists prefer to trace migrations of whole populations,vs individuals via mitochondrial DNA. Passed down mother to daughter.
Arab on the other hand is not a race or a religion it is an ethnicity based on one thing and that is the native tongue of the speaker,
There are black Arabs, blond haired, blue eyed Arabs and every shade or mixture in between, that is why Elijah Mohammad and Malcom X became Muslimconverts it is trans racial.
But it is also extremely exclusionary, triumphalist and intolerant of kufr (kaffirs, indifels) apostates (murtad and irtidad), liberated women, and LGBT, regardless of country or place they reside.
That is why I don't get Irshad Manji, the Canadian born lesbian Muslim, evidently she is of the ilk of Martin Luther or other reformists who think that she can change of that Islam under pressure would change, then again Islam can accept lesbianism, but not homosexuality.
Harems were chock of full of women on women action, that was permitted, but man on woman was a beheading.
Muhammad, according to the Quran, saw a man come out of one of his wife's tent, and fearing that he had been cuckolded by a slave, told one of his men to dispatch the slave, But the slave climbed up a palm tree to retrieve dates, and the follower saw up his loin cloth, and shook his head, the slave had been neutered, and castrated was not just cutting off the testes, but like the Chinese, everything.
The President of Iran said that they don't have any gays, What he didn't say was that anyone caught man on man, was forced to undergo a sex change., at least the bottom, I am sure there is a lot of man on man in Islam, considering the great amount of sublimated sexual frustration.
Which is manifested in shahidi (martydom) and Jihad.
I will say this. If forced into choosing one of the three Abrahamic religions I would choose Hebrew, but please no Ashkenazi food, like Carp or Geflilte fish, Matzoh OK. My wife is Scandinavian and that have some kind gefilte like fish as well.caled lutefisk., it would heave all day.
When I lived in Pennsyltucky, I represented several churches, and represented people who were being excommunicated the Archdiocese or in annulments. I represented several groups in schisms.
I started in a Polish school because they took me early. The teachers in public school were Presbyterians. I was "Exhibit A" as the only Jewish kid for several years.
I am still a student, currently in a class at UM - "Cosmic Roots" history of religion.
Daniel there is one thing I would like your input on. I know you are familiar with Josephus, but other might not be. Josephus was a Roman Jew, or Jewish Roman, he was a scholar and wrote two books The Antiquities of the Jews and the Jewish Wars.
In the Antiquiities of the Jews, he mentions a Jesus Christ or a man they call Christ.
This is an interpolation (an insertment) by Piso it is assumed, because no Jew, no honest Jew would refer to this Yahooshua, Joshua, Jesus as the Messiah or Christ.
There strict requirements for a mashiach (messiah).
Christians constantly haul out Josephus as proof that Jesus existed, and time and again one has to deflate that claim, as Josephus would never, ever refer to this supposed Jesus as a messiah, annointed one or in Greek a Christ).
Propaganda written for Romans, not Jews. Same with the gospels, Paul, etc.
Also, messiahs were ubiquitous. Think Life of Brian.
Apparently James, brother of Jesus and Simon Peter were competitors, but were not literate, at least in Greek, which was the lengua franca of the period. James would have limited Christianity as a sect of Judaism.
There were sects, like Chosen Jews of India or China or Iraq or Ethiopia that had not been in Israel for in some cases, hundreds of years.
None of the three "brothers" ever existed. It is all myth. The so called gospels weren't written down until after Nicea.
I totally agree propaganda for the Romans. Jews couldn't beat them on the battle field, or with an insurgency, so best way to beat the enemy if from within. Romans were militaristic, so turn them into pacifists.
IMHO the Codex Sinaiticus, which included the Synoptic gospels. A/K/A Sinai Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels
Lots of apocrypha. The Gnostic Gospels.
Interesting Daniel. I go deeper than religion. I am into roots and origins of peoples.
For instance I can trace my YDNA back to 1440 West Yorkshire England, but it is 4,000 miles and 3,450 years to what is now the steppes near the Caspian Sea, possibly what is now Northern Iran. YDNA Haplogroup R-Y5582, it branched off into R-YP5578) my branch and R-FT153709 which branched off about 2350 BCE, I have three very distant cousins that I know of so far, one is Iranian two are Kuwaiti.
Religions are artifacts if man, and as such their origin stories are man made.