This election is too important to indulge one man's desire to hang onto his office. It literally will define the future of democracy as a form of governance both in America and worldwide…
I liked your comment, Cassandra Here, because I know your premise is true.
President Obama picked Joe as VP because he knew he was decent and an expert on many things, but most of all because he would heal the nation if the worst happened to him. The other Dem candidates in 2020 stepped-off and endorsed Biden for the exact same reasons.
The ball is in his court, and I hope President Biden and the Democrats figure out the decent thing to do. We need to know the truth about if he can handle 4 more years.
I have been getting bad vibes off of Biden since he did not fire Garland for letting the traitors walk! It cost us the Congress and control of the Supreme Court possibly. Actually I've never been a fan of Biden. He has been too much of a Reagan Democrat, a republican plant, a Dino! I think it is very possible he threw this debate on purpose! He has done great things for the nation the last four years and has made the rich richer but has failed to protect democracy consistently!!! I like Bernie Sanders.
Sticks and stones, Bob. I know and love Bernie. And there are plenty of facts in Biden’s favor, except that people and the media are treating this like a stupid game show. Biden has very arguably had the best 3+ years any President has had since Eisenhower. Just vote for Trump and see how that works out.
David, regardless of how the media treats it. The only important thing is who will be 47. If Bidens performance, in the last 3+ years, and on TV last night, and his presence, his charisma are enough then all else is irrelevant, otherwise it is end of freedom as we know it.
Unfortunately people pull the lever based on perceptions, not facts.
Well, that’s good, but I am 72, haven’t voted for a Repug yet, and ain’t starting now. However, in my 1st Presidential election, I voted for Linda Jenness of the Socialist Workers Party because George McGovern made such a mess of a campaign (Thomas Eagleton, etc., etc.).
Well, RT was one of the few places that actually gave a voice to some of the more left voices, such as Chris Hedges, Dr. Wolff. While I have been sorely disappointed in how Dr. Hedges has been saying lately, and of course, the turning of a few others (thinking of Greenwood and other other author I can't think of his name off hand), that channel was far less dangerous than Fox and even most of the propaganda networks called 'main stream media.' Trolls are everywhere. Here, too.
I agree, but RT did not give a rip about what was good for democracy. RT’s work was done once they so thoroughly divided liberals into tribes they could manage.
How much better it would have been had we just talked with each other about our differences and stopped looking for utopian perfection. That’s what RT did, it drove us into extremes. And we felt righteous in and empowered by our own narratives.
So you would rather have Trump than Biden? Cuz that is what you're going to get! We have to vote blue, that includes Biden lovers! Not just Bernie lovers. I'm open to Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, Gavin newsom or any other Democrat also!
With "She's not fit," Bernie caused Hillary to lose to Trump. Oh, a lot of Bernie supports did vote for her, but a lot sat out or voted for Putin-buddy Stein.
No, Hillary was just not a great candidate. While she is a wonderful politician, and certainly well qualified, the extremist right had for years pounded away to make far too many either distrustful or outright hateful of the Clintons (unjustly). Comey certainly did his damage with that last minute 'reopening the investigation' - but certainly, it was the main stream media that liked the clicks and the glitz that trump brought to their bottom lines, rather than a commitment to education the public - a failure of their duties. And let's not forget, the manipulation that drump did to 'catch and kill' the stories that likely would have busted his chances of winning back then. Now, sadly, the Magas have lost all sense of morality and decency, but back then, I think it might have made a difference.
The election is too important to bail on Biden because of one less-than-spectacular performance. With friends like Democrats, who needs enemies? I am so sick of Dems tearing their hair and wailing over every bump in the road that the media turns into a feeding frenzy. Just buck the f up and get to work registering new Democrats (Field Team 6) and getting out the vote in ALL the ways we have to do that. Only half of those eligible to vote in this country show up. Le't change THAT, not our candidate.
In my opinion, Biden's difficulty could have been too much prepping for the debate in combination with too little sleep. In addition, fatigue could have been a part of his speech issues.
I totally agree. He was fine after he walked over to the people waiting for him. And when he took the mike his speech was loud and clear. I am suspicious that CNN lowered the volume of his debate mike because the difference in volume was so different. CNN has gone Right Wing and I don't trust them anymore.
NYT piled on and immediately released an editorial telling Biden he has to go for the good of the country. They were just salivating and could even give it 24 hours. I'd like someone to tell me with a straight face, they aren't in the tank for Trump.
It is more than a cold Cassandra, he walked on stage stiff legged, that is the way he walks now, as if he has a brace and arthritis. Trump bounded on energetic, angry and in attack mode.
There are two classes of voters, the committed and the uncommitted. The committed will not be swayed, be that Trump, RFK, Jill Stein, Cornell West or Trump, it is the handful of uncommitted that are up for grabs and the uncommitted this election, I fear are of no account, as the election will be lost,(won by Trump in default) in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania because of the Muslim and the black (younger male) vote.
These are Swing states,crucial swing states, and each has over 100,000 Muslims and even more blacks, the Muslims have threatened to sit out the election, the blacks will either vote for Trump, Cornell West or sit on their hands.
Biden won each of those states by 10,000 votes each in 2020,
And are you working for an outcome that won’t destroy democracy, or just moaning about Biden’s performance. Me? I’ve been up since 4:30 a.m. working on getting the info out there and getting the voters out. Went to bed last night at midnight. Been working like hell since 2015, and I’m pretty damned sick of folks telling me what won’t work and who won’t vote. Nice encouragement here.
Biden is not the issue. The only issue on the table is defeating Trump. Nothing else matters. I don't care if he can ride a bike, totally irrelevant, but the question is if riding the Biden horse will result in Trump 47..
The Democratic convention is in August, Kamala is not carrying the Israeli baggage that is driving the Muslims and blacks to sit out the election or vote third party.
Well, then - someone needs to communicate to all those Muslims and Blacks what their life is going to be like under the new GQP regime and Project 2025. I think all that is fake bullshit the media wants to pump anyway. Are 'blacks and muslims' really that stupid?
t is not fake, I have heard them on the TV, Muslims and Blacks, and TV hosts like Ayman Mohleydin, Mehdi Hassan was so strident that he was shown the door on MSNBC.
It is not a matter of being stupid, it is a matter of showing your ass, I heard one spokesman speak of 2028 like they will teach the Democrats a lesson in 2024, and they will come around in 2028.
Lots of Luck with that if Trump wins. 2028 will be a Orban/Putin style election.
Ironic if Trump wins, there will be a real international culture war, if Muslims think that there is western hostility to Islam now, wait till Trump wins., Netanyahu is hedging his bet that he can hang on till Trump wins the election, as he and Trump are brothers from another mother, and the Israel right wing and American right wing are butt buddies, only question is who is the top and who is the bottom.
Hopefully the full effect of electing Trump will be apparent to all by November. Unfortunately the 2025 project is too long for most of our voters to read. But media do try to get it's points across before November. You have it correct about arthritis but that does not affect the brain. FDR was in a wheel chair reinventing our governmenn the 1930s.
Remember all the ills that JFK had. FDR had polio. I'm 72. I don't walk like I used to, and sometimes I'm not as quick as I used to be. But that makes me no less moral, honest, or reliable. This is our choice right now. in 2028 we can work on Pete Buttegeig or Gavin Newsum, or any other rising young star, but this is 2024. We cannot fail.
FDR's polio was hidden, and the press was different then, it knew by for the good of the country, not shareholder value, never mentioned or exposed his difficulty, same with JFK, we didn't learn of his disease until 40 or 50 years after his death.
I have a problem with value judgements, for instance The Trump cult consider him to be moral., and reliable to usher in a right wing theocracy.
I am not a fan of Buttigeg, he should have visited East Palestine the day of the train wreck, he is too wishy washy, indecisive and flows like water, downhill, not a leader. Gavin Newsom has baggage as well. My favorite is Greg Whitmer, but the Democratic party will not select a woman, Hillary was an exception because of her public image, and credentials.
The only thing that is important this election is keeping Trump out of the White House. Biden is irrelevant, he beat Trump in 2020 when a head of cabbage could have beaten Trump. Biden is president by default, because a record breaking 81 million peple showed up to cast an Anti Trump ballot.
We need that an more this year, but we have the disability that Muslims have said that they aren't going to vote for Biden, and they have enough registered voters in these states to swing the electoral college to Trump, blacks, specifically millennial's and Gen x,y, z blacks have stated there distaste with the Democrats, for the same reason as the Muslims and for not giving them all of their wishes.. on top of that there is Hispanic flight to the Republicans, Hispanics are cultural conservatives.
This is the major Democratic weakness, running around hysterical instead of attacking back. They only need to pretend Trump is a Progressive and they will be able to attack him fine which they seldom do to Republicans. And they need to get behind Biden solidly. Reminds me of the Al Franken fiasco where there was a accusation and instead of investigating they went hysterical and forced him to resign for the good of the Party. He would have been the Senator questioning Kavenaugh. They blew it big-time. And the woman was a right Wing radio host from KABC. Dems are unstrategic, hysterical and fractured unfortunately. They don't know how to fight the Christofascists. They need to utilize the NeverTrumpers for attack and pull themselves together. Biden is fine so support him.
