I don't know where he was when he said that brief 30 or 40 sec. thing on the stage with a few other folks standing to his left. He was not on the big CPAC stage. His speech on the red, white and blue bozo stage is the one I referred to.
As for "ending democracy", on one hand I find that, as I'm sure you do, a more twisted version of the d…
I don't know where he was when he said that brief 30 or 40 sec. thing on the stage with a few other folks standing to his left. He was not on the big CPAC stage. His speech on the red, white and blue bozo stage is the one I referred to.
As for "ending democracy", on one hand I find that, as I'm sure you do, a more twisted version of the deranged J Birch Society, etc. message from 60+ years ago to define the US as a republic and not a democracy. While they were technically, puerilely correct, their extension of that and their actual intent was oligarchy and racism which has has led the right into fascism. Of course, the US is set up to be a fusion of democracy and republic -- a democratically representative republic, a concept we have had great difficulty achieving and probably never really have. But where Posobiec and the fascists want to take this country is clearly not in the direction of govt. of the people, by the people, for the people. His claims and promises made after his introductory silliness were, if not deranged and quite possibly stochastic terrorism, clearly dog-whistle claptrap.
For full disclosure I was born 79 years ago in northern MN and now live in northwest WA. I have never followed Ayn Rand, Wm F. Buckley, Ty Hardin, Oliver North, etc. into the swamp now promoting violent treason. I am recognized by the federal court as a C.O. who is seriously challenged by what I see from the MAds (Make Americans die sooner). I am an officer and board member of a statewide group trying to expand the democratic features of our state and federal governments. I am quite pleased with what my native state has done over the past year and what my now home state has done over the past decade or so to advance democratic reform. Much remains to be done, however.
I find the last 50+ years in this country to have been a rolling attack, pursued by both parties to varying degrees, on our democratic, humane progress. I've witnessed other countries' ways of trying to better represent their people. Where once we led the world in democratic representation, we are now far behind pretty much all of our modern peers and many countries well behind us economically. (Thanks for nothing Bancroft Davis, Lewis Powell, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Antonin Scalia, Wm Rehnquist, Bill Clinton, etc.)
I take these fascists seriously when they are serious and revealing. I agree that we are facing a threat to self-govt., quite possibly the worst in our history. But I don't romanticize where we are now and have been for a few decades. I don't want to be dragged into dictatorship or further into corporatism and into full on fascism. I want to move this country far more authentically toward the democracy aspect of a democratic republic and into something at the local level far closer to full-blown democracy.
We have a lot in common. I am 85 and also live in the PNW. In fact I can drive 15 minutes, see Mt Rainier and the Olympics and do an about Face and see Mt Baker, then drive another 15 minutes and see Victoria BC from the beach.
I took exception to your comment that Pobosiec was being sarcastic and that is excusing his, and Trump;s promise to end democracy. Given all you say about yourself, I do not understand why you would engage in apologia.
I totally agree with everything else you say. In fact I have corrected the record by showing that the "founders" actually created a democratic Republic, and in fact Jefferson and Adams found the first political party and named it the Democratic Republican party.
It was for land owning men, not necessarily white, as there were free land owning black men at the time, and even in the south until the Nat Turner rebellion.
The constitution they created left the particulars of voting to the states, meaning the states could set the rules as to who was eligible to vote.
The first election was land owning white men, mostly planters in the south, then the parties in power in the several states, realized that they could benefit from enfranchising all men, property owning or not, and that idea caught on and spread to all states. Not even considered were women.
It took four amendments, the 15th,17th,19th and 26th to democratize voting and America.
There were also black slave owning planters, most in S.C. and Louisiana until the Nat Turner rebellion, that so scared the southern white planters that they re enslaved the blacks.
Another tidbit. Marx, whose partner Frederick Engels had inherited a textile mill, wrote scathing letters to the editor of southern papers, mostly Charleston, imploring them to free the slaves and hire them back at market wages.
Reason was that American cotton was too expensive and cut into Engels profits, as consequence Engels resorted to buying the cheaper and inferior Egyptian cotton.
