I agree with everything you predict except the GOP privatizing social security. I think they will just end it? They will claim there's no money left in it because the nation is $30 trillion in debt and there's no more money for social programs. They may try to keep food stamps for the women with children, because they need population growth for more soldiers,slaves and servants.
It is time for Biden to replace Garland and start prosecuting the 147 GOP seditionists. Their goal is to loot the treasury and act like God's while spouting stupidity and insanity.
Bob they won't end social security there is billions in the trust fund, what they will do is privatize social security, contract it out, that puts the trust fund in the hands of the contractor, as well as the FICA payments which they will use to gamble on the stock market
Wy past time for Biden to fire Garland and other Trump moles inside the government, but he won't.. This is one time I wish he had some of Trump's audaciousness.
William, with their love of the trickle down theory, they will crash the stock market and loot the social security trust fund that way. When the poor have no money, that is when the feces will hit the fan. Just a different way of laundering our money. It will take them a little longer though so we can keep eating food for a couple more months to maybe a couple more years longer? The GOP is very good at laundering money. I will not be surprised whether they end social security benefits to get revenge on FDR or if they put it in the stock market and lose it that way. Either way they get the cash.
If you know that the stock market is going to drop precipitously, you find a way to short stocks to profit on the downturn. That's not a sure thing once the crash is underway, so look for a rise in short interest as a hint that something sinister is afoot.
Biden and the Democrats are afraid of being accused of weaponizing DOJ. And they need a tin ear, because the Republicans and Trump don't give a rats ass.
The Republicans walk around spraying 5th Avenue with bullets, and Democrats are afraid of throwing a fire cracker, no wonder we are losing our democracy.
yes that for sure. but changing the head of the DOJ to one who isn't a sleeper agent for trump would be actually just good freakin governance. I don't really see that as a reason Biden did that because it would make him a fool. Obama had valid reasons for taking the high road at all turns, it's too bad bc he could have changed a lot by motivating activism across the country, but given how racist this country is and the need to exist blemish free in history, it's just unfortunate timing.
Governing is not for the timid. Obama did nothing for the blacks, probably for the reason you stated, because our country is so racist, but that is not a reason or an excuse, all he did was to enbable racism, make things actually worse, that beer summit with that racist cop and Dr Louis Henry Gates Jr is an example. Obama was guarding his legacy, that is for sure, but enabled racism.
Taking the high road is for losers.
As the Scottish diddy goes, Ye take the high road and I'll take the low road and I'll be in Scotland afore ye.
Republicans, though a minority, didn't get where they are by taking the high road
Even a fool knows that to be successful you have to emulate success.
I wouldn’t say Obama did nothing for blacks- he actually did a lot of small things that make a huge difference to minorities such as getting rid of those pay day cash loan places- the CFPB (when it was funded), he also tried to pass paid leave for all, exec orders for what he could re min wage & fam leave, expanded fam tax credits, health insurance expanded to cover more families, but mostly he spent 8 years fighting to protect what safety net we have. Obama had a lot of hopes and dreams but was kept from doing 98% of it- at least he got the beginnings of health care for all started. But honestly, as said above, he finished last bc he believed he had to meet a standard for the history books more than he needed to do what it would have taken to fight the republicans.
And from Heather Cox Richardson's column yesterday:" How religion and authoritarianism have come together in modern America was on display Thursday, when right-wing activist Jack Posobiec opened this weekend’s conference of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) outside Washington, D.C., with the words: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here.” He held up a cross necklace and continued: “After we burn that swamp to the ground, we will establish the new American republic on its ashes, and our first order of business will be righteous retribution for those who betrayed America.”
Thank you for including this, Rob! My blood ran cold when I read that Thursday. "Welcome to the end of democracy." These fascists are deadly serious. They are hellbent on eradicating the 20th century, over 115 years of progress and evolution in the U.S.
Theocrats are happily marrying authoritarians.
I worry that too many people simply cannot think or reason for themselves anymore, that they are basically too indolent and uncaring as long as they have their various screen entertainments. "Bread and circuses for the masses"--wait, hold the bread. Unless it's consecrated...
I am glad I'm 71 and well past the age of childbearing--I never wanted to be a baby factory! You can bet they will outlaw contraception, too.
Linda, I'm also 71 and agree with what you say. Here's hoping the insane rulings like the recent one in "Talibama" will motivate Independents and non-voting Democrats all over the country, but especially in swing states to get off their butts in November to save Democracy. And if you don't get Robert Hubbell's daily newsletter, I'd recommend checking it out. He typically puts a positive spin on recent events, and gives ways individuals can act to make a difference.
We have got to get rid of the Republican party. Even if Nikki Haley gets elected, they will still try to overthrow democracy. They are no longer a political party, but they are a terrorist organization. This is why it is imperative that we start prosecuting 147 seditionist as soon as possible! If Biden fails to replace Garland, I will have to consider him an accomplice. So far he has failed for over 3 years to protect democracy! I have to vote democratic socialism, so I will vote for Biden. A vote for anyone else will be a vote for a dictatorship led by lying psychopaths.
Correct, and I agree re: Garland. What a disappointment. And while Biden may not be the optimal choice, he's the only one. And despite all the obstruction, he has managed to get some positive initiatives through.
Re: the oligarchs, not sure they're so proud of him. Why do the Koch Bros. Musk, and others for example, so strongly support the other side? As for taking care of democracy, I think that's a Justice Dept. issue. The Repugs are constantly claiming that Biden is directing their investigations from the White House, which needs to be independent and "hands off" when it comes to prosecuting the 1/6 terrorists and the Orange Menace. Maybe that's why Biden hasn't replaced Garland. The optics wouldn't look good.