Yeah; I'm sick of Dems resigning at the tiniest bit of flap. Frankin should have done what the republipukes do. Repent, say they're sorry, they've been forgiven, and go on to be elected to ever higher offices.
I AGREE! We must form lockstep for the first times in our lives, in order to win this WAR, because that is what it is. A war against the people, against democracy, and against the future of the United States of America.
I saw Jon Stewart say a few weeks ago that "Feelings don't care about your facts" regarding something else, but I saw someone reference it today. I fear that the fact checking and calling out CNN will be too late. It also doesn't matter what the candidates said but how they looked. Thom has pointed it out (and often) that Biden has done a fantastic job, but one bad night may have doomed us all.
Bret,I heard someone say on TV, that Biden was making a mistake telling people how well off they are, especially when they have to pay $4 a gallon for gas and $4 for a loaf of bread, neither are his fault, and the president has no control over prices or inflation, none but they keep acting and talking like they do, so they suffer when they spiral out of control.
The Fed actually controls inflation, the fed and producers and middle men who gouge. Gouging , at this time, favors Trump, Trump favors deregulation. It is simple, but it can't be explained simply,not with an ignorant populace.
Facts vs Feelings, feelings win every time. Humans are emotional and illogical critters
So why don't Democrats talk about the Price Gouging Bill that they attempted to pass during the gas hikes? The Republicans shot it down but it could return if you all voted Blue. Give Biden Congress and see what happens. Certain Supreme Court criminals could be impeached. Many things could be fixed. Unless the Democrats rally behind Biden, Trump will win.
Price gouging is only one of many things they should have in their ads.
The Dems are rallying around Biden. The problem is the Swing States and the 100,000 or so Muslims who live in Wisconsin, Michigan,Pennsylvania who have said that they won't vote for Biden because of Israel. Biden only won those states by 10,000 votes in 2020.. do the math.
The first loyalty to a Muslim is not the country that gives them succor, the country they fled or migrated to because of it's freedoms and opportunities they didn't have at home
No their first loyalty is to the Ummah (google it), they will sink America out of pique, then whine when Trump deports their asses as part of the 11 million.
Deregulation and monopolistic control of the markets and supply chains, in its most recent iteration was laid out by Reaganomics, it is what has gotten us into repeated problems with inflation. Monopolies are now so powerful they can blunt inflationary control by the Fed. and sway political races. A president Trump would do what every Republican since Nixon has done, exacerbate these monopoly & deregulation generated problems, just as Trump did his first time around. President Biden is the first president, in decades to pursue corporate greed with anti-trust enforcement, to any meaningful degree. (It's the only way possible to control "greedflation" but, it takes time to undo, what corporate America, and mostly the GOP, have done to damage American consumers, over many decades.) This problem was turned into a crisis with the Citizens United SCOTUS sanctioning of political bribery. As a result, 12 years later, corporate America has taken over total ownership of the Republican party and is working over the Democratic party, as much as it can. There are MAGA followers that have legitimate complaints, but unfortunately, they are being misled by the corporate owned GOP operatives that have infiltrated our media, intent upon shifting the blame away from corporate greed and monopolized media, where it belongs, to groups with little political power, minorities, immigrants, ethnicities, etc. Excess oligarch greed doesn't concern itself with floating all boats, it is determined to sink the boats of those not part of their elite GOP ruling class. It is willing to use all manner of trickery to meet their goals
A misguided ideology, if ever there was one, many of these elements have long been part of the historical fascist playbook.
His only mistake is not explaining how 60 years of republican policies and obstruction and giveaways to corporate interests are the real reason, plus corporate GREED, are the causes of all their pain. and the housing crisis? because we have allowed the bloated wealthy to steal and extract ever more profits from the working class, thus allowing them all that 'cash' to run around using any means possible to increase their wealth ever more (vulture capitalists - equity vultures, etc.) instead of taxing away those excess profits and using it to better everyone's lives - and by outlining exactly what those taxes do; streets, bridges, eliminating lead pipes, protecting drinking water and our food supply that seems to have a recall every day now, not to mention our education system, and our failed health care delivery system. Yes, we must do like those litte Chick Publication tracts put out by the radical christian evangelicals, and show the horrors of what awaits us if we don't keep democracy.
He couldn't do that on stage in the allotted time, and the Democratic party can't do that, because the slop at the same trough as the Republicans and are too busy trying to elbow each other away.
Having said that. I have no choice but to crawl over broken glass to vote for the Democrats, the alternative is unthinkable.
You know I really believe that CNN lowered the volume on Biden's Mike. Because I was driving with CNN on the phone and I could barely hear Biden while Trump was ok. Then I went in to watch it on TV MSNBC. It was better as I could hear him clearly but it was still low. When he ended and went offstage to talk to his supporters they gave him a mike and suddenly Biden was loud and clear. Why couldn't the sound be that good on the CNN soundstage. That doesn't make sense.
Ms. Reagan, both Trump and Biden agreed before the debate that there would be no fact checking on the floor by the moderators. Also both Bash and Tapper did push Trump to answer their questions.
However, I did notice the remarkable point about the questions concerning unions though. You might respond by saying: "But neither Bash nor Tapper mentioned the unions"
That is what is remarkable about the questions. They were not asked.
About 12% of the voting public is Black, and about 12% of the voting public is in a union. Both Bash and Tapper found the topic of Black voters important enough to ask about them. Why did they not also ask about unions? Unions have recently been enjoying a resurgence. Also Biden is the first president in history to join a picket line. He did it in Detroit.
Questions about unions were not asked because both Bash and Tapper come from that privileged class of white, entitled, upper-middle class professionals who are completely out of contact with ordinary working stiffs whose pay check barely allows them to make ends meet.
Biden, to his credit is in contact with those ordinary workers. Trump has withering contempt for wage earners and union members. Unions would have been a great topic for a question.
I posted two comments since. They are both relevant.
First comment
1) The bases will be unmoved. MAGAs gonna be MAGAs and Dems absolutely know that Trump and Project 25 are existential threats to the democracy.
2) The most important cohort - the Gen Z middle - by and large are unlikely to have watched.
3) WaPo and the NY Times will come out with another set of badly done, biased polls that drum up the horse race mentality in their complete dereliction of duty to the country. They will focus almost exclusively on Biden’s age and ignore the fact that Trump lied continuously, refused to answer at least five questions, and specifically used the same trope of refusing to accept the election unless it is fair that he used in 2020.
4) The election will be decided by women whose lives are under threat from a runaway corrupt Supreme Court and an insane MAGA caucus.
Here’s Joyce Vance’s take on the debate:
“I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November.”
Second comment
Eight years after TFG came down the escalator, what I find to be appalling and disheartening is that the media, the pundits, the commentariat are focusing exclusively on Biden’s “performance”, and ignoring the fact that
Every
Single
Word
that came out of Trump’s mouth was a lie.
That he became progressively less coherent over time. That it was all projection and frankly, abusive. His was also a “performance”, and it spoke volumes about who he is and what he will do.
Some have mentioned that Biden failed his own cognitive test.
There were two cognitive tests on display last night.
The results of one of those tests were clearly invisible to many.
The abusive, narcissistic con man (who is only three years younger) came across as such people often do to those who see only the surface. But look beneath and his word salad, his non-stop nonsensical prevarications, his hate, his adamant refusal to answer questions, his complete lack of knowledge, and his profound insecurity were all there.
Biden is old. Trump is evil.
If as is likely Trump continues to deteriorate as he has, he won’t finish his term and we’ll be left with a sycophantic coward, because that’s whom he’ll choose to be in his shadow.
If as is likely Biden deteriorates and has to step down, we will have the most experienced and competent V.P. in the history of the country - one who will continue the excellent work Joe has done.
Yeah I see where you are coming from 100%. My feeling is, even if Biden had walked on water last night, he would not have won over any Trump people. And if the independent or swing voters think Biden is too old, how do they feel about Trump's constant lies and lack of commitment to any sane policies, either foreign or domestic? Most Independents are pro-choice. Most care at least a little about the planet. Trump also abandoned the middle class on the fiduciary issue. He is hostile to unions. I think the Dems have enough points on our side to win over the independents despite one lackluster debate night (which btw not that many people watched anyhow).
My thoughts exactly!! The ‘liberal’ press was going to react exactly as they did no matter HOW Biden acted. They’ve been doing this for 31/2 yrs. Biden isn’t running out of hubris. He staving off a dictator. The job only ravages you if you truly care & do the work. He probably won’t live through the next 4 yrs., but his administration will carry on.
Edward; My wife watches the view, it is recorded, She showed me the comments, Best one was a pissing match between octogenarians, but basically gen Z is the uncommitted and they weren't watching. Gen Z females know what is at stake.
You are 100% correct. VP Harris might not have the surface flashiness of some of the brash Republican mouthpieces, that support Trump. But she has the depth, intelligence and internal fortitude to step up to the helm, should, heaven forbid, something happen that our warrior, fighting to save democracy, is unable to continue. True to form, and his character, you can bet that Biden has also channeled as much of his personal expertise as possible to Kamala, should her VP services ever become necessary. Democrats generally, and particularly Joe Biden are like that, they put the people of the country ahead of themselves. Narcissists like Trump have no understanding of that concept. It underscores why we should never want a situation to persist where the morbidly wealthy are able control the political direction of our democracy, nor it's 4th estate.