What Marx didn't know was that the southern elite, the planters and upper middle class,
remembered all too well the Nat Turner Rebellion, and the idea of free blacks, scared the hell out of them, and rightfully so, guilty consciences for breaking up families, treating people like animals, using, abusing and raping them.
The south would never have freed the slaves.
By the way way my 3rd great grandfather was drafted into Owens Company, 3rd Regiment, 2nd draft Georgia infantry as part of Morgan County's slave patrol (militia)
...well behind us economically. (Thanks for nothing Bancroft Davis, Lewis Powell, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Antonin Scalia, Wm Rehnquist, Bill Clinton, etc.)
I take these fascists seriously when they are serious and revealing. I agree that we are facing a threat to self-govt., quite possibly the worst in our history. But I don't romanticize where we are now and have been for a few decades. I don't want to be dragged into dictatorship or further into corporatism and into full on fascism. I want to move this country far more authentically toward the democracy aspect of a democratic republic and into something at the local level far closer to full-blown democracy.
At the root, the family, democracy doesn't work. Children's brains aren't well developed, they are impulsive and emotional creatures, defiant as well, and what they want, they want now. And frankly parents in a lot of cases are little better, for the kids follow the parents example.
At the local level, idealistically, democracy works best, but I know first hand, that local politics is corrupted by money, influence and ideology. (Especially the likes of school boards)
Look at all of the countries that claim to be, or held to be, democratic because they have voting. Russia for example, Hungary, Turkey another., and Africa, well there is hardly any true democracies in Africa, though all have voting. If one side doesn't like the results, well there is the coup, like that attempted on Jan 6th.
Yet it is an admirable goal, but I fear that to save Democracy, sometimes a heavy hand is needed. A heavy hand that will back off, because it is not driven by ego or a lust for power.
The example I can think of is our 1st President, offered a crown he refused.
Washington's voluntary decision to decline a third term was also seen as a safeguard against the type of tyrannical power yielded by the British crown during the Colonial era.
Roosevelt was elected four times, and thank god, he saved America from itself (big business, finance, wall street, the economic royalists he talked about), and made decisions that whipped the fascist ass of Japan and Germany., unlike Biden he was not a compromiser, and didn't fold when criticized. a polio cripple with a backbone of steel, and the Republicans (Plutocrats) still hate him.
I don't know where he was when he said that brief 30 or 40 sec. thing on the stage with a few other folks standing to his left. He was not on the big CPAC stage. His speech on the red, white and blue bozo stage is the one I referred to.
As for "ending democracy", on one hand I find that, as I'm sure you do, a more twisted version of the deranged J Birch Society, etc. message from 60+ years ago to define the US as a republic and not a democracy. While they were technically, puerilely correct, their extension of that and their actual intent was oligarchy and racism which has has led the right into fascism. Of course, the US is set up to be a fusion of democracy and republic -- a democratically representative republic, a concept we have had great difficulty achieving and probably never really have. But where Posobiec and the fascists want to take this country is clearly not in the direction of govt. of the people, by the people, for the people. His claims and promises made after his introductory silliness were, if not deranged and quite possibly stochastic terrorism, clearly dog-whistle claptrap.
For full disclosure I was born 79 years ago in northern MN and now live in northwest WA. I have never followed Ayn Rand, Wm F. Buckley, Ty Hardin, Oliver North, etc. into the swamp now promoting violent treason. I am recognized by the federal court as a C.O. who is seriously challenged by what I see from the MAds (Make Americans die sooner). I am an officer and board member of a statewide group trying to expand the democratic features of our state and federal governments. I am quite pleased with what my native state has done over the past year and what my now home state has done over the past decade or so to advance democratic reform. Much remains to be done, however.
I find the last 50+ years in this country to have been a rolling attack, pursued by both parties to varying degrees, on our democratic, humane progress. I've witnessed other countries' ways of trying to better represent their people. Where once we led the world in democratic representation, we are now far behind pretty much all of our modern peers and many countries well behind us economically. (Thanks for nothing Bancroft Davis, Lewis Powell, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Antonin Scalia, Wm Rehnquist, Bill Clinton, etc.)