An inside story we probably won't ever know: Garland's "bad beat" consolation prize, or cowardly triangulation? You would think somebody consulting would have understood the fundamental truth that appeasement only encourages the bully. You'd think.....
no, he's connected to the Trump's and actually has protected Trump all along. a wolf in sheep's clothing who should have been replaced after the first year of zero action against anyone in government involved with the election heist attempt. I don't understand why Biden didn't fire him. the lack of accountability for anyone high in government since who knows when - Nixon? is one reason we are here today.
Me too. Will turn 71 on International Women's Day this year. (I love that coincidence!) Never had much instinct to reproduce, with respect to sisters who seem to feel it strongly. The CPAC messaging has tried to pooh-pooh those comments as tongue in cheek. I saw the clip, and the dude looked real to me, not to mention the audience he was catering to, and not expecting somebody to spread it around. Only after being busted, haha, just a joke. Yeah, right. I am curious: what event did you date 115 years from? I keep going back to women getting the vote: 1920, amazing enough.
Gosh, I can’t remember where I picked up “115 years” now. Robert Reich? Another Thom Hartmann post? I’m sorry that the source and reason are eluding me. Four states had given women the right to vote by or in 1909. I regret that I have had to restart my computer and have lost my breadcrumb trail.
Didn't mean to put you on the spot. The date of 1920 for women's suffrage just fascinates me, because it is so recent! Also, that it was fifty years after male African-descended at least technically, constitutionally got the vote. Suddenly historical dates seem so relevant: Alito citing a British witch-burning judge from the 1670's:" Hale once wrote a long letter to his grandchildren, dispensing life advice, in which he veered into a screed against women, describing them as “chargeable unprofitable people” who “know the ready way to consume an estate, and to ruin a family quickly.” Hale particularly despaired of the changes he saw in young women, writing, “And now the world is altered: young gentlewomen learn to be bold” and “talk loud.” https://www.propublica.org/article/abortion-roe-wade-alito-scotus-hale
Then here comes the Comstock Act hello 1873! The book : "Other Powers" by Goldsmith fills out backstory on that. But how many outside us Hartmannistas have a clue about any of that?
That Jack Posobiec speech was sarcasm and an attack on progressives and the "liberal" media. At least that is how he played it, not as a serious plan for "conservatives". However, the question is, how far will this crew of wingers and fascists actually go to destroy democracy? And will they succeed? If they control DC, what will the media do while the Republicans are screwing over the voters, We the People? What will We the People do in response?
William, It has been the wingers and #45, himself, who have tried to gloss over his diatribes as sarcasm or comedy, which they clearly were not. The corporate media has tried to whitewash his rants, playing the bothsidesism game. But that is not the same as the way the moron Posobiec's speech started out. You can see his speech on YouTube. His remarks clearly were sarcasm. And it was not the opening speech. He spoke on Friday, not Thursday. Mischaracterizing ANYONE'S comments, as Heather Cox Richardson did, in any direction is not ethical.
That being said, these insurrectionists obviously need to be profoundly disappointed come November as their preferred fascists need to be defeated, overwhelmingly!
Apparently, defeating them at the polls is NOT how this cadre of Republican schemers will be undone! They are going to use procedure to challenge enough polls to stay in anyway {they already did it once in Florida, using a slightly different scheme of throwing out good votes}.
“ I vehemently disagree, Pobosiec and Trump are deadly serious.”
Trump has stated that he will be “Dictator for a Day” - that is his dog whistle on how he will find cause to invoke a National Emergency and then use the Presidential Emergency Actions Documents to enforce authoritarian rule and stat in office as Liz Cheney pointed out forever.
Heather Cox Richardson said: " How religion and authoritarianism have come together in modern America was on display Thursday, when right-wing activist Jack Posobiec opened this weekend’s conference of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) outside Washington, D.C., with the words: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here.” He held up a cross necklace and continued: “After we burn that swamp to the ground, we will establish the new American republic on its ashes, and our first order of business will be righteous retribution for those who betrayed America.”
What in that statement is mischaracterization. and Mind you think carefully of what you say, as she has a lot of fans and followers on substack, including Thom's and Robert Reich's substack.
IMO, and apparently that of others, her depiction was spot on. So how did she mischaracterize Pobosiec.? That we can discuss.
For full disclosure. I'm almost 85, and abour 40 years ago I was to the right of Pobosiec, I sat down one day to be interviewed for Aryan Nations. I never joined, common sense prevailed and I relocated to Santa Cruz, CA, found new friends, new insight and had ,my own awakening.
Point is I've been there, done that and Know what evil lurks in the heart and minds of men.
What CAN the People do in response? We cannot have a war against ourselves and our communities … We cannot win in a hot fight against our government in the hands of these people.
We cannot turn this around after they pull it off — not easily and not safely.
When someone tells you who they are and what the intend, you'd be foolish not to believe them. This was not sarcasm, it was truly what they want, they see the Constitution and democracy as barriers to their total control via a Christian theocracy.
WHY ISN'T THIS A DAILY, LONG RUNNING CAMPAIGN AD BY THE DEMOCRATS? IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. As Thom and many listeners have pointed out on his show, the Democrats are lame and ineffectual when it comes to hard hitting campaign ads. To their detriment.
Holy fuck! I never realized that the Speaker can refuse to swear in duly elected House members for no specific reason other than his own political needs.
Don't worry, William. This "over the top" secret plan is based on a faulty premise, based on a complete misunderstanding of how the House is organized. I'm surprised Thom didn't research this better. It just can't happen that way.
January 3, 2025, begins a new session of Congress, the 119th. The terms of all Members of the 118th Congress will have expired, and the previous Speaker has no more authority than any other Member-elect.