People need to calm down and stop with the "Biden needs to go" rhetoric. The man had a cold ad was hoarse. Exactly .0000001% of voters changed their mind last night over the debate. Biden voters will still vote for him; Trump voters will still vote for Trump. All Trump did was lie for the entire debate while Biden spoke intelligently, though quietly, on the real issues that matter.
Suzie I like you, I agree with you, but I don't buy excuses, They don't work, especially that cold and hoarse throat excuse, for one thing it doesn't explain him being choked up and not finishing a sentence of making sense, Trump even caught it once.
Mind are not changed by the debate, we know what is at stake, Gen Z is on their cell phones not paying attention. As said on the View it was a pissing match between octogenarians. the mods didn't do their job and/or favored Trump. Trump had too much time to talk, but Biden was held to the time limit. So much wrong, but none of it matters.
What conceerns me is that three states that were swing states last time, GA, NC, VA are no longer swing states because of Republican state legislatures passing voter suppression laws.
It rakes 270 electoral votes to win
Republicans have 235 votes sewn up
Democrats 226 votes
There are five swing states, AZ, NV, MI,Pa, WI, AZ has 10 electoral Votes, NV 6, they only come into play at the last minute.
Michigan 15, Pennyslvania 19, Wisconsin 11.
Those three states carried Biden by 10,000 each in 2020, There are 100,000 Muslims in each, an as many blacks. The Muslims have threatened to sit out the election, blacks the same or vote for Cornell West, that means Trump wins the electoral votes, if only in Michigan, Pennsylvania have 34, 235 and 34 makes 269, Biden must win 270, he starts with 226 meaning he needs 44 votes. If Trump wins Michigan and Pennsylvania the election will wind up in Congress and in Congress each state gets one vote, and there are more red states than blue states, so Trump wins.
Those are the mechanics, again the popular vote only counts state by state, as the popular vote determines who wins the states electoral votes.
If Trump wins it is because the Muslims and blacks sat on their hands or voted third party and I hope that they enjoy the concentration (holding) camps as he rounds up immigrants and even 1st generation Americans as he has threatened to do, and Trump doesn't threaten he promises.
Last time he didn't have the power to follow through on his promises, Project 2025 and Agenda 47 have rectified that deficiency.
It should not be this close; I know. Sadly there is no excuse for the Democrats letting their leadership get away. It's less the debate debacle, and more their insistence on "taking the high road." Nobody's on that road but them. There was sufficient ammo for Biden to have wiped the floor with Trump, but he didn't do it for whatever reason.
The problem is that since SCOTUS has legalized political bribery and doubled down on it. (Gratuities to government officials aren't bribes? I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning.) Both parties can talk all they want, but they don't control The Money. And without The Money, they can't win office. This is late stage capitalism.
Capitalism always aggregates into fewer and few hands over time. That's how it works. Once this process comes to full fruition, regulation is nearly impossible; the rich just buy politicians. What we are seeing now is the final spasm of freedom and outright looting of the population. Sadly, only pitchforks are going to change things.
I agree Suzie with everything. Michelle Obama has damaged the party with her refrain of When they go low we go high, that is the refrain of a loser.
There is a Scottish song that goes Ye take the high road and I'll take the load road and I'll be in Scotland afore ye"
I know we are screwed by billionaires and corporations. we have been since I've been alive, but now the billionaires and corporations have thrown in their lot with authoritarians and theocrats because they think that their money will save them, and that their money will enable them to control the authoritarians. They know nothing of history.
They let their leadership get away because they don’t care enough. Nothing is really going to change much for the Schumer’s and Pelosi’s of the Democratic Party if Trump gets elected.they go home to their gated communities and continue ur to live in their bubble. Arrogant.
Not sure I agree 100% but there IS a certain amount of status quo thinking going on. And arrogance. But mostly a sad delusion that if they are nice enough, Republicans will come around to cooperation and care for the country. Bullies don't stop bullying until you hit them hard on the shins with a wooden dowel. I can tell you this from experience. I'm speaking metaphorically in the case of Democratic politicians, but accurately in my own case. I have grown weary of the Democratic motto of: "We can't. The Republicans won't let us. They'll be mad at us."
I also like you SuZie, BUT miraculously today Biden was back to normal? Did he act old yesterday? Did he throw the debate? Will he throw the next debate? After appointing Garland, I cannot trust him!
Also, Garland has been Biden's worst mistake. We are in the situation we are in because of him and his refusal to act in a timely manner. Garland appointed Jack Smith almost TWO years into his tenure, and then appears to have given Smith little to no support. It's been four years and zip has been done about the attempted coup. If we lose our democracy, it is squarely on Garland's head. He couldn't have done worse if he had attended the Trump rallies and cheered. Biden, for his part, should have fired him six months in. I personally believe Garland is a closet MAGA Republican. Nothing else accounts for his behavior.
Biden's biggest blind spot is that he came up in politics in a time where there was a compromise, collegiality, and cooperation. He still thinks if he's nice enough he can get the Republicans to be reasonable. Obama, who should have known better, followed the same path. Republicans are not reasonable. As Biden put it Trump has the morals of an alley cat and they LIKE that because they are in that alley with him. They are sharks who smell blood in the water. Taking the high road has been foolish in this environment.
I doubt Biden threw the debate. Trump was given carte blanc by CNN to spend the entire time lying with no calling him out on it. Biden spoke the truth. Trump strutted before his audience.
I find this line of reasoning sickening. The guy has a cold and sounds hoarse for ONE NIGHT and people are screaming for him to step down? Jesus, when did the Democrats become such a bunch of lily-livered wimps?! The GOP wouldn't desert Trump after 34 FELONY CONVICTIONS. Yet one raspy night and the Democrats are wetting their pants.
You need to get a grip on voting realities. To have real guts the democrats need an open conversation and to nominate strong aggressive candidates to confront the MAGA cult and it strategists who are vicious players who do not play by any fair rules. Get real. The mainstream click bait media, Sinclair syndicate and Fox News have done a job on the public and through social media. Corporate America uses it money to put forward and elect the puppets it wants in power. So defending Joe’s performance is like the emperor’s new clothes. Yes we will vote for him and hold our breath hoping we have the votes but the GOP will contest everything and their shills on the courts will muck up the rest.
No, and no. Just NO. You don't respond to rightwing media manipulators by kowtowing to them and dumping a nominee that has been possibly the greatest president in the past 100 years. Not "defending" a performance that doesn't need defending. He had a cold, he was hoarse and didn't feel well. Trump, meanwhile, boisterously spouted his usual lies and ducked references to his own criminality. The choice is clear: BIDENHARRIS2024.
Accidental presidents have not always been bad--Teddy Roosevelt and LBJ (1963 & 64). Maybe Kamala Harris will be the next one.
I watched Kamala Harris' defense of Biden after the debate. What I kept asking myself was "where has she been for the last 4 years?". This is the person that I got behind in the 2020 primary season but then she got mired in policy wonkiness of the pundits. But now, suddently, she was back to her position of strength.
She is a logical choice and will be able to "prosecute" Trump for his work in crafting an women's healthcare mess and for his incessent lying. A spirited prosecution of the liar-in-chief may just be what we need now.
The two examples of "accidental presidents" (cute term) that you cited became president via assassination. I'm sure your not suggesting....although Kamala Harris would serve well as president. Hopefully Biden leaves office by his own volition.
Kamala's skill & intelligence is one reason I don't get very concerned about Biden's poor performance. Also, even though Biden has 8 years on me, I've noted, for at least 5 years my own cognitive abilities seem greatly diminished, late in the day, when fatigue sets in; and my voice also gets raspy. I don't think that's unusual for people in their 7th or eighth decades of life, but that doesn't mean they are not sharp throughout most of the day, or most of the time. Biden is a man driven by a compelling need to save what's left of our democracy, that's under assault, I tend to agree with the existence of that compelling threat. I also think that observing that threat, and the persistent popularity of the likes of Donald Trump, breaks statesman Biden's heart. Should Biden falter, I also think we would be in good hands, if the country were under the direction of a President Harris. Far better than in the hands of a business fraudster, convicted rapist, election cheater, serial justice obstructor, serial jury and witness tamperer, indicted for espionage and someone so self serving they would appoint radical right wingers to the Supreme Court, just to get the fundamentalist Christian vote; slipping by voters his party's hidden intent to kill regulations that keep us all safe. (Think about the overturning of Chevron Deference and know that the Roberts Court is just getting started shoving their wacky fascist ideology down Americans' collective throats. Dismantling Voting Rights & Roe v Wade was just the start of a much more sinister conservative fascist agenda, that will be implemented with Project 2025, if we don't shut down Trump & his radical insurrection loving party, first.)
George W. Bush referred to himself as 'The Decider' and that is the role of the President to make decisions. Joe Biden has done a masterful job with the decisions he has made. Look at all that has happened in the last three and a half years. Are we better off than we were four years ago. Yes.