I take these fascists seriously when they are serious and revealing. I agree that we are facing a threat to self-govt., quite possibly the worst in our history. But I don't romanticize where we are now and have been for a few decades. I don't want to be dragged into dictatorship or further into corporatism and into full on fascism. I want to move this country far more authentically toward the democracy aspect of a democratic republic and into something at the local level far closer to full-blown democracy.
We have a lot in common. I am 85 and also live in the PNW. In fact I can drive 15 minutes, see Mt Rainier and the Olympics and do an about Face and see Mt Baker, then drive another 15 minutes and see Victoria BC from the beach.
I took exception to your comment that Pobosiec was being sarcastic and that is excusing his, and Trump;s promise to end democracy. Given all you say about yourself, I do not understand why you would engage in apologia.
I totally agree with everything else you say. In fact I have corrected the record by showing that the "founders" actually created a democratic Republic, and in fact Jefferson and Adams found the first political party and named it the Democratic Republican party.
It was for land owning men, not necessarily white, as there were free land owning black men at the time, and even in the south until the Nat Turner rebellion.
The constitution they created left the particulars of voting to the states, meaning the states could set the rules as to who was eligible to vote.
The first election was land owning white men, mostly planters in the south, then the parties in power in the several states, realized that they could benefit from enfranchising all men, property owning or not, and that idea caught on and spread to all states. Not even considered were women.
It took four amendments, the 15th,17th,19th and 26th to democratize voting and America.
There were also black slave owning planters, most in S.C. and Louisiana until the Nat Turner rebellion, that so scared the southern white planters that they re enslaved the blacks.
Another tidbit. Marx, whose partner Frederick Engels had inherited a textile mill, wrote scathing letters to the editor of southern papers, mostly Charleston, imploring them to free the slaves and hire them back at market wages.
Reason was that American cotton was too expensive and cut into Engels profits, as consequence Engels resorted to buying the cheaper and inferior Egyptian cotton.
What Marx didn't know was that the southern elite, the planters and upper middle class,
remembered all too well the Nat Turner Rebellion, and the idea of free blacks, scared the hell out of them, and rightfully so, guilty consciences for breaking up families, treating people like animals, using, abusing and raping them.
The south would never have freed the slaves.
By the way way my 3rd great grandfather was drafted into Owens Company, 3rd Regiment, 2nd draft Georgia infantry as part of Morgan County's slave patrol (militia)
...well behind us economically. (Thanks for nothing Bancroft Davis, Lewis Powell, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Antonin Scalia, Wm Rehnquist, Bill Clinton, etc.)
I take these fascists seriously when they are serious and revealing. I agree that we are facing a threat to self-govt., quite possibly the worst in our history. But I don't romanticize where we are now and have been for a few decades. I don't want to be dragged into dictatorship or further into corporatism and into full on fascism. I want to move this country far more authentically toward the democracy aspect of a democratic republic and into something at the local level far closer to full-blown democracy.
The concept of democracy is a tough one.
At the root, the family, democracy doesn't work. Children's brains aren't well developed, they are impulsive and emotional creatures, defiant as well, and what they want, they want now. And frankly parents in a lot of cases are little better, for the kids follow the parents example.
At the local level, idealistically, democracy works best, but I know first hand, that local politics is corrupted by money, influence and ideology. (Especially the likes of school boards)
Look at all of the countries that claim to be, or held to be, democratic because they have voting. Russia for example, Hungary, Turkey another., and Africa, well there is hardly any true democracies in Africa, though all have voting. If one side doesn't like the results, well there is the coup, like that attempted on Jan 6th.
Yet it is an admirable goal, but I fear that to save Democracy, sometimes a heavy hand is needed. A heavy hand that will back off, because it is not driven by ego or a lust for power.
The example I can think of is our 1st President, offered a crown he refused.
Washington's voluntary decision to decline a third term was also seen as a safeguard against the type of tyrannical power yielded by the British crown during the Colonial era.
Roosevelt was elected four times, and thank god, he saved America from itself (big business, finance, wall street, the economic royalists he talked about), and made decisions that whipped the fascist ass of Japan and Germany., unlike Biden he was not a compromiser, and didn't fold when criticized. a polio cripple with a backbone of steel, and the Republicans (Plutocrats) still hate him.