The first order of business is the election of a new Speaker, followed by the swearing-in of the entire membership. The presiding officer for the election of the Speaker is the Clerk. (Remember the marathon of ballots to elect Kevin McCarthy in January 2022? Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not preside over that.) Only after the new Speaker is elected and all Members have been sworn-in can anything be done in the House.
Thanks Thom. A conspiracy, also known as a plot, is a secret plan or agreement between people (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose
1. We need to expand our base. We can sweep. https://www.fieldteam6.org/ If we swamp them, no basis for House intervention.
2. 14th Amendment section 3 remains viable against insurrectionists. Potentially 145 sitting House members, including Maga Mike have exposure for Jan 6, 2021.
3. Biden is/would be the elected President. Garland can bring actions for obstruction of justice an/or to stop the pretext that would be the predicate to the vice president to send the election to the house. Elise Stefanik and Thomas Massie have may have established a conspiracy. Sounds like extortion. 18 U.S.C. § 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree to injure, threaten, or intimidate a person in the United States in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured by the a form of Constitution or laws of the United States or because of his or her having exercised such a right.
Also 18 U.S. Code § 610 - Coercion of political activity
It shall be unlawful for any person to intimidate, threaten, command, or coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, command, or coerce, any employee of the Federal Government as defined in section 7322(1) of title 5, United States Code, to engage in, or not to engage in, any political activity, including, but not limited to, voting or refusing to vote for any candidate or measure in any election, making or refusing to make any political contribution, or working or refusing to work on behalf of any candidate. Any person who violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(
4.. Several sitting House members requested a pardon and most probably are eyewitnesses to the January 6 case. If Garland and the FBI will not investigate them, three (3) civil cases remain viable and the perps can be deposed. If criminality is exposed, they can be arrested.
The new pres. will be certified on Jan 6, 2025. Jan 2024 was last month. MAGA Mike led the group voting to NOT certify Biden's election in Jan 2021, not 2020
W Bush also lost the popular vote in FL, despite the dishonest voter purge by Katherine Harris and the butterfly ballot, but the SCOTUS prevented a nonpartisan recount which would have found that Gore won by a little over 100 votes. Corporate media buried the story on the back pages and even then in the final paragraphs.
Republicans have already proven that they can steal presidential elections via treason. Nixon did it in '68. Reagan did it in '80. And they've proven, like Dixiecrats and machine Democrats before them, that they can steal local and state elections using all sorts of election rigging. But few of those posed the existential threat the fascist Republican leaders pose this year.
All of this highlights the widespread lemming-like stampede of voters obediently following party leaders on election day. Will Republican voters who say they won't vote for Trump follow through, or will they join the mindless stampede over the cliff?
Your last paragraph poses the hold your nose vote question. For those Republicans and Republican primary voting Independents surveyed after voting that said they wouldn’t support TFG in November, much goes on inside of the voting booth that’s never mentioned truthfully afterwards. Their choice is no vote, hold nose and still vote TFG, or hold nose and vote Biden. My opinion is the Republican leaning Independents will hold nose and vote Biden, the Republicans that said they won’t will vote TFG.
If someone telegraphs a punch; by, say, dropping their balled-up fist behind them, arm-locked straight down, does it not make sense, esp. if they've hit you before and hurt you, assaulted you on Jan 6th; does it not make sense for you to friggin' DUCK !!!
The GOP? It's as if the Dems are in a long running street fight with a criminally insane gang. A group who believe in neither law nor order. And the Dems allow the insane GOP clowns to ambush and pummel them daily.
So, I say unto Democrats:
Figuratively: Fight like no one is watching. [But the whole world is watching with fear and loathing.]
There's no such thing as sarcasm with those fascists. When they say something outrageous like that, believe it. He may have tried to play it as sarcasm to appease Progressives and walk it back, but the far right that listens to him takes truly believes it.
If that scenario comes to pass, we are finished as a country. There will be enough members of the majority radicalized by such a coup, for that is what it will be, legal or not, that violence is inevitable. A very un-civil war will likely ensue, and this nation’s enemies will be overcome with delight as we destroy ourselves. I may not live to see the election, being of dubious health and nearing age 76, but I will be sure our youngest daughter and grandson have the paperwork and resources to leave this country if your scenario becomes a reality. I pray your prediction is wrong.
After the civil war dies down, in a week to 15 years? I expect the GOP will confiscate the magas guns with the military and police. For now they are just useful idiots.
The only way to put an end to GOP wet dreams is a base campaign of 3 or 4 economic issues that low information Dem voters come out and vote. This did not happen in 2022 and so we lost the house. In truth low information voters do not believe that the GOP can take us down as a democracy. They think the Dems are over hyping the threat to get votes and will ignore such statements. And the Dems can have 3 or 4 economic issues in the campaign but not hear the message enough to know the promises exist. They can and will not vote if the daily campaign does not daily repeat the message strong enough. Unless the promises are not daily repeated sufficiently to allow the base voters to know what those promises are. Only when everybody knows what those economic issues are can we find salvation for democracy for us and around the world.
I like running the idea of running 30 second commercials on their favorite antenna TV channels. Asking them if a dictator can take their guns or hire immigrants or abolish the minimum wage or harvest their organs or take their social security...
Would Trump and the
billionaires, prefer to hire four immigrants for less money than an American citizen?
What Thom heard from GOP insiderers is that votes don't matter, Mike Johnson will use his power to refuse to seat Democrat winners of the house, and then use his position to nullify the election, and throw it to the states, and there are more red states than blue state.
Since Biden is the exec and has power over DOJ, one would hope that Biden doesn't let Johnson get away with his subversive attempt, but Biden will sit by like a stone wall and let Democracy melt into a theocratic dictatorship.
I agree with Thom’s assessment for the potential for obstruction and chaos come January 3 - 6, 2025 and I too have read recent similar articles. There is one part of the argument however which leaves me perplexed and questioning the legality, both under the Constitution, Federal law, and House rules, by which Speaker Johnson could pull off such a scenario.