Biden, with all of his years in the U. S. Senate, knows how to quietly get things done. Do I love all of his decisions? No, but I surely won't like anything that Trump and his Trumpettes will do to this country. And look at his understudy, Kamala Harris. She is an attorney, worked as D.A. of San Francisco, A.G for California, U.S. Senator from California and now Vice President of the U.S. Anyone Trump selects as his V.P. will be just another sycophant. Have some faith. How many times would you have been fired after one poor performance?
No, it’s too late to jump now. Biden was sick and still had the will to show up for this stressful debate. I think that shows more than anything the respect he shows for the American people. Trump, as usual, shows a total lack of respect by lying to our collective faces. Biden is still our man and perhaps he may come out later and give more speeches.
The man had a bad night. They said he would have an advantage because there was no audience for Trump to pander to but Biden is a person who also derives his energy and motivation from an audience and he was dumbstruck that he was actually forced to argue against the totally mendacious utterings of a deranged babbling freak who was merely repeating his lines from his campaign rallies. I only watched part of it but the issue is the errors in judgment on the part of the people who orchestrated the debate. They should not have agreed to such a format if the moderators were not required to address the glaring falsity of statements which everyone knew would be coming and the vicious attacks which were predictable and without any foundation in reality. Those two moderators might as well have been robots and they should have been outraged and insulted that their serious questions were utilized as a vehicle for a sick and dangerous madman to further incite a bunch of yahoos out in the hinterland. Biden was over-prepared and should have been resting instead of being coached by a lot of brainiacs. He will kill in the second debate if given that opportunity but either way, a debate is just a show and an exercise in spreading propaganda for the uninvolved and undecided. Let' see that list of flagrant lies and the facts to dispute them and get it published on the front page of a few of the big newspapers and on every website that isn't right-wing.
I agree completely. Why have a debate at all if one party lies the whole time ? This wasn’t debate at all. It was one man defending himself against a tyrant. This writing was on the wall way before this debate was scheduled.
As one activist friend put it: “CNN didn’t host a debate, they hosted a cage fight between a bully and an elder statesman.” So we’re picking up where the bully left off? Are we the mean girls, the heathers?
I agree. I think it’s appalling that democrats are not supporting Biden right now. We may not have time to vet another candidate and if Trump wins I’m afraid all will be lost.
I agree Ja one does not change horses in the middle of a stream. the DNC needs a serious overhaul, not only personnel but mission, and mentality, they need young blood, not more Tom Perez's, people who can motivate millenials, Gens X,.Y and Z and not kiss the ass of Wall Street, the donor class.
Thanks for that. The real problem is that it is futile to try to use rational arguments and reason with someone who is insane, irrational, or under the influence of some substance or mental disorder. One is talking to hear oneself talk. It was a foregone conclusion that anything Biden said was not going to have any effect except on those of us who live in the rational universe. CNN was criminally negligent in not requiring that any and all patently false statements and malicious attacks be followed with disclaimers, a recognition that they were undeserving of a response, and factual information correcting the record. It was not designed to be a debate with two debaters presenting arguments. It was set up so that Trump could ambush Biden, verbally assault him incessantly, and repeat over and over his pathological diatribes from his senseless rallies. Joe appeared to be sleep deprived and suffering from a cold and was probably inundated with information which he suddenly realized was all but irrelevant in that situation. I will add, as well, that when Thom was under the weather with COVID, he didn't do his show for two or three days. Biden showed up and gave it his best under the circumstances. Give the man a little slack.
I’m truly disappointed in this response from you Thom Hartmann.
It is very clear to me that . Lies, profound attacks on our President and our Country by a felonious convicted madman is ok as long as his ‘performance’ is ‘crisp’ .
Trump has been ‘ pardoned’ by the Supreme Court for his attempted Coup
On the U S .
It seems a trend . Trumps lies , attacks on Democracy and hate speech is normalized completely .
Biden ‘ should step down ‘ because he’s done remarkable good for this Country , at a treasonous time .
The treason , fostered by the media and The Supreme Court is rampant.
Except there are 100,000 plus Muslims in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania who are pissed off at Biden, and threaten to sit out the election or vote third party.
Biden only won those states last time by 10,000 votes each.
Blue states have 226 electoral votes and will vote for Kamala.
Red States have 235 electoral votes and will vote for Trump
There are only five swing states this election, AZ with 10 electoral Votes, NV with 6, Michigan with 15, PA with 19, WI with 11.. do the math
Mich,PA, WI, because of Muslims and black males, will go for Trump, because their loyalty is to the Ummah (google it), before anything else.
William Thank you again for your condescending lecture. I do so love them . I’m my humble opinion, Joe Biden is the best most experienced man for the job . If you go over the words said by Biden and the words said by Trump , it’s not hard to see Biden as superior presidential material , even when not feeling well.
This absolute jump to ‘ sit Biden down’ Plays right into the hands of Maga instruments , such as the once too often Biased New York Times. I ‘ve cancelled that subscription. Biden is an elderly man , but he has not lost his touch with reality. He knows the job he’s done very well at the job . But any minute now he’ll probably no longer know anything . Please .
Appearances in this country seem to dominate common sense.
Joe Biden has in the past few weeks flown to and from many time zones . He is also attending to the campaign and his family . He cares about people . It shows . You all thinking to replace Biden apparently do not remember 1968
. The last time this hyper reactivity made the decision to place a new individial the position to become the presidential candidate . How did that work out for the Democrats ?
Not well.
I think it should be noted that sometimes we can learn from history .
Who do all you people have in mind to run in Bidens place ? I’m sure the transition would be smooth . Not . The chaos in this country , the Rogue Supreme Court , Trump the destroyer. Pawn of Putin .
Leave it alone . Biden is the best man for the job .
This was just one more example of the American obsession with form over substance. Trump is all form, and most of it lies, delivered with an aura of strength and confidence that masks the lack of substance and lies. We need a president who can work consistently for the American people, not a polished reality TV phony. I don’t require a president who is a smooth (lying) orator, I need to know my president understands our situation, who surrounds himself with competent experts and who will listen to good advice. Sorry folks, I am not fooled by MAGA lies and bullying.
Last night the Governor of California did an outstanding job of analyzing last night’s debate.
He’s extremely knowledgeable intelligent and a fantastic debatir. He may lack some international experience but as in every presidency he will be surrounded by experienced advisors
Thom, replacing Biden, based on his uncharacteristically poor performance, would be a major mistake. It would speak to a party that is remarkably insecure in its ability to lead and govern. Biden had an off-night. But he and the Democratic party can run effectively on his and their achievements and contrast them with the dysfunctional system that they inherited from Trump. This is the time for Democrats to double-down and not quit.
Elliott as I responded to Patricia Lang. The only question is what is the best way, what has to be done to keep Trump out of power so he doesn't initiated Project 2025 and Agenda 47, all of this personal and personality stuff is irrelevant The only thing I care about is Trump staying TFG, and RFK, Cornell Est and Jill Stein driffing back into ignominy
I profoundly disagree. Biden was one of us last night. The common man against the bully.
I liked your comment, Cassandra Here, because I know your premise is true.
President Obama picked Joe as VP because he knew he was decent and an expert on many things, but most of all because he would heal the nation if the worst happened to him. The other Dem candidates in 2020 stepped-off and endorsed Biden for the exact same reasons.
The ball is in his court, and I hope President Biden and the Democrats figure out the decent thing to do. We need to know the truth about if he can handle 4 more years.
Irrelevant Cassandra. Irrelevant if he loses. Life isn't kind to losers. And if he loses life won't be kind to you or me either.
I have been getting bad vibes off of Biden since he did not fire Garland for letting the traitors walk! It cost us the Congress and control of the Supreme Court possibly. Actually I've never been a fan of Biden. He has been too much of a Reagan Democrat, a republican plant, a Dino! I think it is very possible he threw this debate on purpose! He has done great things for the nation the last four years and has made the rich richer but has failed to protect democracy consistently!!! I like Bernie Sanders.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, even truly stupid ones like yours. And Bernie is 82.
Bernie is a liberal they get wiser with age. You have no facts to debate your defense of Biden upon. You sound like a Russian troll!
Sticks and stones, Bob. I know and love Bernie. And there are plenty of facts in Biden’s favor, except that people and the media are treating this like a stupid game show. Biden has very arguably had the best 3+ years any President has had since Eisenhower. Just vote for Trump and see how that works out.
David, regardless of how the media treats it. The only important thing is who will be 47. If Bidens performance, in the last 3+ years, and on TV last night, and his presence, his charisma are enough then all else is irrelevant, otherwise it is end of freedom as we know it.
Unfortunately people pull the lever based on perceptions, not facts.
You will vote for a right winger long before I will! Biden is too far right for me! That is my proof!
Then you will end up with a Fascist. Be ready for the relocation camp. 🙄
Well, that’s good, but I am 72, haven’t voted for a Repug yet, and ain’t starting now. However, in my 1st Presidential election, I voted for Linda Jenness of the Socialist Workers Party because George McGovern made such a mess of a campaign (Thomas Eagleton, etc., etc.).
No, RT ran Russian trolls. I ran a Bernie progressive FB page; it was clear what was showing up there. But that was then; let’s be wiser now.
