Sorry, but horses way badder than alcohol in creating NAm conflict. Suddenly exploded scale of territory and travel, suddenly tribes who barely knew about each other had a whole new "tradition:" horse-stealing raids! Hating each other for differences just like tribes of any kind since beginning of time everywhere. In far N. CA, a surveyi…
Sorry, but horses way badder than alcohol in creating NAm conflict. Suddenly exploded scale of territory and travel, suddenly tribes who barely knew about each other had a whole new "tradition:" horse-stealing raids! Hating each other for differences just like tribes of any kind since beginning of time everywhere. In far N. CA, a surveying expedition up the Pit River canyon was trying to recruit native porters around the turn of the 19th/20th C. (not even burro passable terrain!) Surveyors were surprised by NAm's reluctance. Finally one explained: There was a different tribe about four miles upriver, and they didn't even speak the same language, and if we run into them, they will kill us. Later on, a major cause of the famous "Modoc War" was that the Modocs and Klamaths were ancient enemies, and the whites put the Modocs on the same Res. as the much more numerous Klamaths. There are though to have been more than 3,000 distinct tribes in CA, and close to that many languages. So, small territories with localised survival strategies, and not so much with the horses.
For some reason, you seem to be emotionally invested in the idea that until white man's liquor the Native Americans were peace loving..
White man booze certainly brought its own problems and made a bad situation worse.
The fact is that they were killing each other. Talking of the Klamath. You should know that I live in the Pacific NW, and before the white man reached them, they were raiding each other, taking women with which to breed (genetic diversity) and, oh, killing each other.
Since you seem to be so interested in Native Americans, you would be interested in
The Red Record: The Wallam Olum: The Oldest Native North American History, by David McKutcheon. It seems that the oldest written record was that of the Leni Lenapi, besides recording the visit of John Cabot, they aso recorded their trek across America, including encountering and wiping out, what seems to be the Mound people of the Mississippi valley.
But I know how people and how the and how the mind works. When someone is emotionally invested in an idea, they will find all manners of rationalizations, excuses and distractions to justify and reinforce their beliefs. As I said on another post of Thom's, substack.
Beliefs are a powerful thing, part of, in fact the core of their identity.
And yes Europeans (white folk) committed wholesale genocide, and I know all about the Modocs and the extermination of California natives.
Did you know that California got it's name from a Queen (Califa) of what was then considered to be an island, as the central valley was once a lake,until an earthquake created a natural dam sealing off the lake from Baja California The early Spanish maps showed it as such.
It can be hard to follow the threads: You wanted this to go to Ginger, no? I was also pushing back against "the idea that until white man's liquor the Native Americans were peace loving.."
Running from North Carolina to Kentucky was a Cherokee warpath, that the was overlain on an animal trail, as were all migration paths.
Judge Richard Henderson had bright idea, Came up with a scheme. America was then a British colony, and the colonists were forbidden to settle beyond 100 miles of the Atlantic coast, as the Crown feared a war with the French and Indians, which eventually came thanks to the bungling of George Washington.
His scheme was the charade of the Cherokee selling him land, So he sruck a deal with a Cherokee chief, in which he would trade muskets and axes for land. Land that they didn’t own, and he knew they didn’t own. That Land was Kentucky. The event is recorded as the Treaty of Wauataga.
He then hired a ne’er do well, that had been in his court. This excuse for a man, abandoned his wife and younger children to go off on his great adventurers.
He didn’t break trail, but followed the Cherokee war path, he lost two sons, and eventually was evicted from the settlement that bore his name, Boonesboro, because he didn’t know how to survey and all of his surveys were invalidated with people losing their homes.
The point is that his explorations were along a Cherokee war path, a war path the Cherokee used to raid the Fox, Shawnee and other nations, and this is before the white man moved west beyond the Appalachians, save for the few hearty that had settled on
Sorry, but horses way badder than alcohol in creating NAm conflict. Suddenly exploded scale of territory and travel, suddenly tribes who barely knew about each other had a whole new "tradition:" horse-stealing raids! Hating each other for differences just like tribes of any kind since beginning of time everywhere. In far N. CA, a surveying expedition up the Pit River canyon was trying to recruit native porters around the turn of the 19th/20th C. (not even burro passable terrain!) Surveyors were surprised by NAm's reluctance. Finally one explained: There was a different tribe about four miles upriver, and they didn't even speak the same language, and if we run into them, they will kill us. Later on, a major cause of the famous "Modoc War" was that the Modocs and Klamaths were ancient enemies, and the whites put the Modocs on the same Res. as the much more numerous Klamaths. There are though to have been more than 3,000 distinct tribes in CA, and close to that many languages. So, small territories with localised survival strategies, and not so much with the horses.
For some reason, you seem to be emotionally invested in the idea that until white man's liquor the Native Americans were peace loving..
White man booze certainly brought its own problems and made a bad situation worse.
The fact is that they were killing each other. Talking of the Klamath. You should know that I live in the Pacific NW, and before the white man reached them, they were raiding each other, taking women with which to breed (genetic diversity) and, oh, killing each other.
Since you seem to be so interested in Native Americans, you would be interested in
The Red Record: The Wallam Olum: The Oldest Native North American History, by David McKutcheon. It seems that the oldest written record was that of the Leni Lenapi, besides recording the visit of John Cabot, they aso recorded their trek across America, including encountering and wiping out, what seems to be the Mound people of the Mississippi valley.
But I know how people and how the and how the mind works. When someone is emotionally invested in an idea, they will find all manners of rationalizations, excuses and distractions to justify and reinforce their beliefs. As I said on another post of Thom's, substack.
Beliefs are a powerful thing, part of, in fact the core of their identity.
And yes Europeans (white folk) committed wholesale genocide, and I know all about the Modocs and the extermination of California natives.
Did you know that California got it's name from a Queen (Califa) of what was then considered to be an island, as the central valley was once a lake,until an earthquake created a natural dam sealing off the lake from Baja California The early Spanish maps showed it as such.
It can be hard to follow the threads: You wanted this to go to Ginger, no? I was also pushing back against "the idea that until white man's liquor the Native Americans were peace loving.."
Here is another tidbit for you
Running from North Carolina to Kentucky was a Cherokee warpath, that the was overlain on an animal trail, as were all migration paths.
Judge Richard Henderson had bright idea, Came up with a scheme. America was then a British colony, and the colonists were forbidden to settle beyond 100 miles of the Atlantic coast, as the Crown feared a war with the French and Indians, which eventually came thanks to the bungling of George Washington.
His scheme was the charade of the Cherokee selling him land, So he sruck a deal with a Cherokee chief, in which he would trade muskets and axes for land. Land that they didn’t own, and he knew they didn’t own. That Land was Kentucky. The event is recorded as the Treaty of Wauataga.
He then hired a ne’er do well, that had been in his court. This excuse for a man, abandoned his wife and younger children to go off on his great adventurers.
He didn’t break trail, but followed the Cherokee war path, he lost two sons, and eventually was evicted from the settlement that bore his name, Boonesboro, because he didn’t know how to survey and all of his surveys were invalidated with people losing their homes.
The point is that his explorations were along a Cherokee war path, a war path the Cherokee used to raid the Fox, Shawnee and other nations, and this is before the white man moved west beyond the Appalachians, save for the few hearty that had settled on
The Wautaga River in 1772. These men subsequently defeated the Loyalist militia of Maj Ferguson on King’s Mountain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watauga_Association
Yup, we blame everyone and everything but ourselves. Best defense is an offense.