The term of ALL members of the biennial Congress ENDS at noon, January 3 at which time the term of the new biennial Congress begins. The first duty of the House is the swearing in of the Speaker upon his/her election by the dean of the United States House of Representatives, the chamber's longest-serving member. (The current dean is Hal Rogers, a Republican from Kentucky, who has served in the House since 1981 and is running for reelection.). Speaker Johnson is a member of the current House of the current biennial Congress. (Note, See first sentence of this paragraph). Traditionally, the majority party of the incoming biennial Congress nominates a candidate for Speaker and given that party’s majority is voted Speaker. For the moment for this discussion, assume the Republican chaos of January 2025 is an anomaly. After a Speaker is elected, federal law states the Speaker swears in the House members in mass. That’s ALL the members at the start of the biennial session.
I cannot find any reference in the Constitution, Federal law, House rules, or several online sources which definitively states only incumbent returning House members elect the Speaker nor anything that definitively states the Speaker of the former biennial House is the de facto continuing Speaker absent election by the new House.
I therefore question the legitimacy of, and the rationale for debate, the continuation of Johnson’s legitimate claim to Speakership absent official election past noon on January 3, especially if the Democrats regain the majority or under the scenario due to defeat or retirement the Republicans do not have a majority of returning members.
The House of Representatives cannot organize or take other legislative actions until a speaker is elected. So here’s the follow up question on January 2025 chaos - without a legitimately elected House Speaker or sworn House members (note, the Speaker swears in all members-elect that are present in the Chamber in mass, he/she cannot pick out and choose only members of their party), can House members even participate in the January 6 certification?
Thank you, Michael G !! You are absolutely correct.
This "over the top" secret plan is based on a faulty premise, based on a complete misunderstanding of how the House is organized. It just doesn't happen that way. I'm surprised Thom published this without doing better research.
January 3, 2025, begins a new session of Congress, the 119th. The terms of all Members of the 118th Congress will have expired, and the previous Speaker has no more authority than any other Member-elect.
The first order of business is the election of a new Speaker, followed by the swearing-in of the entire membership. The presiding officer for the election of the Speaker is the Clerk. (Remember the marathon of ballots to elect Kevin McCarthy in January 2022? Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not preside over that.)
Only after the new Speaker is elected and all Members have been sworn-in can anything be done in the House.
You have said a mouthful here today. This lays out Frumpy’s plan of Dictatorship right to the “T”!
If we don’t get out and vote BLUE 💙💙💙💙, we are destroying ourselves. It’s our fault that we allowed the Republicans to take control of the House. We MUST get it back, and keep it!!!
Yep. Just as the Conservative & Unionist party and now Keir Starmer’s Labour Party are the proud heirs of Margaret Thatcher’s 1980s ‘revolution’ in the UK. A Dark Age.
There’s nothing Democrats can legally do to stop Speaker Johnson from pulling this off: he can postpone swearing a member in for as long as he wants WTF so our laws give all the power to the house of representative? WTF
Trump is evil. Revisit Peck's "People of the Lie" I don't know why only now I flashed back on Aleister Crowley's motto "Do what thou wilt." L. Ron Hubbard was a disciple. What I don't understand is how the women debase themselves. Been watching various "(people) on the street interviews" and that poor, sad woman tearfully draping herself on The Beast in adulation on stage. The force is strong, indeed.
The only hope then to set things right would be for the current POTUS which would be Biden calling for the Military to seize control in a Coup like other third world countries do from time to time. Piece of cake.
Trying to figure out morally "at war" political constituencies here at home has nothing to do with lacking leadership. He's not "being played." He's threading the tiniest needle ever faced by a president. May you never walk a mile in such shoes with cheap snarks such as you provide.
I agree with everything you predict except the GOP privatizing social security. I think they will just end it? They will claim there's no money left in it because the nation is $30 trillion in debt and there's no more money for social programs. They may try to keep food stamps for the women with children, because they need population growth for more soldiers,slaves and servants.
It is time for Biden to replace Garland and start prosecuting the 147 GOP seditionists. Their goal is to loot the treasury and act like God's while spouting stupidity and insanity.
Bob they won't end social security there is billions in the trust fund, what they will do is privatize social security, contract it out, that puts the trust fund in the hands of the contractor, as well as the FICA payments which they will use to gamble on the stock market
Wy past time for Biden to fire Garland and other Trump moles inside the government, but he won't.. This is one time I wish he had some of Trump's audaciousness.
William, with their love of the trickle down theory, they will crash the stock market and loot the social security trust fund that way. When the poor have no money, that is when the feces will hit the fan. Just a different way of laundering our money. It will take them a little longer though so we can keep eating food for a couple more months to maybe a couple more years longer? The GOP is very good at laundering money. I will not be surprised whether they end social security benefits to get revenge on FDR or if they put it in the stock market and lose it that way. Either way they get the cash.
You think they would trash the stock market, the main source of their wealth?
If you know that the stock market is going to drop precipitously, you find a way to short stocks to profit on the downturn. That's not a sure thing once the crash is underway, so look for a rise in short interest as a hint that something sinister is afoot.
why did Biden keep trump connected Garland in place when he was obviously protecting trump this entire 4 years??
Biden and the Democrats are afraid of being accused of weaponizing DOJ. And they need a tin ear, because the Republicans and Trump don't give a rats ass.
The Republicans walk around spraying 5th Avenue with bullets, and Democrats are afraid of throwing a fire cracker, no wonder we are losing our democracy.