Well, RT was one of the few places that actually gave a voice to some of the more left voices, such as Chris Hedges, Dr. Wolff. While I have been sorely disappointed in how Dr. Hedges has been saying lately, and of course, the turning of a few others (thinking of Greenwood and other other author I can't think of his name off hand), that channel was far less dangerous than Fox and even most of the propaganda networks called 'main stream media.' Trolls are everywhere. Here, too.
I agree, but RT did not give a rip about what was good for democracy. RT’s work was done once they so thoroughly divided liberals into tribes they could manage.
How much better it would have been had we just talked with each other about our differences and stopped looking for utopian perfection. That’s what RT did, it drove us into extremes. And we felt righteous in and empowered by our own narratives.
And RT loved, loved, loved Bernie. And now that we know what was going on with RT, we know what weakened the voter base.
So, you'd rather have Trump?
Wonder how Bernie would feel about that.
So you would rather have Trump than Biden? Cuz that is what you're going to get! We have to vote blue, that includes Biden lovers! Not just Bernie lovers. I'm open to Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, Gavin newsom or any other Democrat also!
With "She's not fit," Bernie caused Hillary to lose to Trump. Oh, a lot of Bernie supports did vote for her, but a lot sat out or voted for Putin-buddy Stein.
No, Hillary was just not a great candidate. While she is a wonderful politician, and certainly well qualified, the extremist right had for years pounded away to make far too many either distrustful or outright hateful of the Clintons (unjustly). Comey certainly did his damage with that last minute 'reopening the investigation' - but certainly, it was the main stream media that liked the clicks and the glitz that trump brought to their bottom lines, rather than a commitment to education the public - a failure of their duties. And let's not forget, the manipulation that drump did to 'catch and kill' the stories that likely would have busted his chances of winning back then. Now, sadly, the Magas have lost all sense of morality and decency, but back then, I think it might have made a difference.
And the underpinning for all that was misogyny. Did you not see the "Bern the Witch" t-shirts?
The election is too important to bail on Biden because of one less-than-spectacular performance. With friends like Democrats, who needs enemies? I am so sick of Dems tearing their hair and wailing over every bump in the road that the media turns into a feeding frenzy. Just buck the f up and get to work registering new Democrats (Field Team 6) and getting out the vote in ALL the ways we have to do that. Only half of those eligible to vote in this country show up. Le't change THAT, not our candidate.
Sheesh, folks put out your helmet fires; we have work to do. Biden’s old and fine. He’s an elder statesman who had a cold, that’s it. Dems!?!
In my opinion, Biden's difficulty could have been too much prepping for the debate in combination with too little sleep. In addition, fatigue could have been a part of his speech issues.
I totally agree. He was fine after he walked over to the people waiting for him. And when he took the mike his speech was loud and clear. I am suspicious that CNN lowered the volume of his debate mike because the difference in volume was so different. CNN has gone Right Wing and I don't trust them anymore.
NYT piled on and immediately released an editorial telling Biden he has to go for the good of the country. They were just salivating and could even give it 24 hours. I'd like someone to tell me with a straight face, they aren't in the tank for Trump.
The NYT, at least its writers, have been down on Biden for a long time.
It is more than a cold Cassandra, he walked on stage stiff legged, that is the way he walks now, as if he has a brace and arthritis. Trump bounded on energetic, angry and in attack mode.
There are two classes of voters, the committed and the uncommitted. The committed will not be swayed, be that Trump, RFK, Jill Stein, Cornell West or Trump, it is the handful of uncommitted that are up for grabs and the uncommitted this election, I fear are of no account, as the election will be lost,(won by Trump in default) in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania because of the Muslim and the black (younger male) vote.
These are Swing states,crucial swing states, and each has over 100,000 Muslims and even more blacks, the Muslims have threatened to sit out the election, the blacks will either vote for Trump, Cornell West or sit on their hands.
Biden won each of those states by 10,000 votes each in 2020,
And are you working for an outcome that won’t destroy democracy, or just moaning about Biden’s performance. Me? I’ve been up since 4:30 a.m. working on getting the info out there and getting the voters out. Went to bed last night at midnight. Been working like hell since 2015, and I’m pretty damned sick of folks telling me what won’t work and who won’t vote. Nice encouragement here.
Biden is not the issue. The only issue on the table is defeating Trump. Nothing else matters. I don't care if he can ride a bike, totally irrelevant, but the question is if riding the Biden horse will result in Trump 47..
The Democratic convention is in August, Kamala is not carrying the Israeli baggage that is driving the Muslims and blacks to sit out the election or vote third party.
Well, then - someone needs to communicate to all those Muslims and Blacks what their life is going to be like under the new GQP regime and Project 2025. I think all that is fake bullshit the media wants to pump anyway. Are 'blacks and muslims' really that stupid?
t is not fake, I have heard them on the TV, Muslims and Blacks, and TV hosts like Ayman Mohleydin, Mehdi Hassan was so strident that he was shown the door on MSNBC.
It is not a matter of being stupid, it is a matter of showing your ass, I heard one spokesman speak of 2028 like they will teach the Democrats a lesson in 2024, and they will come around in 2028.
Lots of Luck with that if Trump wins. 2028 will be a Orban/Putin style election.
Ironic if Trump wins, there will be a real international culture war, if Muslims think that there is western hostility to Islam now, wait till Trump wins., Netanyahu is hedging his bet that he can hang on till Trump wins the election, as he and Trump are brothers from another mother, and the Israel right wing and American right wing are butt buddies, only question is who is the top and who is the bottom.
Hopefully the full effect of electing Trump will be apparent to all by November. Unfortunately the 2025 project is too long for most of our voters to read. But media do try to get it's points across before November. You have it correct about arthritis but that does not affect the brain. FDR was in a wheel chair reinventing our governmenn the 1930s.
There is no need to have people to read Project 2025, just bullet points will do, stuff that fits on bumper stickers.
As regards arthritis, correct FDR was in a wheel chair, Gov Abbott is in a wheel chair.
Americans expect their presidents to be faultless.
He is still riding his bike, so there’s that.
Remember all the ills that JFK had. FDR had polio. I'm 72. I don't walk like I used to, and sometimes I'm not as quick as I used to be. But that makes me no less moral, honest, or reliable. This is our choice right now. in 2028 we can work on Pete Buttegeig or Gavin Newsum, or any other rising young star, but this is 2024. We cannot fail.
FDR's polio was hidden, and the press was different then, it knew by for the good of the country, not shareholder value, never mentioned or exposed his difficulty, same with JFK, we didn't learn of his disease until 40 or 50 years after his death.
I have a problem with value judgements, for instance The Trump cult consider him to be moral., and reliable to usher in a right wing theocracy.
I am not a fan of Buttigeg, he should have visited East Palestine the day of the train wreck, he is too wishy washy, indecisive and flows like water, downhill, not a leader. Gavin Newsom has baggage as well. My favorite is Greg Whitmer, but the Democratic party will not select a woman, Hillary was an exception because of her public image, and credentials.
The only thing that is important this election is keeping Trump out of the White House. Biden is irrelevant, he beat Trump in 2020 when a head of cabbage could have beaten Trump. Biden is president by default, because a record breaking 81 million peple showed up to cast an Anti Trump ballot.
We need that an more this year, but we have the disability that Muslims have said that they aren't going to vote for Biden, and they have enough registered voters in these states to swing the electoral college to Trump, blacks, specifically millennial's and Gen x,y, z blacks have stated there distaste with the Democrats, for the same reason as the Muslims and for not giving them all of their wishes.. on top of that there is Hispanic flight to the Republicans, Hispanics are cultural conservatives.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/muslim-population-by-state
well then, 'god' help us - they'll get what they deserve.
This is the major Democratic weakness, running around hysterical instead of attacking back. They only need to pretend Trump is a Progressive and they will be able to attack him fine which they seldom do to Republicans. And they need to get behind Biden solidly. Reminds me of the Al Franken fiasco where there was a accusation and instead of investigating they went hysterical and forced him to resign for the good of the Party. He would have been the Senator questioning Kavenaugh. They blew it big-time. And the woman was a right Wing radio host from KABC. Dems are unstrategic, hysterical and fractured unfortunately. They don't know how to fight the Christofascists. They need to utilize the NeverTrumpers for attack and pull themselves together. Biden is fine so support him.
Yeah; I'm sick of Dems resigning at the tiniest bit of flap. Frankin should have done what the republipukes do. Repent, say they're sorry, they've been forgiven, and go on to be elected to ever higher offices.
@Rochelle. https://www.fieldteam6.org/
I AGREE! We must form lockstep for the first times in our lives, in order to win this WAR, because that is what it is. A war against the people, against democracy, and against the future of the United States of America.
How about Jill Biden? She could make the transition smoothly and avoid bad feelings. Also
Joe Biden would still be in the White House!
Couldn’t DISAGREE more. Are Trumpers considering dumping their liar & felon???
Next move is calling out CNN for not addressing the constant flow of lies and refusal to answer the questions by one candidate.
I saw Jon Stewart say a few weeks ago that "Feelings don't care about your facts" regarding something else, but I saw someone reference it today. I fear that the fact checking and calling out CNN will be too late. It also doesn't matter what the candidates said but how they looked. Thom has pointed it out (and often) that Biden has done a fantastic job, but one bad night may have doomed us all.
Bret,I heard someone say on TV, that Biden was making a mistake telling people how well off they are, especially when they have to pay $4 a gallon for gas and $4 for a loaf of bread, neither are his fault, and the president has no control over prices or inflation, none but they keep acting and talking like they do, so they suffer when they spiral out of control.
The Fed actually controls inflation, the fed and producers and middle men who gouge. Gouging , at this time, favors Trump, Trump favors deregulation. It is simple, but it can't be explained simply,not with an ignorant populace.
Facts vs Feelings, feelings win every time. Humans are emotional and illogical critters
Just read the comments on this thread..
So why don't Democrats talk about the Price Gouging Bill that they attempted to pass during the gas hikes? The Republicans shot it down but it could return if you all voted Blue. Give Biden Congress and see what happens. Certain Supreme Court criminals could be impeached. Many things could be fixed. Unless the Democrats rally behind Biden, Trump will win.
Price gouging is only one of many things they should have in their ads.
The Dems are rallying around Biden. The problem is the Swing States and the 100,000 or so Muslims who live in Wisconsin, Michigan,Pennsylvania who have said that they won't vote for Biden because of Israel. Biden only won those states by 10,000 votes in 2020.. do the math.
The first loyalty to a Muslim is not the country that gives them succor, the country they fled or migrated to because of it's freedoms and opportunities they didn't have at home
No their first loyalty is to the Ummah (google it), they will sink America out of pique, then whine when Trump deports their asses as part of the 11 million.
Deregulation and monopolistic control of the markets and supply chains, in its most recent iteration was laid out by Reaganomics, it is what has gotten us into repeated problems with inflation. Monopolies are now so powerful they can blunt inflationary control by the Fed. and sway political races. A president Trump would do what every Republican since Nixon has done, exacerbate these monopoly & deregulation generated problems, just as Trump did his first time around. President Biden is the first president, in decades to pursue corporate greed with anti-trust enforcement, to any meaningful degree. (It's the only way possible to control "greedflation" but, it takes time to undo, what corporate America, and mostly the GOP, have done to damage American consumers, over many decades.) This problem was turned into a crisis with the Citizens United SCOTUS sanctioning of political bribery. As a result, 12 years later, corporate America has taken over total ownership of the Republican party and is working over the Democratic party, as much as it can. There are MAGA followers that have legitimate complaints, but unfortunately, they are being misled by the corporate owned GOP operatives that have infiltrated our media, intent upon shifting the blame away from corporate greed and monopolized media, where it belongs, to groups with little political power, minorities, immigrants, ethnicities, etc. Excess oligarch greed doesn't concern itself with floating all boats, it is determined to sink the boats of those not part of their elite GOP ruling class. It is willing to use all manner of trickery to meet their goals
A misguided ideology, if ever there was one, many of these elements have long been part of the historical fascist playbook.
His only mistake is not explaining how 60 years of republican policies and obstruction and giveaways to corporate interests are the real reason, plus corporate GREED, are the causes of all their pain. and the housing crisis? because we have allowed the bloated wealthy to steal and extract ever more profits from the working class, thus allowing them all that 'cash' to run around using any means possible to increase their wealth ever more (vulture capitalists - equity vultures, etc.) instead of taxing away those excess profits and using it to better everyone's lives - and by outlining exactly what those taxes do; streets, bridges, eliminating lead pipes, protecting drinking water and our food supply that seems to have a recall every day now, not to mention our education system, and our failed health care delivery system. Yes, we must do like those litte Chick Publication tracts put out by the radical christian evangelicals, and show the horrors of what awaits us if we don't keep democracy.
He couldn't do that on stage in the allotted time, and the Democratic party can't do that, because the slop at the same trough as the Republicans and are too busy trying to elbow each other away.
Having said that. I have no choice but to crawl over broken glass to vote for the Democrats, the alternative is unthinkable.
Totally agree with you on both points!
And I will continue to call out CNN for their moderator’s vapid performance. They were more like bystanders.
You know I really believe that CNN lowered the volume on Biden's Mike. Because I was driving with CNN on the phone and I could barely hear Biden while Trump was ok. Then I went in to watch it on TV MSNBC. It was better as I could hear him clearly but it was still low. When he ended and went offstage to talk to his supporters they gave him a mike and suddenly Biden was loud and clear. Why couldn't the sound be that good on the CNN soundstage. That doesn't make sense.
I tend to avoid conspiracy theories, but as they go, this one's a good one and I wouldn't put it past them.
Ms. Reagan, both Trump and Biden agreed before the debate that there would be no fact checking on the floor by the moderators. Also both Bash and Tapper did push Trump to answer their questions.
However, I did notice the remarkable point about the questions concerning unions though. You might respond by saying: "But neither Bash nor Tapper mentioned the unions"
That is what is remarkable about the questions. They were not asked.
About 12% of the voting public is Black, and about 12% of the voting public is in a union. Both Bash and Tapper found the topic of Black voters important enough to ask about them. Why did they not also ask about unions? Unions have recently been enjoying a resurgence. Also Biden is the first president in history to join a picket line. He did it in Detroit.
Questions about unions were not asked because both Bash and Tapper come from that privileged class of white, entitled, upper-middle class professionals who are completely out of contact with ordinary working stiffs whose pay check barely allows them to make ends meet.
Biden, to his credit is in contact with those ordinary workers. Trump has withering contempt for wage earners and union members. Unions would have been a great topic for a question.
Bash and Tapper, must want a dictatorship? It sounds like they were promoting dividing the races to me? That goes with they're not fact checking also.
CNN's handling of the debate was an absolute disgrace. How difficult was it to fact check Trumps lies?
I posted two comments since. They are both relevant.
First comment
1) The bases will be unmoved. MAGAs gonna be MAGAs and Dems absolutely know that Trump and Project 25 are existential threats to the democracy.
2) The most important cohort - the Gen Z middle - by and large are unlikely to have watched.
3) WaPo and the NY Times will come out with another set of badly done, biased polls that drum up the horse race mentality in their complete dereliction of duty to the country. They will focus almost exclusively on Biden’s age and ignore the fact that Trump lied continuously, refused to answer at least five questions, and specifically used the same trope of refusing to accept the election unless it is fair that he used in 2020.
4) The election will be decided by women whose lives are under threat from a runaway corrupt Supreme Court and an insane MAGA caucus.
Here’s Joyce Vance’s take on the debate:
“I’ll let the political analysts and the pollsters assess the debate's impact and leave you with an encouraging conversation I had tonight. I asked some young people if they and their friends were paying attention to the debate. The bottom line was that while some of them wanted to watch it, most people weren’t paying attention—the election is still too far away. But when I asked whether they were going to vote for Biden, the response was clear: “Of course.” Sure, they think Biden is old. They don’t like all of his policies. But, “We’re not stupid,” they told me. “We understand what’s at stake.” These young people, who get that they have the most to lose if Trump wins, are prepared to do what’s necessary in November.”
Second comment
Eight years after TFG came down the escalator, what I find to be appalling and disheartening is that the media, the pundits, the commentariat are focusing exclusively on Biden’s “performance”, and ignoring the fact that
Every
Single
Word
that came out of Trump’s mouth was a lie.
That he became progressively less coherent over time. That it was all projection and frankly, abusive. His was also a “performance”, and it spoke volumes about who he is and what he will do.
Some have mentioned that Biden failed his own cognitive test.
There were two cognitive tests on display last night.
The results of one of those tests were clearly invisible to many.
The abusive, narcissistic con man (who is only three years younger) came across as such people often do to those who see only the surface. But look beneath and his word salad, his non-stop nonsensical prevarications, his hate, his adamant refusal to answer questions, his complete lack of knowledge, and his profound insecurity were all there.
Biden is old. Trump is evil.
If as is likely Trump continues to deteriorate as he has, he won’t finish his term and we’ll be left with a sycophantic coward, because that’s whom he’ll choose to be in his shadow.
If as is likely Biden deteriorates and has to step down, we will have the most experienced and competent V.P. in the history of the country - one who will continue the excellent work Joe has done.
There is only one choice.
Yeah I see where you are coming from 100%. My feeling is, even if Biden had walked on water last night, he would not have won over any Trump people. And if the independent or swing voters think Biden is too old, how do they feel about Trump's constant lies and lack of commitment to any sane policies, either foreign or domestic? Most Independents are pro-choice. Most care at least a little about the planet. Trump also abandoned the middle class on the fiduciary issue. He is hostile to unions. I think the Dems have enough points on our side to win over the independents despite one lackluster debate night (which btw not that many people watched anyhow).
Hoorah Joyce and Edward! My and many many others thoughts emphatically!
My thoughts exactly!! The ‘liberal’ press was going to react exactly as they did no matter HOW Biden acted. They’ve been doing this for 31/2 yrs. Biden isn’t running out of hubris. He staving off a dictator. The job only ravages you if you truly care & do the work. He probably won’t live through the next 4 yrs., but his administration will carry on.
Sue, It looks to me like Biden is bringing the ship, dictatorship, to port and docking it gently?
Edward; My wife watches the view, it is recorded, She showed me the comments, Best one was a pissing match between octogenarians, but basically gen Z is the uncommitted and they weren't watching. Gen Z females know what is at stake.