The three C's
Complicity, compromise and/or cowardice
yes that for sure. but changing the head of the DOJ to one who isn't a sleeper agent for trump would be actually just good freakin governance. I don't really see that as a reason Biden did that because it would make him a fool. Obama had valid reasons for taking the high road at all turns, it's too bad bc he could have changed a lot by motivating activism across the country, but given how racist this country is and the need to exist blemish free in history, it's just unfortunate timing.
Governing is not for the timid. Obama did nothing for the blacks, probably for the reason you stated, because our country is so racist, but that is not a reason or an excuse, all he did was to enbable racism, make things actually worse, that beer summit with that racist cop and Dr Louis Henry Gates Jr is an example. Obama was guarding his legacy, that is for sure, but enabled racism.
Taking the high road is for losers.
As the Scottish diddy goes, Ye take the high road and I'll take the low road and I'll be in Scotland afore ye.
Republicans, though a minority, didn't get where they are by taking the high road
Even a fool knows that to be successful you have to emulate success.
I wouldn’t say Obama did nothing for blacks- he actually did a lot of small things that make a huge difference to minorities such as getting rid of those pay day cash loan places- the CFPB (when it was funded), he also tried to pass paid leave for all, exec orders for what he could re min wage & fam leave, expanded fam tax credits, health insurance expanded to cover more families, but mostly he spent 8 years fighting to protect what safety net we have. Obama had a lot of hopes and dreams but was kept from doing 98% of it- at least he got the beginnings of health care for all started. But honestly, as said above, he finished last bc he believed he had to meet a standard for the history books more than he needed to do what it would have taken to fight the republicans.
And from Heather Cox Richardson's column yesterday:" How religion and authoritarianism have come together in modern America was on display Thursday, when right-wing activist Jack Posobiec opened this weekend’s conference of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) outside Washington, D.C., with the words: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here.” He held up a cross necklace and continued: “After we burn that swamp to the ground, we will establish the new American republic on its ashes, and our first order of business will be righteous retribution for those who betrayed America.”
Thank you for including this, Rob! My blood ran cold when I read that Thursday. "Welcome to the end of democracy." These fascists are deadly serious. They are hellbent on eradicating the 20th century, over 115 years of progress and evolution in the U.S.
Theocrats are happily marrying authoritarians.
I worry that too many people simply cannot think or reason for themselves anymore, that they are basically too indolent and uncaring as long as they have their various screen entertainments. "Bread and circuses for the masses"--wait, hold the bread. Unless it's consecrated...
I am glad I'm 71 and well past the age of childbearing--I never wanted to be a baby factory! You can bet they will outlaw contraception, too.
Linda, I'm also 71 and agree with what you say. Here's hoping the insane rulings like the recent one in "Talibama" will motivate Independents and non-voting Democrats all over the country, but especially in swing states to get off their butts in November to save Democracy. And if you don't get Robert Hubbell's daily newsletter, I'd recommend checking it out. He typically puts a positive spin on recent events, and gives ways individuals can act to make a difference.
We have got to get rid of the Republican party. Even if Nikki Haley gets elected, they will still try to overthrow democracy. They are no longer a political party, but they are a terrorist organization. This is why it is imperative that we start prosecuting 147 seditionist as soon as possible! If Biden fails to replace Garland, I will have to consider him an accomplice. So far he has failed for over 3 years to protect democracy! I have to vote democratic socialism, so I will vote for Biden. A vote for anyone else will be a vote for a dictatorship led by lying psychopaths.
Correct, and I agree re: Garland. What a disappointment. And while Biden may not be the optimal choice, he's the only one. And despite all the obstruction, he has managed to get some positive initiatives through.
Biden has taken great care of the economy and I'm sure the oligarchs are proud of him also. But for taking care of democracy?
Re: the oligarchs, not sure they're so proud of him. Why do the Koch Bros. Musk, and others for example, so strongly support the other side? As for taking care of democracy, I think that's a Justice Dept. issue. The Repugs are constantly claiming that Biden is directing their investigations from the White House, which needs to be independent and "hands off" when it comes to prosecuting the 1/6 terrorists and the Orange Menace. Maybe that's why Biden hasn't replaced Garland. The optics wouldn't look good.
The scenario Mr. Hartmann speaks of takes no notice of whether Biden has done a good job, or whether people vote for him or not.
What are our options!!!!???
An inside story we probably won't ever know: Garland's "bad beat" consolation prize, or cowardly triangulation? You would think somebody consulting would have understood the fundamental truth that appeasement only encourages the bully. You'd think.....
no, he's connected to the Trump's and actually has protected Trump all along. a wolf in sheep's clothing who should have been replaced after the first year of zero action against anyone in government involved with the election heist attempt. I don't understand why Biden didn't fire him. the lack of accountability for anyone high in government since who knows when - Nixon? is one reason we are here today.
Talibama. I like that. Quick thinking. Thom does have some of the sharpest readers.
Hubbell. Never heard of him. Making a note!
Thanks for the reference Rob. Is his newsletter on Substack?
I think it just has not gotten “bad enough” for the masses yet, but it will.
Me too. Will turn 71 on International Women's Day this year. (I love that coincidence!) Never had much instinct to reproduce, with respect to sisters who seem to feel it strongly. The CPAC messaging has tried to pooh-pooh those comments as tongue in cheek. I saw the clip, and the dude looked real to me, not to mention the audience he was catering to, and not expecting somebody to spread it around. Only after being busted, haha, just a joke. Yeah, right. I am curious: what event did you date 115 years from? I keep going back to women getting the vote: 1920, amazing enough.
Gosh, I can’t remember where I picked up “115 years” now. Robert Reich? Another Thom Hartmann post? I’m sorry that the source and reason are eluding me. Four states had given women the right to vote by or in 1909. I regret that I have had to restart my computer and have lost my breadcrumb trail.
Addendum to previous: now we have date 1887 for "corporate personhood"flim-flam, thanks to today's Hartmann Report.