You are 100% correct. VP Harris might not have the surface flashiness of some of the brash Republican mouthpieces, that support Trump. But she has the depth, intelligence and internal fortitude to step up to the helm, should, heaven forbid, something happen that our warrior, fighting to save democracy, is unable to continue. True to form, and his character, you can bet that Biden has also channeled as much of his personal expertise as possible to Kamala, should her VP services ever become necessary. Democrats generally, and particularly Joe Biden are like that, they put the people of the country ahead of themselves. Narcissists like Trump have no understanding of that concept. It underscores why we should never want a situation to persist where the morbidly wealthy are able control the political direction of our democracy, nor it's 4th estate.
Exactly .0000001% of voters changed their mind over the debate last night.
People need to calm down and stop with the "Biden needs to go" rhetoric. The man had a cold ad was hoarse. Exactly .0000001% of voters changed their mind last night over the debate. Biden voters will still vote for him; Trump voters will still vote for Trump. All Trump did was lie for the entire debate while Biden spoke intelligently, though quietly, on the real issues that matter.
Suzie I like you, I agree with you, but I don't buy excuses, They don't work, especially that cold and hoarse throat excuse, for one thing it doesn't explain him being choked up and not finishing a sentence of making sense, Trump even caught it once.
Mind are not changed by the debate, we know what is at stake, Gen Z is on their cell phones not paying attention. As said on the View it was a pissing match between octogenarians. the mods didn't do their job and/or favored Trump. Trump had too much time to talk, but Biden was held to the time limit. So much wrong, but none of it matters.
What conceerns me is that three states that were swing states last time, GA, NC, VA are no longer swing states because of Republican state legislatures passing voter suppression laws.
It rakes 270 electoral votes to win
Republicans have 235 votes sewn up
Democrats 226 votes
There are five swing states, AZ, NV, MI,Pa, WI, AZ has 10 electoral Votes, NV 6, they only come into play at the last minute.
Michigan 15, Pennyslvania 19, Wisconsin 11.
Those three states carried Biden by 10,000 each in 2020, There are 100,000 Muslims in each, an as many blacks. The Muslims have threatened to sit out the election, blacks the same or vote for Cornell West, that means Trump wins the electoral votes, if only in Michigan, Pennsylvania have 34, 235 and 34 makes 269, Biden must win 270, he starts with 226 meaning he needs 44 votes. If Trump wins Michigan and Pennsylvania the election will wind up in Congress and in Congress each state gets one vote, and there are more red states than blue states, so Trump wins.
Those are the mechanics, again the popular vote only counts state by state, as the popular vote determines who wins the states electoral votes.
If Trump wins it is because the Muslims and blacks sat on their hands or voted third party and I hope that they enjoy the concentration (holding) camps as he rounds up immigrants and even 1st generation Americans as he has threatened to do, and Trump doesn't threaten he promises.
Last time he didn't have the power to follow through on his promises, Project 2025 and Agenda 47 have rectified that deficiency.
It should not be this close; I know. Sadly there is no excuse for the Democrats letting their leadership get away. It's less the debate debacle, and more their insistence on "taking the high road." Nobody's on that road but them. There was sufficient ammo for Biden to have wiped the floor with Trump, but he didn't do it for whatever reason.
The problem is that since SCOTUS has legalized political bribery and doubled down on it. (Gratuities to government officials aren't bribes? I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning.) Both parties can talk all they want, but they don't control The Money. And without The Money, they can't win office. This is late stage capitalism.
Capitalism always aggregates into fewer and few hands over time. That's how it works. Once this process comes to full fruition, regulation is nearly impossible; the rich just buy politicians. What we are seeing now is the final spasm of freedom and outright looting of the population. Sadly, only pitchforks are going to change things.
I agree Suzie with everything. Michelle Obama has damaged the party with her refrain of When they go low we go high, that is the refrain of a loser.
There is a Scottish song that goes Ye take the high road and I'll take the load road and I'll be in Scotland afore ye"
I know we are screwed by billionaires and corporations. we have been since I've been alive, but now the billionaires and corporations have thrown in their lot with authoritarians and theocrats because they think that their money will save them, and that their money will enable them to control the authoritarians. They know nothing of history.
They let their leadership get away because they don’t care enough. Nothing is really going to change much for the Schumer’s and Pelosi’s of the Democratic Party if Trump gets elected.they go home to their gated communities and continue ur to live in their bubble. Arrogant.
Not sure I agree 100% but there IS a certain amount of status quo thinking going on. And arrogance. But mostly a sad delusion that if they are nice enough, Republicans will come around to cooperation and care for the country. Bullies don't stop bullying until you hit them hard on the shins with a wooden dowel. I can tell you this from experience. I'm speaking metaphorically in the case of Democratic politicians, but accurately in my own case. I have grown weary of the Democratic motto of: "We can't. The Republicans won't let us. They'll be mad at us."
Exactly.
I also like you SuZie, BUT miraculously today Biden was back to normal? Did he act old yesterday? Did he throw the debate? Will he throw the next debate? After appointing Garland, I cannot trust him!
Also, Garland has been Biden's worst mistake. We are in the situation we are in because of him and his refusal to act in a timely manner. Garland appointed Jack Smith almost TWO years into his tenure, and then appears to have given Smith little to no support. It's been four years and zip has been done about the attempted coup. If we lose our democracy, it is squarely on Garland's head. He couldn't have done worse if he had attended the Trump rallies and cheered. Biden, for his part, should have fired him six months in. I personally believe Garland is a closet MAGA Republican. Nothing else accounts for his behavior.
Biden's biggest blind spot is that he came up in politics in a time where there was a compromise, collegiality, and cooperation. He still thinks if he's nice enough he can get the Republicans to be reasonable. Obama, who should have known better, followed the same path. Republicans are not reasonable. As Biden put it Trump has the morals of an alley cat and they LIKE that because they are in that alley with him. They are sharks who smell blood in the water. Taking the high road has been foolish in this environment.
I doubt Biden threw the debate. Trump was given carte blanc by CNN to spend the entire time lying with no calling him out on it. Biden spoke the truth. Trump strutted before his audience.
And CNN, MSNBC owe the American people an apology. Remember: pundits are paid to panic; headline writers, to hype.
I find this line of reasoning sickening. The guy has a cold and sounds hoarse for ONE NIGHT and people are screaming for him to step down? Jesus, when did the Democrats become such a bunch of lily-livered wimps?! The GOP wouldn't desert Trump after 34 FELONY CONVICTIONS. Yet one raspy night and the Democrats are wetting their pants.
Get a grip, guys!
You need to get a grip on voting realities. To have real guts the democrats need an open conversation and to nominate strong aggressive candidates to confront the MAGA cult and it strategists who are vicious players who do not play by any fair rules. Get real. The mainstream click bait media, Sinclair syndicate and Fox News have done a job on the public and through social media. Corporate America uses it money to put forward and elect the puppets it wants in power. So defending Joe’s performance is like the emperor’s new clothes. Yes we will vote for him and hold our breath hoping we have the votes but the GOP will contest everything and their shills on the courts will muck up the rest.
No, and no. Just NO. You don't respond to rightwing media manipulators by kowtowing to them and dumping a nominee that has been possibly the greatest president in the past 100 years. Not "defending" a performance that doesn't need defending. He had a cold, he was hoarse and didn't feel well. Trump, meanwhile, boisterously spouted his usual lies and ducked references to his own criminality. The choice is clear: BIDENHARRIS2024.
Accidental presidents have not always been bad--Teddy Roosevelt and LBJ (1963 & 64). Maybe Kamala Harris will be the next one.
I watched Kamala Harris' defense of Biden after the debate. What I kept asking myself was "where has she been for the last 4 years?". This is the person that I got behind in the 2020 primary season but then she got mired in policy wonkiness of the pundits. But now, suddently, she was back to her position of strength.
She is a logical choice and will be able to "prosecute" Trump for his work in crafting an women's healthcare mess and for his incessent lying. A spirited prosecution of the liar-in-chief may just be what we need now.
I could not agree more Dr. Doug!!!
IF Joe must go then give the top job to her. She will tear out that fucking liars throat on national television.
I am not a CNN viewer and now more than ever I will never watch anything that they do or say again!
She’s been very active both domestically & diplomatically, but our press couldn’t be bothered to cover her.
No horse race Sue, no controversy, no clicks, no eyeballs, no ads, no ads no money, no money no jobs, no careers, no profits, no share holder value.
Kamala’s been there all along. And she’s become stronger along the way due to her tutelage by the masterful statesman, President Biden.
The two examples of "accidental presidents" (cute term) that you cited became president via assassination. I'm sure your not suggesting....although Kamala Harris would serve well as president. Hopefully Biden leaves office by his own volition.
Of course not.