Didn't mean to put you on the spot. The date of 1920 for women's suffrage just fascinates me, because it is so recent! Also, that it was fifty years after male African-descended at least technically, constitutionally got the vote. Suddenly historical dates seem so relevant: Alito citing a British witch-burning judge from the 1670's:" Hale once wrote a long letter to his grandchildren, dispensing life advice, in which he veered into a screed against women, describing them as “chargeable unprofitable people” who “know the ready way to consume an estate, and to ruin a family quickly.” Hale particularly despaired of the changes he saw in young women, writing, “And now the world is altered: young gentlewomen learn to be bold” and “talk loud.” https://www.propublica.org/article/abortion-roe-wade-alito-scotus-hale
Then here comes the Comstock Act hello 1873! The book : "Other Powers" by Goldsmith fills out backstory on that. But how many outside us Hartmannistas have a clue about any of that?
That Jack Posobiec speech was sarcasm and an attack on progressives and the "liberal" media. At least that is how he played it, not as a serious plan for "conservatives". However, the question is, how far will this crew of wingers and fascists actually go to destroy democracy? And will they succeed? If they control DC, what will the media do while the Republicans are screwing over the voters, We the People? What will We the People do in response?
The right wing and the corporate media has done the same for Trump Norm, played it down as just rhetoric and sarcasm.
Maya D'Angelou was correct, when a person shows you who they are, believe them.
Posobiec showed us quite clearly not only who he is, but who the modern version of what is called conservatism is..
How far will they go you ask? All the way to a dictatorial theocracy, Trump and his cult have said as much, question is why don't you believe them?
William, It has been the wingers and #45, himself, who have tried to gloss over his diatribes as sarcasm or comedy, which they clearly were not. The corporate media has tried to whitewash his rants, playing the bothsidesism game. But that is not the same as the way the moron Posobiec's speech started out. You can see his speech on YouTube. His remarks clearly were sarcasm. And it was not the opening speech. He spoke on Friday, not Thursday. Mischaracterizing ANYONE'S comments, as Heather Cox Richardson did, in any direction is not ethical.
That being said, these insurrectionists obviously need to be profoundly disappointed come November as their preferred fascists need to be defeated, overwhelmingly!
Apparently, defeating them at the polls is NOT how this cadre of Republican schemers will be undone! They are going to use procedure to challenge enough polls to stay in anyway {they already did it once in Florida, using a slightly different scheme of throwing out good votes}.
Preaching to the choir Norm. I saw Pobosiec's comments on MSNBC, every program to Jan Psaki to Joy Reid.
Problem is that the comments should be front and center, and not the bright shiny object of the day.
As regards characterizing your comments. I did no such thing,
You actually started off as an apologist for Pobosiec, claiming that his comments were sarcasm, and thus not serious.
I vehemently disagree, Pobosiec and Trump are deadly serious.
Trump and his apologists try to dismiss his threats as just bluster and sarcasm. I saw you doing the same thing.
If that was not your intent then you should have edited the comment.
PS, you don't know me, like others who comment here do. I really don't care what opinion you hold of me, nor anyone else.
To thy own self be true.
“ I vehemently disagree, Pobosiec and Trump are deadly serious.”
Trump has stated that he will be “Dictator for a Day” - that is his dog whistle on how he will find cause to invoke a National Emergency and then use the Presidential Emergency Actions Documents to enforce authoritarian rule and stat in office as Liz Cheney pointed out forever.
I did not accuse YOU of anything. My comment about mischaracterizing was about Ms Richardson's apparent portrayal of his speech.
Heather Cox Richardson said: " How religion and authoritarianism have come together in modern America was on display Thursday, when right-wing activist Jack Posobiec opened this weekend’s conference of the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) outside Washington, D.C., with the words: “Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here.” He held up a cross necklace and continued: “After we burn that swamp to the ground, we will establish the new American republic on its ashes, and our first order of business will be righteous retribution for those who betrayed America.”
What in that statement is mischaracterization. and Mind you think carefully of what you say, as she has a lot of fans and followers on substack, including Thom's and Robert Reich's substack.
IMO, and apparently that of others, her depiction was spot on. So how did she mischaracterize Pobosiec.? That we can discuss.
For full disclosure. I'm almost 85, and abour 40 years ago I was to the right of Pobosiec, I sat down one day to be interviewed for Aryan Nations. I never joined, common sense prevailed and I relocated to Santa Cruz, CA, found new friends, new insight and had ,my own awakening.
Point is I've been there, done that and Know what evil lurks in the heart and minds of men.
I believe them!
It was NOT sarcasm, so far as I could see. It seemed way more like plain old-fashioned hubris and confidence in his side winning.
What CAN the People do in response? We cannot have a war against ourselves and our communities … We cannot win in a hot fight against our government in the hands of these people.
We cannot turn this around after they pull it off — not easily and not safely.
What are our options for it NOT happening?
When someone tells you who they are and what the intend, you'd be foolish not to believe them. This was not sarcasm, it was truly what they want, they see the Constitution and democracy as barriers to their total control via a Christian theocracy.
Norm, it is NOT “sarcasm “. Google Project 2025.
Posobiec said it as though it were a done deal, too. If he’s thinking what Thom Hartmann says he’s thinking, he IS convinced it’s a done deal.
Can we get some of the crooks out of Congress in time? All legally???? As they claim they are?
What are our options?
WHY ISN'T THIS A DAILY, LONG RUNNING CAMPAIGN AD BY THE DEMOCRATS? IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. As Thom and many listeners have pointed out on his show, the Democrats are lame and ineffectual when it comes to hard hitting campaign ads. To their detriment.
Lock Rob Libon up!
Holy fuck! I never realized that the Speaker can refuse to swear in duly elected House members for no specific reason other than his own political needs.