Kamala's skill & intelligence is one reason I don't get very concerned about Biden's poor performance. Also, even though Biden has 8 years on me, I've noted, for at least 5 years my own cognitive abilities seem greatly diminished, late in the day, when fatigue sets in; and my voice also gets raspy. I don't think that's unusual for people in their 7th or eighth decades of life, but that doesn't mean they are not sharp throughout most of the day, or most of the time. Biden is a man driven by a compelling need to save what's left of our democracy, that's under assault, I tend to agree with the existence of that compelling threat. I also think that observing that threat, and the persistent popularity of the likes of Donald Trump, breaks statesman Biden's heart. Should Biden falter, I also think we would be in good hands, if the country were under the direction of a President Harris. Far better than in the hands of a business fraudster, convicted rapist, election cheater, serial justice obstructor, serial jury and witness tamperer, indicted for espionage and someone so self serving they would appoint radical right wingers to the Supreme Court, just to get the fundamentalist Christian vote; slipping by voters his party's hidden intent to kill regulations that keep us all safe. (Think about the overturning of Chevron Deference and know that the Roberts Court is just getting started shoving their wacky fascist ideology down Americans' collective throats. Dismantling Voting Rights & Roe v Wade was just the start of a much more sinister conservative fascist agenda, that will be implemented with Project 2025, if we don't shut down Trump & his radical insurrection loving party, first.)
Dr Doug Gilbert, I liked Gerald Ford as an accidental President also!
Completely disagree. Biden stays.
George W. Bush referred to himself as 'The Decider' and that is the role of the President to make decisions. Joe Biden has done a masterful job with the decisions he has made. Look at all that has happened in the last three and a half years. Are we better off than we were four years ago. Yes.
Biden, with all of his years in the U. S. Senate, knows how to quietly get things done. Do I love all of his decisions? No, but I surely won't like anything that Trump and his Trumpettes will do to this country. And look at his understudy, Kamala Harris. She is an attorney, worked as D.A. of San Francisco, A.G for California, U.S. Senator from California and now Vice President of the U.S. Anyone Trump selects as his V.P. will be just another sycophant. Have some faith. How many times would you have been fired after one poor performance?
No, it’s too late to jump now. Biden was sick and still had the will to show up for this stressful debate. I think that shows more than anything the respect he shows for the American people. Trump, as usual, shows a total lack of respect by lying to our collective faces. Biden is still our man and perhaps he may come out later and give more speeches.
This is the true story 💯
The man had a bad night. They said he would have an advantage because there was no audience for Trump to pander to but Biden is a person who also derives his energy and motivation from an audience and he was dumbstruck that he was actually forced to argue against the totally mendacious utterings of a deranged babbling freak who was merely repeating his lines from his campaign rallies. I only watched part of it but the issue is the errors in judgment on the part of the people who orchestrated the debate. They should not have agreed to such a format if the moderators were not required to address the glaring falsity of statements which everyone knew would be coming and the vicious attacks which were predictable and without any foundation in reality. Those two moderators might as well have been robots and they should have been outraged and insulted that their serious questions were utilized as a vehicle for a sick and dangerous madman to further incite a bunch of yahoos out in the hinterland. Biden was over-prepared and should have been resting instead of being coached by a lot of brainiacs. He will kill in the second debate if given that opportunity but either way, a debate is just a show and an exercise in spreading propaganda for the uninvolved and undecided. Let' see that list of flagrant lies and the facts to dispute them and get it published on the front page of a few of the big newspapers and on every website that isn't right-wing.
I agree completely. Why have a debate at all if one party lies the whole time ? This wasn’t debate at all. It was one man defending himself against a tyrant. This writing was on the wall way before this debate was scheduled.
As one activist friend put it: “CNN didn’t host a debate, they hosted a cage fight between a bully and an elder statesman.” So we’re picking up where the bully left off? Are we the mean girls, the heathers?
I agree. I think it’s appalling that democrats are not supporting Biden right now. We may not have time to vet another candidate and if Trump wins I’m afraid all will be lost.
I agree Ja one does not change horses in the middle of a stream. the DNC needs a serious overhaul, not only personnel but mission, and mentality, they need young blood, not more Tom Perez's, people who can motivate millenials, Gens X,.Y and Z and not kiss the ass of Wall Street, the donor class.
Send this out to amplify how much trump lied in the debate. Too bad there wasn’t a visual of the lies posted on screen behind the candidates.
https://youtu.be/15VP8dn93b0?si=_Vxci5KQr89fkcxn
Thanks for that. The real problem is that it is futile to try to use rational arguments and reason with someone who is insane, irrational, or under the influence of some substance or mental disorder. One is talking to hear oneself talk. It was a foregone conclusion that anything Biden said was not going to have any effect except on those of us who live in the rational universe. CNN was criminally negligent in not requiring that any and all patently false statements and malicious attacks be followed with disclaimers, a recognition that they were undeserving of a response, and factual information correcting the record. It was not designed to be a debate with two debaters presenting arguments. It was set up so that Trump could ambush Biden, verbally assault him incessantly, and repeat over and over his pathological diatribes from his senseless rallies. Joe appeared to be sleep deprived and suffering from a cold and was probably inundated with information which he suddenly realized was all but irrelevant in that situation. I will add, as well, that when Thom was under the weather with COVID, he didn't do his show for two or three days. Biden showed up and gave it his best under the circumstances. Give the man a little slack.
I’m truly disappointed in this response from you Thom Hartmann.
It is very clear to me that . Lies, profound attacks on our President and our Country by a felonious convicted madman is ok as long as his ‘performance’ is ‘crisp’ .
Trump has been ‘ pardoned’ by the Supreme Court for his attempted Coup
On the U S .
It seems a trend . Trumps lies , attacks on Democracy and hate speech is normalized completely .
Biden ‘ should step down ‘ because he’s done remarkable good for this Country , at a treasonous time .
The treason , fostered by the media and The Supreme Court is rampant.
It’s sad that delivery trumps truth .
Biden should precisely not ‘ step down ‘
Maybe we as a country, should step up
Patricia moralizing will not save Democracy. Re election is not a reward. We make a mistake when we personalize things.
Biden is no more important to the scheme of things as you and I.
The only real questions is how do we keep Trump from becoming #47.
Nothing else matters. nothing else.
What action has the best chance of keeping Trump out of the White House and putting Project 25 and Agenda 47 into effect.
Reelecting Biden has the best chance...and it's obvious...switch horses now and you hand trump the win
Except there are 100,000 plus Muslims in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania who are pissed off at Biden, and threaten to sit out the election or vote third party.
Biden only won those states last time by 10,000 votes each.
Blue states have 226 electoral votes and will vote for Kamala.
Red States have 235 electoral votes and will vote for Trump
There are only five swing states this election, AZ with 10 electoral Votes, NV with 6, Michigan with 15, PA with 19, WI with 11.. do the math
Mich,PA, WI, because of Muslims and black males, will go for Trump, because their loyalty is to the Ummah (google it), before anything else.
Well you’ve surely been thinking about this for some time . But not very clearly .
You are projecting Patricia.
William, send him more fast food!
William Thank you again for your condescending lecture. I do so love them . I’m my humble opinion, Joe Biden is the best most experienced man for the job . If you go over the words said by Biden and the words said by Trump , it’s not hard to see Biden as superior presidential material , even when not feeling well.
This absolute jump to ‘ sit Biden down’ Plays right into the hands of Maga instruments , such as the once too often Biased New York Times. I ‘ve cancelled that subscription. Biden is an elderly man , but he has not lost his touch with reality. He knows the job he’s done very well at the job . But any minute now he’ll probably no longer know anything . Please .
Appearances in this country seem to dominate common sense.
Joe Biden has in the past few weeks flown to and from many time zones . He is also attending to the campaign and his family . He cares about people . It shows . You all thinking to replace Biden apparently do not remember 1968
. The last time this hyper reactivity made the decision to place a new individial the position to become the presidential candidate . How did that work out for the Democrats ?
Not well.
I think it should be noted that sometimes we can learn from history .
Who do all you people have in mind to run in Bidens place ? I’m sure the transition would be smooth . Not . The chaos in this country , the Rogue Supreme Court , Trump the destroyer. Pawn of Putin .
Leave it alone . Biden is the best man for the job .
Gees you take everything so personal.
The election is not about, but preserving our democracy, our declining liberties.
100% THIS
This was just one more example of the American obsession with form over substance. Trump is all form, and most of it lies, delivered with an aura of strength and confidence that masks the lack of substance and lies. We need a president who can work consistently for the American people, not a polished reality TV phony. I don’t require a president who is a smooth (lying) orator, I need to know my president understands our situation, who surrounds himself with competent experts and who will listen to good advice. Sorry folks, I am not fooled by MAGA lies and bullying.
Last night the Governor of California did an outstanding job of analyzing last night’s debate.
He’s extremely knowledgeable intelligent and a fantastic debatir. He may lack some international experience but as in every presidency he will be surrounded by experienced advisors
Thom, replacing Biden, based on his uncharacteristically poor performance, would be a major mistake. It would speak to a party that is remarkably insecure in its ability to lead and govern. Biden had an off-night. But he and the Democratic party can run effectively on his and their achievements and contrast them with the dysfunctional system that they inherited from Trump. This is the time for Democrats to double-down and not quit.
Elliott Blass
Elliott as I responded to Patricia Lang. The only question is what is the best way, what has to be done to keep Trump out of power so he doesn't initiated Project 2025 and Agenda 47, all of this personal and personality stuff is irrelevant The only thing I care about is Trump staying TFG, and RFK, Cornell Est and Jill Stein driffing back into ignominy