Don't worry, William. This "over the top" secret plan is based on a faulty premise, based on a complete misunderstanding of how the House is organized. I'm surprised Thom didn't research this better. It just can't happen that way.
January 3, 2025, begins a new session of Congress, the 119th. The terms of all Members of the 118th Congress will have expired, and the previous Speaker has no more authority than any other Member-elect.
The first order of business is the election of a new Speaker, followed by the swearing-in of the entire membership. The presiding officer for the election of the Speaker is the Clerk. (Remember the marathon of ballots to elect Kevin McCarthy in January 2022? Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not preside over that.) Only after the new Speaker is elected and all Members have been sworn-in can anything be done in the House.
.
So was it the new congress elected in 2020 and sworn in on Jan 3rd 2021 who certified (or didn’t) Biden’s win?
Yes, it was the new (117th) Congress.
Thanks. I should have known, but Thom's presentation was overwhelming.
I was thinking this very thing. This explanation by Jerry Weiss sums up the process well. IMHO, this theory is moot.
Thanks Thom. A conspiracy, also known as a plot, is a secret plan or agreement between people (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose
1. We need to expand our base. We can sweep. https://www.fieldteam6.org/ If we swamp them, no basis for House intervention.
2. 14th Amendment section 3 remains viable against insurrectionists. Potentially 145 sitting House members, including Maga Mike have exposure for Jan 6, 2021.
3. Biden is/would be the elected President. Garland can bring actions for obstruction of justice an/or to stop the pretext that would be the predicate to the vice president to send the election to the house. Elise Stefanik and Thomas Massie have may have established a conspiracy. Sounds like extortion. 18 U.S.C. § 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree to injure, threaten, or intimidate a person in the United States in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured by the a form of Constitution or laws of the United States or because of his or her having exercised such a right.
Also 18 U.S. Code § 610 - Coercion of political activity
It shall be unlawful for any person to intimidate, threaten, command, or coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, command, or coerce, any employee of the Federal Government as defined in section 7322(1) of title 5, United States Code, to engage in, or not to engage in, any political activity, including, but not limited to, voting or refusing to vote for any candidate or measure in any election, making or refusing to make any political contribution, or working or refusing to work on behalf of any candidate. Any person who violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful candidates for the offices of President and Vice President, respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(
4.. Several sitting House members requested a pardon and most probably are eyewitnesses to the January 6 case. If Garland and the FBI will not investigate them, three (3) civil cases remain viable and the perps can be deposed. If criminality is exposed, they can be arrested.
David, could Garland have started this 3 years ago? Surely Biden and Garland ought to have seen the writing on the wall?
The new pres. will be certified on Jan 6, 2025. Jan 2024 was last month. MAGA Mike led the group voting to NOT certify Biden's election in Jan 2021, not 2020
W Bush also lost the popular vote in FL, despite the dishonest voter purge by Katherine Harris and the butterfly ballot, but the SCOTUS prevented a nonpartisan recount which would have found that Gore won by a little over 100 votes. Corporate media buried the story on the back pages and even then in the final paragraphs.
Republicans have already proven that they can steal presidential elections via treason. Nixon did it in '68. Reagan did it in '80. And they've proven, like Dixiecrats and machine Democrats before them, that they can steal local and state elections using all sorts of election rigging. But few of those posed the existential threat the fascist Republican leaders pose this year.
All of this highlights the widespread lemming-like stampede of voters obediently following party leaders on election day. Will Republican voters who say they won't vote for Trump follow through, or will they join the mindless stampede over the cliff?
Your last paragraph poses the hold your nose vote question. For those Republicans and Republican primary voting Independents surveyed after voting that said they wouldn’t support TFG in November, much goes on inside of the voting booth that’s never mentioned truthfully afterwards. Their choice is no vote, hold nose and still vote TFG, or hold nose and vote Biden. My opinion is the Republican leaning Independents will hold nose and vote Biden, the Republicans that said they won’t will vote TFG.
If someone telegraphs a punch; by, say, dropping their balled-up fist behind them, arm-locked straight down, does it not make sense, esp. if they've hit you before and hurt you, assaulted you on Jan 6th; does it not make sense for you to friggin' DUCK !!!
The GOP? It's as if the Dems are in a long running street fight with a criminally insane gang. A group who believe in neither law nor order. And the Dems allow the insane GOP clowns to ambush and pummel them daily.
So, I say unto Democrats:
Figuratively: Fight like no one is watching. [But the whole world is watching with fear and loathing.]
There's no such thing as sarcasm with those fascists. When they say something outrageous like that, believe it. He may have tried to play it as sarcasm to appease Progressives and walk it back, but the far right that listens to him takes truly believes it.
If that scenario comes to pass, we are finished as a country. There will be enough members of the majority radicalized by such a coup, for that is what it will be, legal or not, that violence is inevitable. A very un-civil war will likely ensue, and this nation’s enemies will be overcome with delight as we destroy ourselves. I may not live to see the election, being of dubious health and nearing age 76, but I will be sure our youngest daughter and grandson have the paperwork and resources to leave this country if your scenario becomes a reality. I pray your prediction is wrong.
After the civil war dies down, in a week to 15 years? I expect the GOP will confiscate the magas guns with the military and police. For now they are just useful idiots.
The only way to put an end to GOP wet dreams is a base campaign of 3 or 4 economic issues that low information Dem voters come out and vote. This did not happen in 2022 and so we lost the house. In truth low information voters do not believe that the GOP can take us down as a democracy. They think the Dems are over hyping the threat to get votes and will ignore such statements. And the Dems can have 3 or 4 economic issues in the campaign but not hear the message enough to know the promises exist. They can and will not vote if the daily campaign does not daily repeat the message strong enough. Unless the promises are not daily repeated sufficiently to allow the base voters to know what those promises are. Only when everybody knows what those economic issues are can we find salvation for democracy for us and around the world.
I like running the idea of running 30 second commercials on their favorite antenna TV channels. Asking them if a dictator can take their guns or hire immigrants or abolish the minimum wage or harvest their organs or take their social security...
Would Trump and the
billionaires, prefer to hire four immigrants for less money than an American citizen?
What Thom heard from GOP insiderers is that votes don't matter, Mike Johnson will use his power to refuse to seat Democrat winners of the house, and then use his position to nullify the election, and throw it to the states, and there are more red states than blue state.
Since Biden is the exec and has power over DOJ, one would hope that Biden doesn't let Johnson get away with his subversive attempt, but Biden will sit by like a stone wall and let Democracy melt into a theocratic dictatorship.
OMG! This will keep me up at night, Thom!
Me too.
I agree with Thom’s assessment for the potential for obstruction and chaos come January 3 - 6, 2025 and I too have read recent similar articles. There is one part of the argument however which leaves me perplexed and questioning the legality, both under the Constitution, Federal law, and House rules, by which Speaker Johnson could pull off such a scenario.
The term of ALL members of the biennial Congress ENDS at noon, January 3 at which time the term of the new biennial Congress begins. The first duty of the House is the swearing in of the Speaker upon his/her election by the dean of the United States House of Representatives, the chamber's longest-serving member. (The current dean is Hal Rogers, a Republican from Kentucky, who has served in the House since 1981 and is running for reelection.). Speaker Johnson is a member of the current House of the current biennial Congress. (Note, See first sentence of this paragraph). Traditionally, the majority party of the incoming biennial Congress nominates a candidate for Speaker and given that party’s majority is voted Speaker. For the moment for this discussion, assume the Republican chaos of January 2025 is an anomaly. After a Speaker is elected, federal law states the Speaker swears in the House members in mass. That’s ALL the members at the start of the biennial session.
I cannot find any reference in the Constitution, Federal law, House rules, or several online sources which definitively states only incumbent returning House members elect the Speaker nor anything that definitively states the Speaker of the former biennial House is the de facto continuing Speaker absent election by the new House.
I therefore question the legitimacy of, and the rationale for debate, the continuation of Johnson’s legitimate claim to Speakership absent official election past noon on January 3, especially if the Democrats regain the majority or under the scenario due to defeat or retirement the Republicans do not have a majority of returning members.
The House of Representatives cannot organize or take other legislative actions until a speaker is elected. So here’s the follow up question on January 2025 chaos - without a legitimately elected House Speaker or sworn House members (note, the Speaker swears in all members-elect that are present in the Chamber in mass, he/she cannot pick out and choose only members of their party), can House members even participate in the January 6 certification?
Uncharted waters.
Thank you, Michael G !! You are absolutely correct.
This "over the top" secret plan is based on a faulty premise, based on a complete misunderstanding of how the House is organized. It just doesn't happen that way. I'm surprised Thom published this without doing better research.
January 3, 2025, begins a new session of Congress, the 119th. The terms of all Members of the 118th Congress will have expired, and the previous Speaker has no more authority than any other Member-elect.
The first order of business is the election of a new Speaker, followed by the swearing-in of the entire membership. The presiding officer for the election of the Speaker is the Clerk. (Remember the marathon of ballots to elect Kevin McCarthy in January 2022? Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not preside over that.)
Only after the new Speaker is elected and all Members have been sworn-in can anything be done in the House.
.
Sources:
https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-verify/united-states-house-of-representatives-speaker-oath-swear-in-fact-check/536-07e2ace3-8d8b-4ae8-ad8f-59d31f5b92d7
https://www.cato.org/blog/118th-congress-still-hasnt-been-sworn-constitutional
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3798410-why-lawmakers-can-vote-for-house-speaker-before-taking-their-oath-of-office/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
https://www.congressionalinstitute.org/2020/12/28/how-the-house-elects-its-speaker-2/
You have said a mouthful here today. This lays out Frumpy’s plan of Dictatorship right to the “T”!
If we don’t get out and vote BLUE 💙💙💙💙, we are destroying ourselves. It’s our fault that we allowed the Republicans to take control of the House. We MUST get it back, and keep it!!!
These would be controllers of our society are not "conservatives" but FASCISTS!
We need to call them as they are.
Fascism is the logical offspring of conservatism, for nothing is more conservative than fascism.
Trump and his cult are the heirs of Reagan,not an aberration.
Yep. Just as the Conservative & Unionist party and now Keir Starmer’s Labour Party are the proud heirs of Margaret Thatcher’s 1980s ‘revolution’ in the UK. A Dark Age.
WTF
There’s nothing Democrats can legally do to stop Speaker Johnson from pulling this off: he can postpone swearing a member in for as long as he wants WTF so our laws give all the power to the house of representative? WTF
Alarmist? I don’t think so. The force is strong with the cult of the Church of the Orange Jesus.
May g/God be with us.
Trump is evil. Revisit Peck's "People of the Lie" I don't know why only now I flashed back on Aleister Crowley's motto "Do what thou wilt." L. Ron Hubbard was a disciple. What I don't understand is how the women debase themselves. Been watching various "(people) on the street interviews" and that poor, sad woman tearfully draping herself on The Beast in adulation on stage. The force is strong, indeed.
The only hope then to set things right would be for the current POTUS which would be Biden calling for the Military to seize control in a Coup like other third world countries do from time to time. Piece of cake.
Trying to figure out morally "at war" political constituencies here at home has nothing to do with lacking leadership. He's not "being played." He's threading the tiniest needle ever faced by a president. May you never walk a mile in such shoes with cheap snarks such as you provide.